There is no way Blizzard will give up AP as a reward

[xuros]

First of all, watch your language.
Second of all, if you don't give me a timecode, I'm not gonna watch this whole thing just to find whatever you are referring to. There is nothing in the MMO-C notes that is talking about what you are mentioning.

Then live in fucking ignorance. People are so fucking lazy.

[KrotosTheTank]

I think you have sufficiently proven my vague and subjective comment. (Seriously breh... chill)

Point is you recognize that people aren't overly happy with the system. That's all I was saying.


To fully max out your artifact traits you need:

195 BILLION AP

Currently I have accumulated 233 MILLION

Which at level 43 is still 2 BILLION AP away from what you think is sufficient at 52.

So I guess I've been in a coma... and am currently still in a coma. I am not sure you could be any more obnoxious or contemptible if you tried.

You need 865,842,644,766,330 AP to fully max out your traits. That's essentially 866 TRILLION. Facts are better when accurate.

Are you at current max AK? I mean... at current max, just doing LFR alone gives 20M AP. In 30 days that comes out to 96.6M, from simply just running LFR, once.
Do a single elite WQ for AP? That's currently worth 4.1M AP (assuming it doesn't proc double), which becomes 19.8M in 6 more AK.
Do you do any Legionfall dailies? Enough for a turn in here or there? That's currently 3.3M, which becomes 15.9M.
What about a single daily heroic? That's currently worth i believe 3.3M but if not it's 2.5M. That's not counting any of the 480k tokens that may drop once inside.
Emissaries? Those are worth 3.3M.
Class hall missions which are no work at all are worth now over 3M, not counting double procs or the extra token if you get over 100% success chance.

For perspective, yesterday I played for a total of probably 7 hrs, not a little bit of time, but let's spread it out to a week long. I got 270M AP yesterday alone. I did all of the AP WQ. About 4 heroics (2 for a large AP WQ), I think 2? M+, both under a 10. A huge chunk was about 45M from my +16 M+ cache. I did about 3 Legionfall turn-ins, 2 wings of LFR, and a full clear of H NH. That's a lot for a single day, but not if you spread it over a week. If I do the same thing in 4 weeks I'll get 1.3billion AP; so in that one week I would have gotten over 50% of what i need for 52, and that's ignoring all previous AP i've gained (I'd get only about 23% less the previous week).

If you read what i said, I said: "You'd have to be in a coma to not hit 52, assuming you're current on AK, before 7.2.5 when Tomb releases." It's obvious hyperbole, but it's not far off. The things i mentioned could be completed within less than a couple of hours total, per week, and you'd make it to 52 before ToS. If you play less than that, which is fine, you aren't in a position where having all the extra traits is something to stress about anyways.

My only point is that the new 7.2 AP system, from a burnout/grinding perspective is miles ahead of what we had previously and those complaining about how it's bad or worse are wrong. I think you can argue all day about how boring concordance is, and that there could be better, more interesting ways to add to the weapon than just adding 50 on top, but the system we have isn't terrible.

[Deleted]

The whole point is that people are not fond of it. I'm not about to kill myself over it... I wish it wasn't there. I am not alone in that wish.

I like artifact power and artifact weapons, and I'm not alone in that either. I just hate that artifact knowledge doesn't apply automatically. I hate having to check when a new book is ready and stuff.

Other than that, it's really just gaining levels stretched out over the rest of the expansion. You're not supposed to grind it and you don't have to. You are supposed to gain levels at a constant pace.

- - - Updated - - -

Then live in fucking ignorance. People are so fucking lazy.

YOU make the claim, YOU provide the source. I'm not gonna watch an hour long Q and A because of a claim YOU made, that is probably gonna turn out false. YOU have to back up your claims, so if you don't give me the timecode, YOU are the one being lazy. If you don't change your attitude, this is the last post I'm gonna reply to.

[emilylorange]

Yeah, I know. Every expansion had that.

Do you think everybody liked to do the Molten Front?

Do you think everybody liked to grind rep in Cataclysm or WoD?

Do you think everybody liked to do Ashran?

To state that Cataclysm and WoD had no grinding is outright ridiculous.

Ah, so you're going to take one line and respond to it disingenuously and devoid of context.

Have a nice day.

[Morfx]

No matter what they've said, and they haven't even clearly said anywhere that artifact weapons aren't gonna carry over into the next expansion, but even if they had, AP has become too much of a universal reward for them to give it up. It's something they've wanted to do for years. Whatever content you wanna do at max level - dungeons, raids, PvP, quests - you can do it, and get a reward that helps you progress your character over the course of the whole expansion. There is no way they are just gonna let go of that.

I'm gonna copy my other post in here for anyone trying to lecture me on Blizzard having outruled artifact weapons for the next expansion.

They clearly said they werent gona carry over, just search for vids cba to provide u with a link but they did say we wouldnt be able to keep any of the current wpns

[KrotosTheTank]

I like artifact power and artifact weapons, and I'm not alone in that either. I just hate that artifact knowledge doesn't apply automatically. I hate having to check when a new book is ready and stuff.

Other than that, it's really just gaining levels stretched out over the rest of the expansion. You're not supposed to grind it and you don't have to. You are supposed to gain levels at a constant pace.

Agreed on the second point, but c'mon, seriously, you hate having to check something that happens once every 5 days that you could do on your phone if you really wanted to? I mean, you check the page that shows it's current progress every time you look to see anything about your class hall missions.

[Teri]

I really wonder what the WQ rewards will be, post-expansion, if they will change or not.

I hope they don't remove WQ, but if they must change them, remove the gold or something.

[Wondercrab]

The problem with AP is that it's a pretty bad universal reward, since the benefits feel fleeting during AK progression and unimpactful afterwards. What I expect (or at least hope) they'll do is move on to a more refined system akin to previous PvE currencies like Justice and Valour. Something that actually has universal value rather than just being an incremental, time-gated power boost. A currency that could be spent on both player power upgrades and cosmetic or utility rewards would be far superior.

[Nurasu]

If they carry the concept of AP forward but keep it spec specific instead of character specific, I'll probably just pass on the next expansion. That, combined with the fact that weapons are only good for one spec at the moment, is (probably) irrationally irritating to me. Previously, the stats on a weapon might be more ideal for one spec over another but it wasn't useless.

[KrotosTheTank]

I really wonder what the WQ rewards will be, post-expansion, if they will change or not.

I hope they don't remove WQ, but if they must change them, remove the gold or something.

There's no need to remove the gold from them, though I wouldn't be surprised if they reduce the amount. Running around doing old content WQ won't be very time efficient. They'll most certainly remove the gold rewards from the class hall missions though, that's just too easy to log in and collect, can even do it via mobile.

If they carry the concept of AP forward but keep it spec specific instead of character specific, I'll probably just pass on the next expansion. That, combined with the fact that weapons are only good for one spec at the moment, is (probably) irrationally irritating to me. Previously, the stats on a weapon might be more ideal for one spec over another but it wasn't useless.

Legendaries are a massively larger issue than AP with regards to swapping specs. The AP issue for swapping hardly exists anymore.

I don't know what you mean about weapons are only good for one spec. They can only be used by one spec. Are you really complaining about secondary stat itemization on your Artifacts? A single aspect of your entire gear? They barely give secondaries compared to other items such as rings or necks.

[Deleted]

Agreed on the second point, but c'mon, seriously, you hate having to check something that happens once every 5 days that you could do on your phone if you really wanted to?

Yes, because I have 12 characters that all have AKs end on different days at different times of the day, so I have to constantly check. Just as an example, today when I logged in, 2 were finished, but another 2 were close to be finished, one in 30 minutes and another one in 6 hours. So it's impossible to keep track of. I don't have a phone that could use an app, and I don't wanna use an app to play the game anyway. Especially when this could easily be reworked in a way where this just applies automatically. There really is no reason not to. They have the tech.

I mean, you check the page that shows it's current progress every time you look to see anything about your class hall missions.

I don't do class hall missions.

[Morfx]

I like artifact power and artifact weapons, and I'm not alone in that either. I just hate that artifact knowledge doesn't apply automatically. I hate having to check when a new book is ready and stuff.

Other than that, it's really just gaining levels stretched out over the rest of the expansion. You're not supposed to grind it and you don't have to. You are supposed to gain levels at a constant pace.

- - - Updated - - -



YOU make the claim, YOU provide the source. I'm not gonna watch an hour long Q and A because of a claim YOU made, that is probably gonna turn out false. YOU have to back up your claims, so if you don't give me the timecode, YOU are the one being lazy. If you don't change your attitude, this is the last post I'm gonna reply to.

http://www.wowhead.com/news=257585/l...moved-after-le
there u troll, is this guy legit enough for u? or are u guna say when this
"Explain more about the Artifact Weapon Appearances that will be removed after Legion?
The appearances will always be there and able to unlocked after Legion.
Right now, you can't actually transmog something to look like your artifact. After Legion, Blizzard would like to add a way to earn those appearances for transmog.
This is a way to reward people who unlocked appearances to carry them forward in regular content.
After Legion, you can still acquire artifacts and unlock all the tints, you just can't transmog them onto other weapons if you were not playing during Legion."
is the topic he is clearly talking about previous statement that artifact wpns wont be carried over and how will they deal with tmogs for them, there's more if u do a little research.

[Deleted]

http://www.wowhead.com/news=257585/l...moved-after-le
there u troll, is this guy legit enough for u? or are u guna say when this
"Explain more about the Artifact Weapon Appearances that will be removed after Legion?
The appearances will always be there and able to unlocked after Legion.
Right now, you can't actually transmog something to look like your artifact. After Legion, Blizzard would like to add a way to earn those appearances for transmog.
This is a way to reward people who unlocked appearances to carry them forward in regular content.
After Legion, you can still acquire artifacts and unlock all the tints, you just can't transmog them onto other weapons if you were not playing during Legion."
is the topic he is clearly talking about previous statement that artifact wpns wont be carried over and how will they deal with tmogs for them, there's more if u do a little research.

Nothing there says that artifacts won't be carried over.

[Camthur]

I figure they'll transition it into a system that's like the cousin/descendant of the current one. (Kinda like how Class Halls are definitely related to Garrison tech)

[A dot Ham]

My only point is that the new 7.2 AP system, from a burnout/grinding perspective is miles ahead of what we had previously and those complaining about how it's bad or worse are wrong. I think you can argue all day about how boring concordance is, and that there could be better, more interesting ways to add to the weapon than just adding 50 on top, but the system we have isn't terrible.

Your ego is like out to here [ <------------------------------------------> ]

How can someone be wrong about expressing what they do or don't like.

I completely understand the intent of the system. I also understand that I will be pretty close to 52 by the time ToS launches.

Just because it is better, doesn't mean it isn't still a grind. People don't like the system. They don't like it. they would prefer the "grindiness" as you pointed out... simply be focused elsewhere. That's a preference.

Some of those traits though are crucial for class performance and without them... you're way underperforming. Hitting the next AP level... is so lackluster. You can try to sell it all you want but I don't care for it, and if you're paying attention, other people aren't either. I know people who quit prior to 7.2 and I know people that quite after 7.2 because they moved the goal posts. Misconception/misperception or not... people... don't... like... it.

"No, no, no, you do like it. Or you should like it because, x, y, & z." Nah I'm pretty sure I still don't like it.

Bottom line is, I didn't come here for you to try and sell it to me on Blizzard's behalf. There is really nothing I could at this point to speed up the process... it is... what it is, and I am doing everything I should to get where I "need" to be without killing myself grinding my dick off.

It is simply a factor to consider when discussing the future of Artifacts and AP.

[A dot Ham]

I figure they'll transition it into a system that's like the cousin/descendant of the current one. (Kinda like how Class Halls are definitely related to Garrison tech)

Shhhh shhh shh. People have been killed for less.

[Elbob]

The problem with AP is that it's a pretty bad universal reward, since the benefits feel fleeting during AK progression and unimpactful afterwards. What I expect (or at least hope) they'll do is move on to a more refined system akin to previous PvE currencies like Justice and Valor. Something that actually has universal value rather than just being an incremental, time-gated power boost. A currency that could be spent on both player power upgrades and cosmetic or utility rewards would be far superior.

And what reward does valor give us after we have purchased the gear or gear upgrades?
Does it let us scale the gear on forever?
What sources does it drop from?
Does it have caps?

Man could you imagine how much I would want valor right now if it gave ilvl 885? (heroic NH level)... I wouldn't. Most people have easily passed that ilvl point making the valor useless and "fleeting" in terms of rewards. Valor and justice badges were always an easy answer and not more refined. Those were real TIMEGATES because they limited how much you could earn and what you would buy with them. AP is an infinite cycle with DR'ing returns that never hit 0. I keep seeing this need to finish the ap grind when that isnt the point of ap. Valor had that point and it resulted in a problem... log on -> grind your weekly/daily Valor -> log off. AP has easy rewards and grind oriented rewards... Log on -> do emissary via some high ap wq's for burst ap -> log off OR do more wq's for less ap/min OR do some dungeons for AP... etc since there are many AP sources. I like having OPTIONS for when and how I play.

You are arguing that because of AK your effort now feels worthless so why not just get AP later when it is faster. Under that logic why don't you only sub to the game when the final patch of the expac is out? You will get the most powerful as fast as possible? I'm not even talking in the ap sense I'm talking about raw Ilvl of gear available which applies to EVERY expansion. With Ap you get growth and rewards for playing all expansion long... yes someone who only plays later will catch up most the way but that million AP you made today is still 50 million AP 6months from now that some one who didn't play can't go back and get.

This entire AP+AK system benefits casual expansion long play! Why is this a bad thing? Do you want to constantly unsub and resub? It seems like you are just looking for that excuse (you still can).

[KrotosTheTank]

Yes, because I have 12 characters that all have AKs end on different days at different times of the day, so I have to constantly check. Just as an example, today when I logged in, 2 were finished, but another 2 were close to be finished, one in 30 minutes and another one in 6 hours. So it's impossible to keep track of. I don't have a phone that could use an app, and I don't wanna use an app to play the game anyway. Especially when this could easily be reworked in a way where this just applies automatically. There really is no reason not to. They have the tech.

This is a joke, right? Who cares if you have 12 characters; there's a reason why they let you research 2 at a time, that way there's no down time before you pick up your current one. You lose literally nothing unless you miss it by over 5 days, which meant you weren't playing that character very much to begin with. You just log in and go nuts with 5-mans, WQ (presumably using the WQGF) and maybe some raids while never ever having the time to click a button once? You never visit your class hall? You don't upgrade your weapon when you get enough AP to do so? I can't speak for all class halls, but i know in the warrior one you have to literally walk past the AK research books on the floor in order to get to the weapon forge.

I don't do class hall missions.

This is hilarious, you have 12 toons and don't do class hall missions. 12 characters could get you well over 50k gold a week. You also claim to care about your AK on your alts but yet don't participate in the single easiest way to collect AP/Rep/gold/raid loot/etc.... What do you do on these 12 characters that both requires up to date AK while also ignoring the easiest manner to collect AP?

You're an incredibly interesting individual.

[Morfx]

Nothing there says that artifacts won't be carried over.

After Legion, you can still acquire artifacts and unlock all the tints
After Legion, you can still acquire artifacts

this, in case u havent been following the current Q & As, hey im not judging some ppl dont care/have time for it, is a follow up on a previous one that he stated what Xuros or w/e said on the post you replied to, Ion was confronted with the question on how will it make sense for us to lose our artifacts and he said they would find a way to make sense of it. now u can look at the frog, smell the frog, taste the frog, hear the frog croak and say theres no where in the frog that is writen its a frog, and this is how u are a troll.
Like i said, if u were to compensate me for the 20min research time to provide u with a suitable link i would, but take the cookie! its not a frog.
On ur second point tho yeh we are screwed the ap system is here to stay if not on a wpn it will be on us or a ring or a magical goat that farts fire

[KrotosTheTank]

Your ego is like out to here [ <------------------------------------------> ]

How can someone be wrong about expressing what they do or don't like.

I completely understand the intent of the system. I also understand that I will be pretty close to 52 by the time ToS launches.

Just because it is better, doesn't mean it isn't still a grind. People don't like the system. They don't like it. they would prefer the "grindiness" as you pointed out... simply be focused elsewhere. That's a preference.

Some of those traits though are crucial for class performance and without them... you're way underperforming. Hitting the next AP level... is so lackluster. You can try to sell it all you want but I don't care for it, and if you're paying attention, other people aren't either. I know people who quit prior to 7.2 and I know people that quite after 7.2 because they moved the goal posts. Misconception/misperception or not... people... don't... like... it.

"No, no, no, you do like it. Or you should like it because, x, y, & z." Nah I'm pretty sure I still don't like it.

Bottom line is, I didn't come here for you to try and sell it to me on Blizzard's behalf. There is really nothing I could at this point to speed up the process... it is... what it is, and I am doing everything I should to get where I "need" to be without killing myself grinding my dick off.

It is simply a factor to consider when discussing the future of Artifacts and AP.

I'm saying that it comes naturally by just playing the game as we always had, prior to AP. Unless you wish to grind for it, but that's your choice.

Who said I'm selling it on their behalf, I'm just picking apart flawed arguments. You don't have to like it, that's fine, but citing that people may not like it even though they don't know what it is: "Misconception/misperception or not... people... don't... like... it." is as dumb as you saying you hate the sky because it's green and you don't like the color green. I'm not arguing that you have to like the color green, I'm just saying to get your colors straight first.