10 years of development on classes and specs..

[Uoyredrum]

They redid them in TBC. Wrath. Cata. It's nothing new, the game would be incredibly boring if the classes played exactly the same from expansion to expansion. One of the reasons I play alts regularly is because they change and I want to experience the new way they work.

They really didn't remake them till cata. Up until that point they just added onto the classes and did QoL changes while adding new abilities and talents. The core gameplay for most specs was still the same. When they decided to change the talent trees is when things got fucky.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Arms warriors going from killing machines in MoP to whirlwind spamming ballerinas in 6.0 was probably the peak of the comedic screwups.

But this........this is just sadistic and cruel.

I don't agree class design is getting worse. Some get it bad worse then others. As for Arms, well I'd say it went down(IMO) in Mist and roughly stayed the same since then.

[Zayv]

I don't agree class design is getting worse. Some get it bad worse then others. As for Arms, well I'd say it went down(IMO) in Mist and roughly stayed the same since then.

IDK man the consensus, and my personal memory, seems to be that Arms was beastly in MoP. I remember chunking people's health with CS> MS > Overpower> HS. And of course Second Wind, Bladestorm, rocking charge stun + shockwave + stormbolt, and overall tankiness. Was a glorious time. This is for pvp mind you, don't know how they were in PvE.

WoD was like falling off a god damn cliff! I'll never forget how crap it felt when 6.0 dropped. But in regards to the downturn; I barely played TBC, and never played Wrath or Cata. From what I hear Wrath warriors were awesome.

[Themanintobuildafire]

I personally preferred survival in Cata. It was already a simple to play spec in Cata but then they removed the weaving of different spells in between each of your explosive shots on lock and load for MOP. Then we got to WOD and they removed kill shot too... It was simple but fun in Cata then they just trimmed it a tiny bit more for the next 2 xpacs until there was almost nothing left....

Then we got to Legion and they totally started over and gave us what feels like a half finished and barely play tested melee spec.

I miss kill shot a lot. It is funny because I started to play my spriest a bit and they have a "kill shot" mechanic which is on the same button as I had kill shot. Now when I play my hunter I am hitting that button at low mob health and swearing because there is no more kill shot.

I'd love to see that come back to hunters...I don't care if some classes want to feel special with an execute type ability.

[Daffan]

They remake them every expansion. It's annoying as fuck tbh.

Yep. It's pretty lame, good luck if you get a thing you like next patch/expansion its dead.

[corebit]

Some people like the spec from X expansion while others don't. If Blizzard kept the class design the same for each expansion, others would complain classes are the same old boring shit and Blizzard is not innovating anymore, etc, etc.

[Deleted]

Spec plays perfectly. Everyone loves it. Blizz changes it so drastically that very few people keep playing that spec.
I will never understand why they feel the need to change amazingly well-received spec...

[Deleted]

I think warlords was the best, but i totally agree.

These devs are getting outright disgusting.

Look at the latest PTR. They are going around nerfing all t19 sets so people don't hold on to them. All this development time and effort instead of just flagging you to only be able to have 2 tier bonuses active at once. Nooo, they must nerf all the present ones, make your character weaker when the patch hits, just so they can stubburnly have you be able to equip 6 tier pieces, but them beeing actually not worth it. WHY?! WTF are you doing?!

[Anjerith]

And one expansion they decided to remake them all.
Do you think that's fair from Blizzard? I feel that most specs were at best in MoP. And this new "diablo team"? Ruined alot of specs and its identity.

Many specs plays similar, which doesnt make me feel unique anymore on many specs.

My experience has been that people that started with MoP think it is the hands down best, while people that started before that feel that the point they started was the best.

To be honest, with the exception of DH -- which is bloated as fuck -- the game has never been more balanced. And I can say that with utmost authority having not only played since Pre-release, but having run and RL for the majority of the game.


People will, of course, argue. Especially on the cesspool that is this site. And I don't actually care to respond to any of those. The point here is really that the OP is wrong, the game has been constantly evolving. Hell, Paladins didn't even have seals until well into Classic -- amongst many other equally significant changes. There have been no change between MoP and Legion that were as significant as the changes between launch and tbc so get over it and accept that live games changes Please.

[Zoreyai]

Agreed, so many Diablo 3 aspects added to this game and it just DOESN'T work for an MMO.

[Deleted]

My experience has been that people that started with MoP think it is the hands down best, while people that started before that feel that the point they started was the best.

To be honest, with the exception of DH -- which is bloated as fuck -- the game has never been more balanced. And I can say that with utmost authority having not only played since Pre-release, but having run and RL for the majority of the game.


People will, of course, argue. Especially on the cesspool that is this site. And I don't actually care to respond to any of those. The point here is really that the OP is wrong, the game has been constantly evolving. Hell, Paladins didn't even have seals until well into Classic -- amongst many other equally significant changes. There have been no change between MoP and Legion that were as significant as the changes between launch and tbc so get over it and accept that live games changes Please.

Dude, i've been here since vanilla and that is bollocks, nor are you entitled to say people with opposing opinions are a "cesspool", especially given you are part of it.
The game is not balanced and it's not the best it's ever been (though it's also not at its worst, but that was a long time ago). I also think it was at it's best in WoD in terms of class design (until they decided they didn't want people playing demonology because Demon hunters), wich is far from my first expansion.

God i wish they stopped beeing such asses and just reverted the classes to WoD and went on from there.

[Stardrift]

The whittling down of diversity in specs is most definitely the most significant reason for me leaving the game.

lol what? Classes haven't been this unique since WoTLK.

[Schattenlied]

And one expansion they decided to remake them all.
Do you think that's fair from Blizzard? I feel that most specs were at best in MoP. And this new "diablo team"? Ruined alot of specs and its identity.

Many specs plays similar, which doesnt make me feel unique anymore on many specs.

One expansion? They have been revamping half the classes every expac since Cataclysm dropped.

They were at their best in WotLK.

lol what? Classes haven't been this unique since WoTLK.

Specs haven't been this unique ever, and that's a problem, every spec feels like it's own class, which is stupid... Every spec of a class should still feel like that class.

Specializations should be precisely that, specialization, as in taking a part of the class' basic kit and specializing in that to make it stronger, with a couple of abilities that are new while maintaining the rest of that basic kit, not changing the entire class kit like we see now

This is how it worked in Vanilla/TBC/Wrath, btw... We got only a couple of abilities from a spec that weren't available to all players of the class, and the other specs did the same, the vast majority of our kit was static, switching specs still felt like the same class, unlike now.

As far as I'm concerned, "class fantasy" was nailed in Wrath, never been more perfect. All those flavor abilities that have been pruned over the years, the "bloat", they contribute heavily to fantasy, not to mention the non-bloat that was pruned like Hammer of Wrath (the single most iconic ability Paladins have ever had)... The mark wasn't just overshot on pruning, it landed in a different country.

TL;DR Blizzard went too far with spec identity, and in the process butchered class identity.

[MoanaLisa]

Some people like the spec from X expansion while others don't. If Blizzard kept the class design the same for each expansion, others would complain classes are the same old boring shit and Blizzard is not innovating anymore, etc, etc.

The argument isn't really about keeping classes the same. It's about how much they should change, how often and whether or not the game should be kept fresh by simply twisting classes around every couple of years. At this point I don't know who mains I have played for years even are. That's a problem.

[Usagi Senshi]

What they did (turned them into a half-baked fury warrior with the spells and totems removed that I liked) to enhance shaman made me drop the class and pick up monk as my main. Demon hunters playstyle is pretty damn good as well IMO.

On the flip side, I like what they did with ret paladin and surv hunters and enjoy those specs even more now.

[Cosmic Janitor]

They rework them every expansion.. sometimes they just forgot a few classes/specs, but in general they fiddle with them constantly..

[szandos]

I do agree with many in this thread that MoP was the most fun in regards to classes. I also think they overhauled the classes a bit too much at the start of Legion, but I think a bigger problem is that they keep overhaul classes mid-expansion. It's bad enough that you have to re-learn a class every expansion, now you have to re-learn it every patch.

[bufferunderrun]

And one expansion they decided to remake them all.
Do you think that's fair from Blizzard? I feel that most specs were at best in MoP. And this new "diablo team"? Ruined alot of specs and its identity.

Many specs plays similar, which doesnt make me feel unique anymore on many specs.

isn't that what they do usually? Each xpack classes and specs are grounded and rebuild you need to be luck the one you like to play don't get the short end of the stick.

I really hope this is the last time we see complete overhauls and blizzard stick to one design and just do fine tuning.

[Stardrift]

One expansion? They have been revamping half the classes every expac since Cataclysm dropped.

They were at their best in WotLK.




Specs haven't been this unique ever, and that's a problem, every spec feels like it's own class, which is stupid... Every spec of a class should still feel like that class.

Specializations should be precisely that, specialization, as in taking a part of the class' basic kit and specializing in that to make it stronger, with a couple of abilities that are new while maintaining the rest of that basic kit, not changing the entire class kit like we see now

This is how it worked in Vanilla/TBC/Wrath, btw... We got only a couple of abilities from a spec that weren't available to all players of the class, and the other specs did the same, the vast majority of our kit was static, switching specs still felt like the same class, unlike now.

As far as I'm concerned, "class fantasy" was nailed in Wrath, never been more perfect. All those flavor abilities that have been pruned over the years, the "bloat", they contribute heavily to fantasy, not to mention the non-bloat that was pruned like Hammer of Wrath (the single most iconic ability Paladins have ever had)... The mark wasn't just overshot on pruning, it landed in a different country.

TL;DR Blizzard went too far with spec identity, and in the process butchered class identity.

But every spec feels like the class they belong to.. Idk how anyone could think differently. Especially with the order hall quests, upcoming mounts, the artifact weapons, etc. The abilities too are all great and fit the identity. But I do agree they removed stuff that actually belonged and left in/added some that don't belong.

[burzian]

I don't mind them reworking classes between expansions, but I don't like how much reworking they do in the middle of an expansion. Having to re-learn a rotation, swapping talents out and changing the way classes play happens far too often in the course of an expansion.