I want to return but I have second thoughts

[Ared]

Hey guys

I want to come back after a long break but all I read is negative feedback on the forums. I'm a PVP player and I don't particularly enjoy PVE. Do I need to grind heavily to be able to competitive in PVP like people say? Do I need to do PVE to be able to do PVP? Or is WoW PVP still worth coming back at all?

Cheers!

[Knolan]

You don't HAVE to play PVE to compete, but people who do play PVE will have way more artifact power than you which will give them a slight advantage.

Also, pve will give you far better gear for far less effort, which will be an advantage up to the point you get to the max ilvl pvp allows.

As for the state of PVP, I don't really enjoy it, a lot of skill have been removed from the game which reduces the opportunities to outplay your enemies, but you will have to play it and decide by yourself.

[Bearilla]

You don't HAVE to play PVE to compete, but people who do play PVE will have way more artifact power than you which will give them a slight advantage.

Also, pve will give you far better gear for far less effort, which will be an advantage up to the point you get to the max ilvl pvp allows.

Think these statements are a tad contradictory.

Yes, you will need to pve if you want the best advantage. You must grind high ilvl gear, artifact power, resources (to purchase the second leg spot) and honor (the only item you pvp for). The best way to grind is world quests (pve) and dungeons/raids (pve).

No, you do not HAVE to pve but you are going to be in a bad spot if you don't. Can only get high ilvl gear if you are high ranked in rated and then it is RNG. Dragon slayers are going into pvp with a significant advantage and if you haven't been keeping up on the grind you will be stomped.

I feel all of these items (and yes the 10% stat increase) gives players a HUGE advantage over fresh/lazy 110s who have not been grinding (more dmg, hp and abilities).

[Knolan]

Think these statements are a tad contradictory.

Yes, you will need to pve if you want the best advantage. You must grind high ilvl gear, artifact power, resources (to purchase the second leg spot) and honor (the only item you pvp for). The best way to grind is world quests (pve) and dungeons/raids (pve).

No, you do not HAVE to pve but you are going to be in a bad spot if you don't. Can only get high ilvl gear if you are high ranked in rated and then it is RNG. Dragon slayers are going into pvp with a significant advantage and if you haven't been keeping up on the grind you will be stomped.

I feel all of these items (and yes the 10% stat increase) gives players a HUGE advantage over fresh/lazy 110s who have not been grinding (more dmg, hp and abilities).

Well, I only considered PVE things like raiding and dungeons (in this case things that you have to do exclusively). I didn't count world quests while in the BG queues as PVE.

Doing only Random BGs and world quest I had 880 ilvl last season, if I was doing rated arenas/RBG I would very likely had ilvl 900 by the end of the season.

[Bearilla]

Well, I only considered PVE things like raiding and dungeons (in this case things that you have to do exclusively). I didn't count world quests while in the BG queues as PVE.

Doing only Random BGs and world quest I had 880 ilvl last season, if I was doing rated arenas/RBG I would very likely had ilvl 900 by the end of the season.

That is a pretty great ilvl for only random bgs and WQs. I took about a 6month break because all I could get from WQ was ~840 gear. Now that I am back I am seeing they have updated loot which is great BUT I am still only 865 and NO legendaries yet.

WQs are definitely a pve grind. I do the same thing while waiting for bg queues but it doesn't make them any less pve oriented.

[Krusza]

Hey guys

I want to come back after a long break but all I read is negative feedback on the forums. I'm a PVP player and I don't particularly enjoy PVE. Do I need to grind heavily to be able to competitive in PVP like people say? Do I need to do PVE to be able to do PVP? Or is WoW PVP still worth coming back at all?

Cheers!

You don't have to PvE.

Gear hardly matters because of stat templating, and you can get good gear from PvP once you start getting around 2kish rating, which is easy enough.

The only thing that sets you back really is your traits. You don't have to raid or anything - you can get a lot of artifact power from world quests.

[Knolan]

That is a pretty great ilvl for only random bgs and WQs. I took about a 6month break because all I could get from WQ was ~840 gear. Now that I am back I am seeing they have updated loot which is great BUT I am still only 865 and NO legendaries yet.

WQs are definitely a pve grind. I do the same thing while waiting for bg queues but it doesn't make them any less pve oriented.

I got both my legendaries doing the WQ dailies, but fine, if you consider it as PVE, then some PVE will be needed to gather Order Hall Resources to get the second legendary slot. You can also get a legendary from PVP but it is quite rare. I played at least one BG a day, mostly three and a lot of times with my friends and I saw one legendary drop.

Oh, you will also need to do some PVE to get your third relic and to open the extra artifact abilities.

You don't have to PvE.

Gear hardly matters because of stat templating, and you can get good gear from PvP once you start getting around 2kish rating, which is easy enough.

The only thing that sets you back really is your traits. You don't have to raid or anything - you can get a lot of artifact power from world quests.

I am not sure how the template is right now, but I am think there was a 10% difference last season from a full geared person to a new player, not to mention the Artifact progression.

You should also consider that 2k rating isn't really that low... it is more than enough to get a Rival title (top 90%).

[Ethidia]

I am not sure how the template is right now, but I am think there was a 10% difference last season from a full geared person to a new player, not to mention the Artifact progression.

You should also consider that 2k rating isn't really that low... it is more than enough to get a Rival title (top 90%).

The template scales people up to ilvl 900.

[SupBrah]

Don't listen to these some of these guys telling you that you're screwed without gear... Gear literally only matters in world PVP. In instanced PVP (BGs, arena, RBGs, Brawls, etc), players are given "templates" which basically means everyone is given the same type of stats. That warrior who's one-shotting n00bs with his 920 Draught of Souls can't do that in arena or bgs.

Sure, you want to have at least 34 traits in your weapon so you get all the benefits from your artifact, but Blizz has added catchup mechanics in that you can get Artifact Knowledge 26 (instant 25 through work orders and then the elven tome for 26) almost right away (artifact knowledge levels boost the amount of artifact power you get). At AK26, you can get the 35 traits you need and empower your weapon in just a couple of hours.

With that said, template stats are increased based on your ilvl (not by much, but they are), so you DO want to increase your ilvl as much as possible. With that said, high ilvl is super easy to get nowadays. You can't buy pvp gear anymore though, it's all from RNG crates from winning PVP matches and sometimes PVP world quests. Blizz allows you to buy 880 token pieces for 5000 nethershards, and literally everything can titanforge (an 870 PVP piece can literally titanforge all the way to 920 if you're really lucky).

The main thing that would hinder you at first is honor talents. Honor now goes into unlocking talents, rather than buying stuff. Luckily, though, blizz has recently nerfed the amount of honor needed to reach Prestiege 1 (that's a different topic, but not important right now, as prestieging doesn't really affect your ability to PVP)


With all that said, I won't lie. PvP has kinda become stagnant to some, including myself. PvP brawls are def a breath of fresh air, but I still feel something... missing. I've gotten to 2k before, but i've never really been that big of a PvPer though so your mileage may vary. IMO I think blizz screwed up in 3 areas for PvP:

1.) The ability pruning. Classes feel less... diversified since we lost half of our abilities. Honor talents help this sometime, but most honor talents are passive effects that are usually better than the ability talent.

2.) Nothing new added for PvPers. Yes, PvP Brawls are now out, but they came out in 7.2, like 7 or 8 months after Legion launched. PvPers didn't have anything new for months, and it made many bitter. Blizz already has a reputation for castrating PvPers in favor of PvEers, and this didn't help that assumption.


3.) Removing gear vendors. It's great that Blizz has started to try and make gear less important for PVP, but I honestly miss the excitement of knowing I can FINALLY buy that beastly PVP weapon, or the feeling I got when I finally got my tier set. That just isn't there anymore. Now it's all RNG, and I think many people are just burned out with literally everything being RNG.


tl;dr: Best advise I can give you is to try it out and see for yourself. Gear won't really hinder you though, so don't worry, and Blizz has added quite a few catch up mechanics to the game.

[Bearilla]

Don't listen to these some of these guys telling you that you're screwed without gear... Gear literally only matters in world PVP. In instanced PVP (BGs, arena, RBGs, Brawls, etc), players are given "templates" which basically means everyone is given the same type of stats. That warrior who's one-shotting n00bs with his 920 Draught of Souls can't do that in arena or bgs.

tl;dr: Best advise I can give you is to try it out and see for yourself. Gear won't really hinder you though, so don't worry, and Blizz has added quite a few catch up mechanics to the game.

You honestly believe that a geared out player with max artifact and honor talents does not have a significant advantage over a player who just dinged 110 and is stepping into a bg? I hope you are joking.

Yes, gear matters for up to 10% stat difference. On top of that you have your artifact weapon that has very important talents, gives you more dmg and more HP. THEN you have honor talents which give you important talents.

Gear and artifact power do not HAVE to be obtained through pve (dungs, raids and WQ) BUT you are going to gain it much slower if all you are doing is casual pvp.

Honor talents are gained through pvp or pvp WQ (which are pretty much pve).

Sure, there are catchup mechanics in place for alts but I am not aware of any for fresh 110s. You cannot boost artifact knowledge as it will be his first 110.

[Maudib]

You have to PvE... period.

PvP reward system is nonexistent, PvP gear is nonexistent, PvP in general is nonexistent.

It's true that you can one button macro your toons in PvP... very little skill required... it's based more on how much PvE you do to gear and expands your weapon.

Holinka felt so insulted about people hating Ashran that he came up with this mess.

[Caolela]

You honestly believe that a geared out player with max artifact and honor talents does not have a significant advantage over a player who just dinged 110 and is stepping into a bg? I hope you are joking.

Yes, gear matters for up to 10% stat difference. On top of that you have your artifact weapon that has very important talents, gives you more dmg and more HP. THEN you have honor talents which give you important talents.

Gear and artifact power do not HAVE to be obtained through pve (dungs, raids and WQ) BUT you are going to gain it much slower if all you are doing is casual pvp.

Honor talents are gained through pvp or pvp WQ (which are pretty much pve).

Sure, there are catchup mechanics in place for alts but I am not aware of any for fresh 110s. You cannot boost artifact knowledge as it will be his first 110.

Absolutely correct.

It's pathetic how some people are STILL peddling the "gear doesn't matter!" mantra after all these months, and several threads have shown how that's total bullshit.

DRINK MORE BLIZZ KOOL-AID, FANBOYS. AFTER ALL, YOU'VE NOT BEEN PAID TO THINK HAVE YOU? *banghead

The only way that gear doesn't matter is your stats don't matter because there's nothing you can do about them - Blizz decides with generic templates what your toon does now.

Except for talents and AP lvl (which most will pick about the same anyway), you are a generic, cookie-cutter copy of every other one of your spec in an instance. But good news everyone! - you can still grind for more stupid xmog shit!1!!

And then of course there's the wonderful..."Random." Number. Generator. ...which Blizz sets at their whim to decide what you get and what you don't, and when.

And yes, new toons will be grinding their asses off in PvE, since just doing it in PvP will take MUCH longer AND the AP grind goes on indefinitely. Before Legion you could be full Honor in one or two evenings (with a couple of Conq items) and full or nearly full Conquest in a week with the catch-up cap.

Now everyone sing together: "We don't have rocks in our heads!!1!"

[Krusza]

Absolutely correct.

It's pathetic how some people are STILL peddling the "gear doesn't matter!" mantra after all these months, and several threads have shown how that's total bullshit.

DRINK MORE BLIZZ KOOL-AID, FANBOYS. AFTER ALL, YOU'VE NOT BEEN PAID TO THINK HAVE YOU? *banghead

The only way that gear doesn't matter is your stats don't matter because there's nothing you can do about them - Blizz decides with generic templates what your toon does now.

Except for talents and AP lvl (which most will pick about the same anyway), you are a generic, cookie-cutter copy of every other one of your spec in an instance. But good news everyone! - you can still grind for more stupid xmog shit!1!!

And then of course there's the wonderful..."Random." Number. Generator. ...which Blizz sets at their whim to decide what you get and what you don't, and when.

And yes, new toons will be grinding their asses off in PvE, since just doing it in PvP will take MUCH longer AND the AP grind goes on indefinitely. Before Legion you could be full Honor in one or two evenings (with a couple of Conq items) and full or nearly full Conquest in a week with the catch-up cap.

Now everyone sing together: "We don't have rocks in our heads!!1!"

Just because we say gear doesn't matter doesn't mean we think it's a good thing.

You're the type of deluded player that thinks they lose to someone because they had 3% more stats than them.

The only thing that matters is honor levels (which can be done in a day) and Artifacts.

Now go ahead, sing alone "I don't have a rock in my head!" because you don't even play the game and even when you did you didn't know anything about it. The general-OT board is where you should be with your fellow rockheads.

[Caolela]

Just because we say gear doesn't matter doesn't mean we think it's a good thing.

You're the type of deluded player that thinks they lose to someone because they had 3% more stats than them.

The only thing that matters is honor levels (which can be done in a day) and Artifacts.

Now go ahead, sing alone "I don't have a rock in my head!" because you don't even play the game and even when you did you didn't know anything about it. The general-OT board is where you should be with your fellow rockheads.

I've played the game since Cata with breaks on occasion, and if there's something you think you know about the game that I don't, please enlighten us, (try your old fallback assumption of, "But I've been X-rating and you've only been Y-rating!1! You must be a KB-turnin' clicker that doesn't know macros & binds!!1") ...which has nothing to do with the state of PvP in Legion.

Apparently you're also too dense to realize that people can have more than one toon and/or different accounts. Currently I have 20 chars between both factions and just rolled two more last night (22). Maybe you should quit pulling assumptions from the nether regions to try to prop up a lame argument...like delusional claims that the AP grind is done in a day.

The same for claiming I "think" something that I haven't said. Does someone with 3% or 5% or 9% more stats always beat someone with less stats? No, but it certainly helps, and all else being equal the higher stat player will win more than not. Any troglodyte would know that but evidently you're still in denial. And that doesn't count the extra Stam etc. that traits and abilities give. So we get more invented shit from you because fanboys cannot deny the actual facts about PvP in Legion.

We've been here before and you're still posting the same BS as always. GG!

[Linri]

i too am tempted to return, but after what they did to pvp i don't know if i will be returning

templates = yuck
honor talents = fun unlocking them
prestige = don't care about icon next to name, half players use custom UI anyways
RNG rewards for gear = umm why ?
world pvp = lmao

[Appelgren]

Some decent tuning in store for 7.2.5 it seems. I would wait untill then and just stay away from this melee-train season. (Not that it will change by alot tho)