Munkkys Vengeance Demon Hunter Guide UPDATED 7.3

[squirtlesquad]

2Raiz:
You are welcome As a little addition to all I've said, Vengeance have a great scaling from both ilvl and artifact traits, plus we don't need particular secondary stats, all are suitable and beneficial to some extent. So if you have some troubles now with either damage output or survivability - it'll all become much easier with gear. It is the case with any class or spec in wow, of course, but Vengeance scales a bit better.
2squirtlesquad:
That's why people take Fracture. Rotation becomes more interesting and you generate more shards and deal more damage.
P.S. Did +10 Arcway yesterday with 550k DPS overall. Dunno how that stands against other tanks in comparison, but I'm pretty satisfied.

Cant fracture without pain.
Gotta sit there and generate it, by the time i have enough to be useful. I ahve to make a choice between cleaving or fracturing.
If i cleave then im back to low pain and back to generating.

Only time i feel like im not constantly spamming shear is in high m+ where i'm getting hit really hard.

[DarkOsa]

Cant fracture without pain.
Gotta sit there and generate it, by the time i have enough to be useful. I ahve to make a choice between cleaving or fracturing.
If i cleave then im back to low pain and back to generating.

Only time i feel like im not constantly spamming shear is in high m+ where i'm getting hit really hard.

Well, it's not like you should spam Fracture all the time and when you want it, you really do need a lot of Pain for that. I can spam Fracture only on Heroic raid bosses and sometimes on Tyrannical bosses in M+. Most of the time you want to press something like Shear->Immo Aura->Fracture->Shear->Shear->Fracture.

[malcolmlu]

Since ES are physical damage, i see no reason why it does not.

[Raiz]

2Raiz:
You are welcome As a little addition to all I've said, Vengeance have a great scaling from both ilvl and artifact traits, plus we don't need particular secondary stats, all are suitable and beneficial to some extent. So if you have some troubles now with either damage output or survivability - it'll all become much easier with gear. It is the case with any class or spec in wow, of course, but Vengeance scales a bit better.
2squirtlesquad:
That's why people take Fracture. Rotation becomes more interesting and you generate more shards and deal more damage.
P.S. Did +10 Arcway yesterday with 550k DPS overall. Dunno how that stands against other tanks in comparison, but I'm pretty satisfied.

Didn't realize you needed to soak magic damage in order to receive the buff... In other words, my dps is still sh.t compared to all the other tanks. Thanks for the advice though, but I think I won't be playing this class for a while.

[ghostomc]

So at this point I'm guessing that will not be getting any changes. Super disappointed.

[Oiysters]

So at this point I'm guessing that will not be getting any changes. Super disappointed.

I'm hoping we can't say that quite yet. Still six weeks or more until 7.2.5, right?

[ghostomc]

I'm hoping we can't say that quite yet. Still six weeks or more until 7.2.5, right?

I hope your right but from what I've seen in the past then changes would have been made already to test on ptr.

[Oiysters]

Hard to argue with that.

[DarkOsa]

So at this point I'm guessing that will not be getting any changes. Super disappointed.

Uh, do we need any changes? I'm happy with what we have now, fellow VDHs can even kill Mythic Gul'dan, as we saw on the previous forum page. Huge improvement over on how weak the spec was at the start of the expansion. Right now we are more than viable, and I don't think Blizzard will give us more buffs, especially with Guardian and Brewmaster adjustments.

[diachroniko]

There's a number of mechanical issues people have with the spec as well. Shear spam is a pretty commonly mentioned one. Aside from the buffs we will likely still need if the patch goes live as is, I feel like they should at least work on the feel of the spec a bit.

Edit: Remember that everyone has been saying that vengeance can clear the content this entire time. The problem is that they are almost objectively the worst tank for the job in nighthold. Yes they can do it, but with much more effort and difficulties than other tanks, especially bear/monk/pally. I took almost 80 guilds killing M Gul'dan for a VDH to be in a guild-first kill iirc. The fact is that vengeance is worse than the other tanks, even if they're not bad in a vacuum.

[Deleted]

Uh, do we need any changes? I'm happy with what we have now, fellow VDHs can even kill Mythic Gul'dan, as we saw on the previous forum page. Huge improvement over on how weak the spec was at the start of the expansion. Right now we are more than viable, and I don't think Blizzard will give us more buffs, especially with Guardian and Brewmaster adjustments.

While we're definitely okay (and I would say a bit underrated), there are issues with the spec that ties more into playability than actual viability (although, both could be improved). Either increasing the pain granted by Shear, or reducing the cost of Soul Cleave (keeping Fracture the same at 40) would let us pool and use pain more freely, rather than being tied down for long periods of time between cleaves, and having at most 2 cleaves from a full bar, that heals very little of our actual health bar unless they crit (which is also an issue, the healing in raids is severely lacking when compared to Frenzied Regeneration's scaling from damage taken f.e.).

Having haste tie into our magic defense by either reducing the cooldown on Empower Wards (as I believe Munkky has suggested) or granting Demon Spikes a magic damage reducing element would free up our stat priority as well, as versatility>everything else is slightly dull. If Tomb ends up favoring physical damage over magic though, then this becomes less of an issue, and mastery/haste will still have a high value.

Additionally, we're rather stripped for cooldowns, and granting us two charges on Metamorphosis, perhaps with shorter duration to compensate (10 seconds perhaps), which would also increase the value of our new trait, which is always helpful: most of our traits are not particularly good.

That being said, I'm rather happy with the spec as a whole, as long as you're tanking hard content, the pain does flow in rather nicely, and the mobility is amazing, which lets us do all kinds of off-tanking duties very efficiently (Elisande, Gul'dan).

[Lucrece]

I'm really underwhelmed with the paragon traits, but that isn't new for this spec as most of the artifact traits are trash.

[Temp name]

I'm really underwhelmed with the paragon traits, but that isn't new for this spec as most of the artifact traits are trash.

I mean, before 7.2 the paragon traits were even more boring.

[ghostomc]

did everyone give up?

[diachroniko]

Nothing to talk about. Most questions are asked in one of the discords. No real news lately. Thread will be more active closer to 7.2.5 probably.

[Tech614]

did everyone give up?

Nothing has changed in a long time. Discussions won't become a serious thing until changes happen/new gear comes out/new content comes out. Until then all you get is the rare alt, offspec or reroll asking for advice every now and then.

[Semperfi1982]

Hi there, I've got 9/10 of the tanking legendarys now with the only one missing being the defilers lost vambraces (wrist). At the moment I'm using the trinket and prydaz. Question is should these be used together?

[DarkOsa]

They shouldn't. There is detailed comment on wowhead about this combination (on Archimonde's Hatred Reborn comments page), and long story short Prydaz shield supersedes trinket's shield if they are active at the same time, and considering 10s AHR shield duration, it's unlikely it will absorb all the damage, because 1 mil Prydaz shield always comes first. This combination does have some sense though if you are going in a very high M+ key with incredibly well geared group, like 915+ equipped and want to pull more mobs in Fortified than you normally do; in this situation I assume both shields may be fully utilized.

[Malynd]

I used the Trinket+Prydaz while tanking Mythic Gul'dan for some extra survivability during P1/2, but that's the only time that I've ever used Prydaz. Most of the time I use Cindaria+Trinket and have pretty good results.

[Ergar]

IT'S HAPPENING. New spirit bomb seems kinda sweet, really looking forward to trying it.