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  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Actually, more Soviet troops were killed (even as a percentage of total troops) than German troops despite Germany fighting 2-3 fronts vs the Soviet's one.
    Ah the trusted Western history books on WW2 lmao.
    As US historian Peter Kuznick writes: “Up to [D-Day, June 1944], the Soviet Union had almost singlehandedly battled the German military. Until the invasion of Normandy, the Red Army was regularly engaging more than two hundred enemy divisions while the Americans and British together rarely confronted more than ten. Germany lost over 6 million men on the eastern front and approximately 1 million on the western front and in the Mediterranean.”
    One man who understood the Red Army’s role in crushing the fascist juggernaut was Britain’s wartime leader Winston Churchill. In a speech to the House of Commons in August 1944, he observed: “It is the Russian armies who have done the main work in tearing the guts out of the Germany army. In the air and on the oceans we could maintain our place, but there was no force in the world which could have been called into being … that would have been able to maul and break the Germany army unless it had been subjected to the terrible slaughter and manhandling that has fallen to it through the strength of the Russian Soviet armies.”
    Happy Victory day Comrades!
    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi Batman View Post
    Sounds like a euphemism for real life. We throw money at the rich, in hopes that we will someday be rich, and then we get hookers to piss on us. That's what trickle down economics really is.

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by bgdfahrq View Post
    It was the best tank in WW2

    The Sherman could be made easily but could blow up just as easily while german tanks was well made its just that they was TOO well made and that they couldn't make enough of them to compete. Then you had the T-34 that could be made in a factory that was being sieged and bombed and literally roll of the production line straight into battle and with its revolutionary sloped armour the Germans couldnt touch it unless they hit it with there big boy tanks like the Tiger which they didnt have enough of!
    No way! A 1911 couldn't blow up a Sherman! Only crappy german tanks get blown up that way.
    Me thinks Chromie has a whole lot of splaining to do!

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Poland might have been able to fend them off had it not previously sided with Hitler by attacking Czechoslovakia simultaneously with German forces. At least when USSR did it they waited two weeks for others to act before claiming their part.
    I find such reasoning cute. If you are willing to go into such "actions-reactions" chains you can go as deep as to the Stone Age. Still, Poland and Czechoslovakia have done a lot of shit to each other between world wars, and somehow I doubt Stalin's primary objective was to steal a chunk of Poland just because they've been dicks to some other nation, who have been dicks to them before.

    But hey, you said couple posts before that Holodomor, oppressions, and other wonderful events done by the Soviets had their "sane" reasons, so I think I can guess what's going on here.

  4. #64
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Skandulous View Post
    Ah the trusted Western history books on WW2 lmao.




    Happy Victory day Comrades!
    Oh I know the USSR was used to grind Germany down (though we supported the USSR a bit too much as they were able to actually advance against Germany) but they did it by sustaining 2X+ the casualties of Germany despite significantly outnumbering the Germans for most of the war. The USSR won because of size, not the fighting ability of the Red Army. You are basically celebrating your willingness to be slaughtered for Mother Russia. Personally I prefer Patton's take on winning over Russia's.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    I just literally said you had a better chance of dying in combat as a Soviet soldier (31% death rate) than a German soldier (29% death rate) despite Germany fighting on several fronts to the USSR's one.
    I know and I pointed out that in the scope of the comparison being discussed (T-34-85 crew vs Panther crew during battle for Berlin) the Soviet crew had better survival chances and 100% victory chances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devonitar View Post
    I had to check, because I couldn't believe they made a tank referencing Polish TV series / book.
    It even has the dog as a crew member, comes with situational awareness skill as standard.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    Odd, why is Russia celebrating the victory of the Soviet Union?
    Russia is the recognised successor state to the Soviet Union. It's the same as Canada celebrating something achieved by British North America or the Dominion of Canada, or Germany celebrating something achieved by West/East Germany.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    I know and I pointed out that in the scope of the comparison being discussed (T-34-85 crew vs Panther crew during battle for Berlin) the Soviet crew had better survival chances and 100% victory chances.

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    It even has the dog as a crew member, comes with situational awareness skill as standard.

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    Russia is the recognised successor state to the Soviet Union. It's the same as Canada celebrating something achieved by British North America or the Dominion of Canada, or Germany celebrating something achieved by West/East Germany.
    Well hell, of course if you are looking at the Battle of Berlin, but that is hardly a proper way to look at which was the better tank. Plus, the German tanker had a good chance of being in West Germany after the war, while the Soviet tanker got to go back to the USSR (not exactly a great reward for winning!).

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by caervek View Post
    Russia is the recognised successor state to the Soviet Union. It's the same as Canada celebrating something achieved by British North America or the Dominion of Canada, or Germany celebrating something achieved by West/East Germany.
    Oh I know, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy, at the posters who cry "RUSSIA IS NOT USSR!", whenever the crimes of the USSR comes up, but get a hard on whenever Russia celebrates victory day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ulmita View Post
    The red army is the rwason we dont speak German now
    The Russian military isnt the Red Army tho.

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    So, basically the Germans built better tanks just not enough of them. Oh, and Germany's infrastructure was subject to far more bombing than the USSR's.
    You forget that USSR had to move almost all its infrastructure from Stalingrad (west USSR) to Urals when war kicked in
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Devonitar View Post
    I find such reasoning cute. If you are willing to go into such "actions-reactions" chains you can go as deep as to the Stone Age.
    That one chain wasn't deep at all.

    It is exactly when you ignore those action-reaction chains do those actions start looking "insane". But that is just you ignoring all sane steps and reasons that led to them, only looking at final outcome.

    Still, Poland and Czechoslovakia have done a lot of shit to each other between world wars, and somehow I doubt Stalin's primary objective was to steal a chunk of Poland just because they've been dicks to some other nation, who have been dicks to them before.
    You could see it as karmic justice - Poland refused to allow protecting other nations from Hitler's advances, and so it also fallen victim of them (and then for more karma they also got stuck under Soviet governance - something they claimed was main fear and why they refused to allow Soviet troops to pass through).

    Everyone was aware that Hitler will set sights to some next target after Poland (or Czechoslovakia, for that matter), and everyone was playing "pass the hot Hitler before it blows" game to make someone else their target. USSR won first few rounds due to signing non-aggression pact when it was obvious that UK isn't going to commit to any sort of pact and was just stalling for time but lost later.

    Still won in the end though.
    Last edited by Shalcker; 2017-05-10 at 08:51 AM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    Oh I know, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy, at the posters who cry "RUSSIA IS NOT USSR!", whenever the crimes of the USSR comes up, but get a hard on whenever Russia celebrates victory day.
    Russia celebrates the effort soviet citizens made towards the victory of WW2. I personally celebrate the sacrifice people of USSR made these years, not Russian citizens i must add, but people of USSR. It's up to post-USSR countries to decide if they want to celebrate it or not, for some reason they decide not to do that, apparently.

    On the other side, this parade is a huge waste of money. Looking at how WW2 veterans live (lived) - these money could be spent on them instead, they already threw their lives under a buss just for us to fucking survive, and instead of giving them easy life we choose to spend money of a fucking parade. Each fucking year. Great job Russia, while people who fought the war die in horrible conditions we throw a parade to celebrate their heroism.

    But to reiterate - Victory Day is not about USSR or Red Army, it's about USSR citizens who had choice to die in Nazi slavery or to die on the front, and they, thankfully, choose latter
    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Dictionary
    Russians are a nation inhabiting territory of Russia an ex-USSR countries. Russians enjoy drinking vodka and listening to the bears playing button-accordions. Russians are open- and warm- hearted. They are ready to share their last prianik (russian sweet cookie) with guests, in case lasts encounter that somewhere. Though, it's almost unreal, 'cos russians usually hide their stuff well.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispin View Post
    Oh I know, I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy, at the posters who cry "RUSSIA IS NOT USSR!", whenever the crimes of the USSR comes up, but get a hard on whenever Russia celebrates victory day.
    Ahh I see, but the important thing is how do you stand on Russia technically being the greatest hockey team in history despite never winning gold as Russia then? :P

  12. #72
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    You forget that USSR had to move almost all its infrastructure from Stalingrad (west USSR) to Urals when war kicked in
    I forgot no such thing. That was why it wasnt bombed. The interruption in production for the move was a small price to pay to move outside the range of Luftwaffe medium bombers.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charge me Doctor View Post
    Russia celebrates the effort soviet citizens made towards the victory of WW2. I personally celebrate the sacrifice people of USSR made these years, not Russian citizens i must add, but people of USSR. It's up to post-USSR countries to decide if they want to celebrate it or not, for some reason they decide not to do that, apparently.

    On the other side, this parade is a huge waste of money. Looking at how WW2 veterans live (lived) - these money could be spent on them instead, they already threw their lives under a buss just for us to fucking survive, and instead of giving them easy life we choose to spend money of a fucking parade. Each fucking year. Great job Russia, while people who fought the war die in horrible conditions we throw a parade to celebrate their heroism.

    But to reiterate - Victory Day is not about USSR or Red Army, it's about USSR citizens who had choice to die in Nazi slavery or to die on the front, and they, thankfully, choose latter


    Or die by being shot by NKVD for refusing to fight.....

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Oh I know the USSR was used to grind Germany down (though we supported the USSR a bit too much as they were able to actually advance against Germany) but they did it by sustaining 2X+ the casualties of Germany despite significantly outnumbering the Germans for most of the war. The USSR won because of size, not the fighting ability of the Red Army. You are basically celebrating your willingness to be slaughtered for Mother Russia. Personally I prefer Patton's take on winning over Russia's.
    The Red Army wasn't just a big clumsy giant and pulled off more than its share of tactical master strokes. Bagration was right up there with any action fought by either side and that was just one of several massive offensive operations they conducted in the latter stages of the war. The victories may not have come cheap, but the Soviets didn't have the resources or technology to win any other way.

  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Macaquerie View Post
    The Red Army wasn't just a big clumsy giant and pulled off more than its share of tactical master strokes. Bagration was right up there with any action fought by either side and that was just one of several massive offensive operations they conducted in the latter stages of the war. The victories may not have come cheap, but the Soviets didn't have the resources or technology to win any other way.
    Didnt have the resources???? They out built Germany in most categories, especially in tanks and artillery, plus they had massive help from lend-lease.

  15. #75
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    I always love military parades. I've seen the one in Paris a couple of years ago and it was very impressive.

    Too bad my own country doesn't have much of a military pride or culture.

  16. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    I always love military parades. I've seen the one in Paris a couple of years ago and it was very impressive.

    Too bad my own country doesn't have much of a military pride or culture.
    Of course you do. Just have a yearly Watergeuzen Parade and you shall have your share of military pride.
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  17. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ravenblade View Post
    Of course you do. Just have a yearly Watergeuzen Parade and you shall have your share of military pride.
    That sucks tbh. More like a LARP event.

    I would like to see this one in Chile someday:


  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Didnt have the resources???? They out built Germany in most categories, especially in tanks and artillery, plus they had massive help from lend-lease.
    It's silly to assume that the USSR was overflowing with resources simply because it looked big on a map and had abundant raw materials. The Soviet economy had only begun to industrialize in the 20s and was nowhere near as efficient or productive as the German economy, and lagged far behind in production of coal, steel, aluminum, and just about everything else. The only reason they managed to crank out as many vehicles as they did was because they purposely kept them simple and cheap to build, if they had tried to copy German designs they wouldn't have produced nearly as many. Lend Lease did help them, but that could only ever do so much because of the nature of Russian geography and the lack of good ports, and over the course of the war the USSR received about a third of what Britain did in total aid.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    That sucks tbh. More like a LARP event.

    I would like to see this one in Chile someday:
    Military parades are like a form of compensation for not actually being able to fight well. When was the last time Chile won a war?

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    I forgot no such thing. That was why it wasnt bombed. The interruption in production for the move was a small price to pay to move outside the range of Luftwaffe medium bombers.

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    [/B]

    Or die by being shot by NKVD for refusing to fight.....
    still better than the 10M deaths from nazi advance :|

  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deruyter View Post
    That sucks tbh. More like a LARP event.

    I would like to see this one in Chile someday:
    Tbh, it would not be much different than in this video which is more a tattoo than an actual military parade, and I am sure you already do have that one.

    PS: "old Prussian tradition" and Radetzky March don't really mix well because the latter is related to the K.u.K. i.e. Imperial Austria. You'd be looking for Preussen's Gloria which is btw still an official march of the army.
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