Legion lore.. really isn't that great.

[purebalance]

"legion lore is bad" says the people who couldnt create better

let's see where it goes before we judge the entire expansion based on one full content patch

Oh is this another one of those "If you think you can write better lore go apply" when that is such a fallacious response and honestly even if you aren't implying that you have no clue if people here could make better lore or not.

[Gadzooks]

(arthas killed no one in wow).

Tell that to his father, the citizens of Stratholme, and the mercenaries he had killed when he arrived in Northrend. Once a death knight, all he did was kill, even with his own hands. To say Arthas killed no-one in WoW is to be completely oblivious of the character and his story. He's responsible for more death than any other human character in the game. (Not to mention the only human villian we've faced since vanilla)

[roahn the warlock]

"legion lore is bad" says the people who couldnt create better

let's see where it goes before we judge the entire expansion based on one full content patch

Here is what I would have done. Place the Tomb of Sargeras on the opposite side of the map of Suramar. Have the legion blast right through the entire map towards Suramar and show this huge force and destruction. Because the Legion only wanted the Nightwell, they coulod have ignored Azuna, Highmountain, Stormheim, and just really fucked up Suramar and a little bit of each zone. (Think the scar in Silvermoon/MoP on a large scale).

Already this makes the map feel much bigger because you've devoted a huge part of the map to just this massive war machine that marched to Suramar to take it from Elisande. You see it every time you fly to another area to get the citizens of the Broken Isles to team up to help. And once we get done the amazing Suramar campaign. We actually start to push through the Legion Scar to get to the Broken Isles which is so heavily fortified by this point there's no way to break in.

At this point 7.2 is about figuring out a way to get into the Broken Isles. and using the combigned might of all the factions and a questline empower Dalaran to become a weapon to break the front and storm the Tomb of Sargeras. At this point the Legion is forced to retreat to Argus where we follow them and spank them around some. (The scar would be on the scale of Tanaan jungle. A large zone with huge legion military camps that we can attack with the aid of the Isle members. )

There, I made it better.

Bonus round. Elisande actually saw the only way to save her people was to betray them. And knew that by allowing Guldan in he would be vulnerable. In this Elisande sacrifices herself and her people so The First Arcanist and the adventurers have the chance to kill Guldan. This adds weight to her character. And calls into question if she made the right decision. Causing the genocide of many of her people in order to save at least some of them. After this, The First Arcanist, instead of automatially just saying Elisande was evil and destroying the nightwell, uses it's power now against the legion to create a super portal past the defences of the broken isles and the "Scar" so a small team can storm the tomb and kill Sargeras. (Or to empower Dalaran and the mages)

Blizzard hire me.

[Silver Forte]

I love the lore, then again I'm not a cynical asshole.

[Dagoth Ur]

snip

My theory is they don't wanna represent Legion grim and dark is because they're saving it for Void expansion. That's probably where they're gonna go full dark and depressive. I personally like Legion as villains better than Void and will not be happy if Legion is sacrificed just so Void could feel more like the ultimate threat (even though they are). Legion conflict feels much more personal IMO and even though demons are represented really bland so far I think you can show more emotions with them then with voidwalkers, voidreavers or void-whatever. Not saying I don't like Void stuff just I don't think they're as good frontman villain material, they're always better when behind the scenes whispering, being creppy, mysterious etc etc. Legion arc is something started in RTS games and I expected they're gonna want to end it with more passion and creativity, then transition to Void stuff.

[FelPlague]

Have you? traditionally in lore when you killed Onyxia, it wasn't really you. Arthas was killed by Tirion, Deathwing was killed by Thrall, Kil Jaden was killed by Kalecgos, so on so forth.

yes, you helped, you did not allways land the killing blow, but like with alot of bosses it was not "you" it was "X person and a group of adventurers"

[lightofdawn]

Here is what I would have done. Place the Tomb of Sargeras on the opposite side of the map of Suramar. Have the legion blast right through the entire map towards Suramar and show this huge force and destruction. Because the Legion only wanted the Nightwell, they coulod have ignored Azuna, Highmountain, Stormheim, and just really fucked up Suramar and a little bit of each zone. (Think the scar in Silvermoon/MoP on a large scale).

Already this makes the map feel much bigger because you've devoted a huge part of the map to just this massive war machine that marched to Suramar to take it from Elisande. You see it every time you fly to another area to get the citizens of the Broken Isles to team up to help. And once we get done the amazing Suramar campaign. We actually start to push through the Legion Scar to get to the Broken Isles which is so heavily fortified by this point there's no way to break in.

At this point 7.2 is about figuring out a way to get into the Broken Isles. and using the combigned might of all the factions and a questline empower Dalaran to become a weapon to break the front and storm the Tomb of Sargeras. At this point the Legion is forced to retreat to Argus where we follow them and spank them around some. (The scar would be on the scale of Tanaan jungle. A large zone with huge legion military camps that we can attack with the aid of the Isle members. )

There, I made it better.

Bonus round. Elisande actually saw the only way to save her people was to betray them. And knew that by allowing Guldan in he would be vulnerable. In this Elisande sacrifices herself and her people so The First Arcanist and the adventurers have the chance to kill Guldan. This adds weight to her character. And calls into question if she made the right decision. Causing the genocide of many of her people in order to save at least some of them. After this, The First Arcanist, instead of automatially just saying Elisande was evil and destroying the nightwell, uses it's power now against the legion to create a super portal past the defences of the broken isles and the "Scar" so a small team can storm the tomb and kill Sargeras. (Or to empower Dalaran and the mages)

Blizzard hire me.

that isnt better. and the legion doesnt only want the nightwell. congratulations

- - - Updated - - -

Oh is this another one of those "If you think you can write better lore go apply" when that is such a fallacious response and honestly even if you aren't implying that you have no clue if people here could make better lore or not.

considering if they could they would offer actual suggestions (like the guy who tried in the other thing i replied to. wasnt better, but he tried)

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

What lore? Metzen retired, wow lore is dead and buried.

[Jastall]

The only thing that bothers me is how the Burning Legion is represented as bunch of one-liner threat yelling morons. These are the guys that conquered all known universe and so far they're represented as unintelligent brutes. To think that Burning Legion, which consists of god knows how many species, encompasses who knows how many planets and has techonology that no race on Azeroth can match, is losing everywhere and that their biggest invasion ever is confined to one tiny island is ridiculous. Also considering their numbers, the fact that they don't have a single intelligent demon (except Kil'Jaeden) who can match up to Khaghar, Velen and Illidan and us heroes is laughable.

I think this expansion should've been a little more grim and atmosphere of hopelessness and survival should've been more emphasized. They literally turned the most feared enemy from war3 into laughing stock.
The fights that should've felt more personal and intense, for example Tichondrius - is made like you're fighting any other dreadlord, not the one who literally orchestrated the fall of Lorderaon by himself. etc etc

Overall I really like Legion's lore just not happy how Burning Legion is represented as stupid and brutish. I know playes like to feel heroic and losing is lame, but come on expect for Broken shore we are pwning Legion left and right. And it looks like it's gonna continue in Tomb of Sargeras...

The Legion has always been like that, however. Lore says they are extraordinarily dangerous galactic conquerors, in-game they just are yet another mustache-twirling xp and gear fodder. Even in WC3 it was the Scourge that did most of the killing and was portrayed as a real threat. Archimonde waves his hands to destroy a city (and not even permanently) then he slightly devalues the real estate of Ashenvale and Felwood before getting rekt by wisps. All the while the demons are portrayed as little more than brutes, with Archimonde himself behaving like the most cliché villain ever, such as when he gets pissed off and kills his underlings or taunts the heroes instead of killing them.

Really it's inevitable. The players will win, every time. At worst we get Pyrrhic victories, but even against the Scourge and Old Gods we always won. The one time we technically didn't (against the Lich King) Blizzard ass-pulled one of the stupidest plot devices ever so that we did.

[Dagoth Ur]

The Legion has always been like that, however. Lore says they are extraordinarily dangerous galactic conquerors, in-game they just are yet another mustache-twirling xp and gear fodder. Even in WC3 it was the Scourge that did most of the killing and was portrayed as a real threat. Archimonde waves his hands to destroy a city (and not even permanently) then he slightly devalues the real estate of Ashenvale and Felwood before getting rekt by wisps. All the while the demons are portrayed as little more than brutes, with Archimonde himself behaving like the most cliché villain ever, such as when he gets pissed off and kills his underlings or taunts the heroes instead of killing them.

Really it's inevitable. The players will win, every time. At worst we get Pyrrhic victories, but even against the Scourge and Old Gods we always won. The one time we technically didn't (against the Lich King) Blizzard ass-pulled one of the stupidest plot devices ever so that we did.

I don't know, I really loved how Legion was represented in war3. For example look at these cinematics. Burning Legion shows more intelligence here then in entirety of WoW:

- Planing to dispatch Cenarius before invasion begins
- Using orcs bloodlust to do it for them
- Don't need to say how in these cinematics they actually talk like human beings (lol), i mean they can say more then two sentences without saying doom and burn even once!!!

[Mehrunes]

"legion lore is bad" says the people who couldnt create better

let's see where it goes before we judge the entire expansion based on one full content patch

So if you can't cook well you can't complain if you get a bad dish in a restaurant?

you mean how guldan killed varian and we didnt get to touch him for about 6 months?
or how arthas killed saurfang and it took us almost a year to get to kill the lich king for it?
or how garrosh did so much fucked up stuff and it took us easily 7 months t think from when he nearly killed anduin? or from when he killed cairne.
or how kiljaden forced velen to kill his own son and we wont get to kill him till about 9 months after?
or how sylvanas killed liam, and we still dont have revenge on her? (i mean genn tech did, fucking 8 years later)


here is the issue with information bias. wants to make a point so they ignore every example they can

And you went in the other direction. Garrosh wasn't a villain when he killed Cairne and that kill wasn't done in any malicious or villainous way. Velen's son wasn't a hero. Sylvanas isn't a villain.

They did it for Deathwing - oh, right, they still havent repaired a lot of the damage from that. Granted, they didn't have the phasing tech yet.

WoW has phasing tech since 3.0.

[Toppy]

Something has become obvious to me as I've seen Warcraft grow. I've been around from the start and I feel this change happened around Cataclysm. Prior to Cataclysm there was more world building. Things were being fit together. Yes we didnt have our "heroes" (like Thrall or Malfurion) doing much, but we also had a lot more side characters. Races were being fleshed out, and it was more about the whole rather than individuals. Then Cata came and attention shifted to hero worship, but only certain heroes, and often their own race itself. So Cata we had lots of Thrall, and lots of Orcs. MoP came and we had lots of Garrosh (and Orcs) but also a good bit of Varian (and humans).

See, there is no real story balance. When it comes down to it, the blizzard writers only want THEIR favorites to be doing anything. MoP started with a fair bit of Pandaren stuff, when they were new and fresh on the devs mind, but it quickly focused back on Horde doings, and this was a time when we knew blizzard devs preferred Horde,
specifically Orcs (based on blizzcon "FUCK THE ALLIANCE"). It was so bad that the planned storyline for Varian (trials of the high king) was cut in half (though what we got was him shitting on his allied races, because humans number 1!). This focus went on to WoD, but the team working on WoW changed dramatically during WoD's development and they seem to prefer Elves and Alliance (specifically humans), so WoD was slapshod because they simply didn't care about the Orcs and now in Legion its all about elves and human, and the storyline we were going to get regarding Baine was cut, and Sylvaanas, the new Warchief goes ignored. They ever prepped a novel to absolve Illidan of all blame.

WoW went from world building to hero building. Everything is based on whomever blizzard likes the most at the time. One thing blizzard really likes is Odyn, which is why everyone, including those he backstabbed (the other watchers) grovel at his feet and can't stop kissing his ass. They even added some new lore for him in 7.2 that warriors can unlock detailing about how super amazing he is. It seems like one of the devs really liked him, saw the chronicles stuff about how he's a dick, and then proceeded to go "Ef that hes amazing and can do no wrong" so started adding stuff about how he's soooooo great. The lore continues to suffer since blizz will proudly proclaim story isnt a focus (they have it engraved on a giant statue ffs).

Warcraft is no longer a setting to be immersed in. The plot, the lore, everything will change at the drop of a hat to suit the newest favorite's needs. Most of the games races are ignored completely or simply replaced by whichever one blizzard favors (humans gryphon riders have replaced dwarven for instance). The devs stopped caring about the game being a world, and only care about making it suit their own wants.

[roahn the warlock]

that isnt better. and the legion doesnt only want the nightwell. congratulations

- - - Updated - - -



considering if they could they would offer actual suggestions (like the guy who tried in the other thing i replied to. wasnt better, but he tried)

uh, yeah, they only wanted the nightwell it use it's power to summon Sargeras into Illidan's body.

If you dont know the lore, maybe dont comment in a thread about it? Also nice rebuttal "It isn't better" Were you unable to come up with a reason why? No, because you're just an angry contrarian.

[Wildberry]

"legion lore is bad" says the people who couldnt create better

No.
"Legion lore is bad" says the people with an IQ above room temperature.

[Toppy]

No.
"Legion lore is bad" says the people with an IQ above room temperature.

Whadya mean? Such great lore!

• Demons cant really die unless you kill them in the right place, genius!
• Sylvanas not changing at all despite her new role!
• Highmountain Tauren being a collection if amnesiac's who dont seem to remember their shared enemy is a threat!
• Illidan is alive, no wait, he's dead, wait he's alive again, and did no wrong ever!
• Oh here comes Odyn, isn't he so great and has always been so great and everyone just knows how great he is even the people he betrayed who especially know he's great?!
• Velen had a son he forgot about and this will be important for all of one minute where it will have no bearing on the story!
• Malfurion and Cenarius are for some reason oddly ignorant of the Emerald Nightmare, lets have Tyrande run around screaming Malfurions name since he seems to have taken a blow to the head and caught the stupid!
• Suramar where Elisande made the difficult decision to let the demons in to save her people, then proceeded to murder them, men, women, children all, indiscriminately and without any sense of mercy or care!

Wondrous writing!

[Zayv]

WoW went from world building to hero building. Everything is based on whomever blizzard likes the most at the time. One thing blizzard really likes is Odyn, which is why everyone, including those he backstabbed (the other watchers) grovel at his feet and can't stop kissing his ass. They even added some new lore for him in 7.2 that warriors can unlock detailing about how super amazing he is. It seems like one of the devs really liked him, saw the chronicles stuff about how he's a dick, and then proceeded to go "Ef that hes amazing and can do no wrong" so started adding stuff about how he's soooooo great. The lore continues to suffer since blizz will proudly proclaim story isnt a focus (they have it engraved on a giant statue ffs).

I think you make some good points. Personally, I could not be anymore disinterested in WoW cutscenes. And I used to watch WC3 cutscenes on repeat. Part of it is the ultra-cartoonish graphics, another part is the storytelling is very poor outside raid cutscenes, meaning I have no real attachment to the characters involved. Reading quest text is a really lame way of telling a story.