Seeing tanks out heal healers makes healing feel really bad

[Heladys]

Do you still have a job healing the tank so he doesn't fall over? Yes? Good, then shut up and do that and stop worrying about the meters.

[Daffan]

It just happens because healers don't have to do anything sometimes.

[Deleted]

If I wanted to DPS I woulda picked DPS in LFD......

Tank Out heals Healer usually ends in tanks yelling SUCK IT UP
Tank Out DPS a DPS and Tanks usually yell SUCK IT UP
Healer/DPS able to mitigate Damage and Tanks scream for bloody murder.

Honestly never seen that last part. My raidleader tank usually just screams at dps not mitigating the damage that they should.

Like someone else posted before, I prefer the Holy Triage. Tank is there to Keep aggro. They don't NEED Damage to keep aggro just up the threat more.
But I've had to change with the times because it's what the Elite want.

That would require them to make skittish pretty much baseline and rework tank kits to have threat/mitigation trade offs. I don't have any issues with that but I don't think many dps would like to go back to "hold damage till third sunder" again. In the current design it would be terrible to just take away tanks and healers option to damage, because that would pretty much lock you into off-specs for world quests, which sucks. And if you made threat the only thing tanks were there for with the current multipliers, most tanks could go autoattack afk. That is terrible gameplay and would make the tank population go rapidly towards 0.

If there is nothing you can do to improve your performance, that sucks. That is why the old threat model was bad, because tank threat was the cap for dps and took away from the dps gameplay, and it is also why a "threat only" mode of gameplay would suck with the current multipliers, because the difference between a mediocre and a great tank would be, that the latter could perform just as well while making coffee for the rest of the raid.

[barackohmama]

Of course tanks out heal healers in dungeons, because there is like no damage taken and their heals are often self instant. Come back when you see tanks outheal healers in mythic raids. It's the same with tanks out dpsing dps. It can be done in easy content with lots of trash and the dps is slightly undergeared, but in higher m+ with tyrannical and in raids? no

Besides if tank out heals you it probably means your healing is not that needed for the moment and you should learn to dps

[Mintra]

Thanks god tanks are pretty much self-sustainable. If I had to spam heal them, I wouldn't have time to heal the party. I have enough self esteem to not to worry about tank hps. The more the better.
I also love out-dpsing everyone in lol-heroic or M-0 as a heal

[Marrilaife]

Also that makes healers much better role to queue for extra satchels, you can go semi afk in a heroic dungeon or lfr and no one will have an issue, can't do the same on tank.

[Etamalgren]

Also that makes healers much better role to queue for extra satchels, you can go semi afk in a heroic dungeon or lfr and no one will have an issue, can't do the same on tank.

Not really, since with a ridiculously overgeared tank, you can just pull 90% of the instance and mow it all down by yourself while pulling 2m+ dps and 500k HPS, even though the entire rest of the group is dead because the healer spent their time picking their nose or something.

[Riistov]

Do harder content, you can definitely go oom on longer fights, especially if you don't get any outside buffs like innervate and wisdom.

Yeah man, healing Mythic Il'gynoth was ridiculous in terms of going OOM. SO much damage going out the entire fight, Helya was like that too.

Plenty of mana intensive fights in NH as well at the Mythic level.

[Marrilaife]

Not really, since with a ridiculously overgeared tank, you can just pull 90% of the instance and mow it all down by yourself while pulling 2m+ dps and 500k HPS, even though the entire rest of the group is dead because the healer spent their time picking their nose or something.

Well last time I went to lfr for healer satchel on my shaman I'm mainspec ele but I actually specced resto 2 out of 4 healers were dps in dps spec, we had 2 healers total one of which was my alt on offspec and with barely any idea what I'm doing except "spam chain heal and press random buttons" and no one noticed anything.

I remember also being in lfr on my resto druid when I was typing a convo with a friend so half the time I was typing half the time throwing random hots and again no one noticed anything, we didn't wipe etc.

Can't imagine being able to do the same on a tank.

I also remember doing EOA mythic0 for the balance of power quest on my DH tank and 2 people left, a dps and a healer, we had a rogue and a spriest left and we didn't wanna bother go all the way back to the entrance to summon new people if we replaced them, so we finished the instance with no healer. So if there was a healer but semi-afk, no one would notice if he barely did any healing.

Point is you don't really need to put much effort as a healer in low content, in mythic raiding or high m+ yes, but in low content it's an easy role to perform.

Yes, tanks can "solo" some dungeons but it's not always optimal to pull "90% of the instance", prime example are some packs in maw or eoa with healer mobs, unless you are confident they'll die in 1 stunlock or you can keep them 100% interrupted it's not good to pull too many of them together as you can't count on pugs interrupting and all the healing mobs will do is time wasted for nothing.

[beelgers]

So, what I get from some of the comments is:
1) Tanks shouldn't be able to do much damage
2) Tanks shouldn't be able to mitigate much damage

Then what are they supposed to do? Get threat, position the boss, and go make a sandwich? I've played that style and it wasn't fun.

It doesn't really matter though, because if you're doing current progression content (basically if your group isn't stupidly overgeared and your expectation of success isn't nearly 100%), then the tank isn't going to out heal or out DPS anyone unless the healers or DPS are terrible. At least that's the case barring anything cheesy like the Scorpyron door strat with defender.

[TofuBandita]

I agree, it feels pretty shit as a healer to do lower level content like Heroic dungeons, or lower Mythic dungeons and raids, and feel like there's no point in you being there unless someone happens to screw up. I try to make a game of seeing how much I can dps, but it feels pretty worthless compared to the tank who can mass pull everything, self-heal/mitigate it all, and out dps many of the dps too. That's just the nature of it when you out gear things I guess, you're just a support/back up. You just gotta suck up how it makes you feel, or roll a tank.

[ellemeno]

As a healer, I don't see this happen much outside of normal/heroic dungeons, and I really think it's just due to most people outgearing that content. And even then, it's typically DK or Warrior I see creeping up or passing on the heal meters, and AFAIK that's just how they play: loads of self-heal/leech/mitigation. Try not to take it too personal, be clutch when needed, and dps when healing need is low. A lot of times your group will be grateful for the extra dps (even if it feels tiny), things will die that much faster, and dungeons get completed <3

[Etamalgren]

Well last time I went to lfr for healer satchel on my shaman I'm mainspec ele but I actually specced resto 2 out of 4 healers were dps in dps spec, we had 2 healers total one of which was my alt on offspec and with barely any idea what I'm doing except "spam chain heal and press random buttons" and no one noticed anything.

I remember also being in lfr on my resto druid when I was typing a convo with a friend so half the time I was typing half the time throwing random hots and again no one noticed anything, we didn't wipe etc.

Can't imagine being able to do the same on a tank.

I also remember doing EOA mythic0 for the balance of power quest on my DH tank and 2 people left, a dps and a healer, we had a rogue and a spriest left and we didn't wanna bother go all the way back to the entrance to summon new people if we replaced them, so we finished the instance with no healer. So if there was a healer but semi-afk, no one would notice if he barely did any healing.

Point is you don't really need to put much effort as a healer in low content, in mythic raiding or high m+ yes, but in low content it's an easy role to perform.

Yes, tanks can "solo" some dungeons but it's not always optimal to pull "90% of the instance", prime example are some packs in maw or eoa with healer mobs, unless you are confident they'll die in 1 stunlock or you can keep them 100% interrupted it's not good to pull too many of them together as you can't count on pugs interrupting and all the healing mobs will do is time wasted for nothing.

...I forgot LFR can give call to arms satchels. Whoops.
Yeah, queuing as heals while in guardian spec for LFR might be a bit harder to pull off, considering we run oom after 5 regrowths.

[Marrilaife]

...I forgot LFR can give call to arms satchels. Whoops.
Yeah, queuing as heals while in guardian spec for LFR might be a bit harder to pull off, considering we run oom after 5 regrowths.

Well those who queue as healer for lfr satchel in dps / tank spec aren't healing and majority of the time no one notices they're in the "wrong spec" and not healing because there isn't much to heal, unless you wipe then people might start looking for someone to blame (I'd assume if all healers did this would be a problem). If someone queues as tank and is afk / not tanking it's way easier to spot.

Also as tank if you have no clue you can pull a derp and get yelled at (like tanking the adds too close on Odyn / Star Augur).

So healer is the ultimate perfect role for slacking in easy content, fast queues, free satchels and not much work. In hard content, well, everyone needs to work, I've seen tons of complains how healing is the most stressful role in high m+ but that's mostly the case where the healer is compensating for other roles' bad play, I mean it's hard to do great dps while dodging all the fires and coordinating cc at the same time while it's "easy" to just tunnel and expect the healer to heal through everything. In the first case the dungeon is appropriately challenging for all roles while in the second case it's harder for healer than the rest.

[Stormspellz]

same situation of healers vs old disc, nothing to heal when everything gets absorbed first

[Volitar]

Yeah healers have kind of been pushed into a weird situation in recent xpacs. You run as few healers as possible and if possible none. For example when Star Auger was ballcrushingly difficult the top guilds that killed it 2 healed it on progression which is nuts. Many mythic plus groups will run no healer for things under 10 simply because its more efficient. Hell even last xpac when we were selling challenge modes we didn't use a healer and we were 4manning them with the buyer completely afk if they wanted to be.

[Better]

As a veng DH if I'm just doing a random heroic for AP/satchel I generally won't take any real damage. Soul Barrier/Pyridaz just eats it all even on larger pulls. In any situation which I'm taking more total damage than the rest of the group a healer won't possibly have a chance to outheal me, just due to how absorbs work (unless they can snipe the absorb with a smaller one).

This is just one of those things that gear does, you can't really nerf it because on the highest end Veng isn't currently overperforming or anything. Our mechanics just make us really good at trivial content

[Deleted]

If I wanted to DPS I woulda picked DPS in LFD......

Tank Out heals Healer usually ends in tanks yelling SUCK IT UP
Tank Out DPS a DPS and Tanks usually yell SUCK IT UP
Healer/DPS able to mitigate Damage and Tanks scream for bloody murder.

What? You do realise that DPS and healers most of the time have better DR cooldowns than tanks. Many classes have outright 100% DR. Mages and rogues for example. A Boomkin druid has more Armor DR than I do as a Blood DK.

Back in MoP Tanks did damage and DPS cried and complained and it got removed. Back in WoD healers complained they weren't healing tanks enough and very good tank players were too self sufficient and it got removed.

Now most tanks rely on healers heavily to actually survive. Most of our DR cooldowns have been gutted and most of the time the only reason a tank is high on healing is because of absorbs and you fuckers are still complaining. This is probably the lowest tank DPS has even been. Most tanks sit around 300k-400k DPS depending on the fight, with warriors being able to push 500k on Krosus, but that is still only 50% of an actual DPS. Back in HFC I was only 20k-30k behind an actual DPS.

[Sliske]

I've been seeing so many tanks out healing healers, or healing in comparison to.
particularly in dungeons. it makes healing feel really crummy.

this only occurs in trivial content, because trivial content doesn't hurt the party and the only healing being done is absorbs that most tanks have for themselves

On high group damage, my prot paladin can pull maybe 350k hps

[Deleted]

What? You do realise that DPS and healers most of the time have better DR cooldowns than tanks. Many classes have outright 100% DR. Mages and rogues for example. A Boomkin druid has more Armor DR than I do as a Blood DK.

Back in MoP Tanks did damage and DPS cried and complained and it got removed. Back in WoD healers complained they weren't healing tanks enough and very good tank players were too self sufficient and it got removed.

Now most tanks rely on healers heavily to actually survive. Most of our DR cooldowns have been gutted and most of the time the only reason a tank is high on healing is because of absorbs and you fuckers are still complaining. This is probably the lowest tank DPS has even been. Most tanks sit around 300k-400k DPS depending on the fight, with warriors being able to push 500k on Krosus, but that is still only 50% of an actual DPS. Back in HFC I was only 20k-30k behind an actual DPS.

as blood dk in wod i could (aslong breath was running) do dmg about same as lower dps or just lower geared players.