Return of the Lich King expansion leaked on reddit?

[Deleted]

4. Frozen Vanguard are an ancient sect of Death Knights. What? Ancient DK's? All Dk's were created by the LK, there were none before him. Arthas was the first DK. (not counting horde warlock DK's)

The first Death Knights (that we know of) were created in the Second War on the orcish side. Way before the Lich King even existed.

[Deleted]

The first Death Knights (that we know of) were created in the Second War on the orcish side. Way before the Lich King even existed.

(not counting horde warlock DK's)
(NOT COUNTING horde warlock DK's)

Besides the Death Knights of the Orcish horde have nothing to do with the Death Knights of the Scourge.

[Tyrannica]

i think all hints to another scourge threat, because we had old god stuff in cata and sort of in panda too, but the last scourge invasion was long ago.

There are many hints, too. We won't travel to other planets, Ion said it lately in an interview.

We might see old gods/twilight hammer, nagas and the scourge combined. I mean, the LK is awakened and plotting allready. You just don't see scourge all over the place on the BS.

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Wait, what? So because he was never a good guy, that means he will come back as a good guy? Where is the logic in that?

And aside from that, it's not even true that he was never a good guy, he was a good guy until he picked up Frostmourne. Even if you think he turned bad when he purged Stratholme, you would at least have to admit that he was a good guy up to that point. So what you say makes exactly zero sense.

You don't get a joke, do you? If, Blizzard will bring him back, he might be back as a good guy, because he never was one. Not even before the culling of Stratholme.

He always was that arrogant brick, who turned ruthless for his vision of good. I thought thats clear by just playing the old allliance wc3 campaign? Also, abscence of pure rotting evil, does not mean you are a good person.

He never was, so for the pure irony of it and how blizzard worked it out for illidan he might turn into one, if brought back.

In that case i prefere him to stay dead/dead.

[Deleted]

How is that different from a tauren in a mount?

Also, what is wrong with vrykul?

It's actually a lot different.
Vyrkul? Lore-wise.

[Deleted]

It's actually a lot different.
Vyrkul? Lore-wise.

You should try explaining why. It's 2 oversized humanoids on small mounts. Same thing.

Lore is a tool to serve the gameplay, not the other way around. Besides, stop thinking of the vrykul as a whole. Much like say the pandaren, there can simply be a tribe of them that join. Again, lore is maleable and is there to serve the gameplay.

[Deleted]

(not counting horde warlock DK's)
(NOT COUNTING horde warlock DK's)

Besides the Death Knights of the Orcish horde have nothing to do with the Death Knights of the Scourge.

That's really a nonsensical statement. "There existed no DKs before the LK, except for the ones that did."

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That's obviously not cannon anymore since we now know illidan wasn't sitting on some throne whining, but rather preparing to invade legion worlds and defeat KJ

Except he really was. I mean he spent a lot of time talking to that skull.

[Deleted]

That's really a nonsensical statement. "There existed no DKs before the LK, except for the ones that did."

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What? Are you clinically insane or are you just trolling?

Orcish horde DeathKnights are not Scourge DeathKnights. Just because two things have the same name does not mean those two things are the same. I mean just use a tad of common sense. An expansion that revolves around the return of the LK would have little, if any, lore building with Orcish horde DeathKnights. Even if it did, do you really think the Orcish Deathknights would name themselves "The Frozen Vanguard" when, during the second war, they never got to Northrend.

But hey let's use your flawed logic for a second because it doesn't really disprove my point. So let's say the Orcish horde DeathKnights are the first Deathknights. The first Deathknight then was Gorefiend, created by Gul'dan during the second war. Now Varian was alive during the second war so let's say he was born the same day gorefiend was created. Now Varian is about 40 years old. So it's been 40 years since the first Orcish Deathknight was created. Now I don't know about you, but 40 years doesn't sound like an ancient order to me.

[chrisnumbers]

Really sit down and think about what you just said there.

Think about the Draenei and the Blood Elves. And realize that with Legion Blood Elves have gotten one more class and Draenei haven't. So, either the classes between those two races have been unbalanced before Legion, or they are now.

Now let's look at them more closely.

When introduced, Draenei had 6 classes, plus DK in Wrath and Monk in MoP, makes it 8.
When introduced, Blood Elves had 6 classes, plus DK in Wrath, Warrior in Cataclysm, Monk in MoP and Demon Hunter in Legion, makes it 10.

So they started out both with 6 classes, but over the years, Blood Elves got more classes than Draenei. Because really, balance doesn't matter, it only matter whether the classes make sense or not.

If they can't come up with the same number of classes for both races, they are not gonna shoehorn something in there.

It only matters at launch.

[Wildberry]

What? Are you clinically insane or are you just trolling?

To play devil's advocate, suppose that the term "Death Knight" here is being used very loosely (similar to what we've seen with other leaks). It could be referring to a band of Revenants similar to those guarding Frostmourne.

[Deleted]

What? Are you clinically insane or are you just trolling?

Orcish horde DeathKnights are not Scourge DeathKnights.

And? Where they come from doesn't matter. They are still Death Knights. You're arguing about a line talking about "an ancient sect of Death Knights" saying that that can't be because the first and only Death Knights that were created came from the Lich King... when there are actually Death Knights that were created before him. So why can't there be Death Knights having been created even before that? Because we never heard of it? We hadn't heard of the Vrykul prior to Wrath, because they hadn't been made up yet.

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It only matters at launch.

Your arbitrary rules?

[Deleted]

You should try explaining why. It's 2 oversized humanoids on small mounts. Same thing.

Lore is a tool to serve the gameplay, not the other way around. Besides, stop thinking of the vrykul as a whole. Much like say the pandaren, there can simply be a tribe of them that join. Again, lore is maleable and is there to serve the gameplay.

If they don't fit the lore, and the both look retarded as a playable race, why make them? Let's make the Red Dragonflight join the alliance and the Blue Dragonflight with the horde. Both look retarded when mounted on dragons from oposite flights, and don't fit the lore. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit. Get over it.

[Deleted]

If they don't fit the lore, and the both look retarded as a playable race, why make them? Let's make the Red Dragonflight join the alliance and the Blue Dragonflight with the horde. Both look retarded when mounted on dragons from oposite flights, and don't fit the lore. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit. Get over it.

Vrykul don't fit the Alliance and Ogres don't fit the Horde? Ok.

[Deleted]

If they don't fit the lore, and the both look retarded as a playable race, why make them? Let's make the Red Dragonflight join the alliance and the Blue Dragonflight with the horde. Both look retarded when mounted on dragons from oposite flights, and don't fit the lore. If it doesn't fit, it doesn't fit. Get over it.

Hmm... now that is opinion.

Not that i like them, but i see no reason why they couldn't be. Vrykul make alot of sense IF this were to be the expansion.

[chrisnumbers]

Your arbitrary rules?

No that's the pattern.

[Wildberry]

No that's the pattern.

No, it's just you grasping for straws, because your original point was demolished.

[Christonya]

Again, you are being obtuse on purpose. Do Necromancers in WoW wear plate armor and wield runeblades? Do they look like the guys in the first 2 pictures I linked at the top of the last page? Telling Necromancer fans to just go play Unholy DKs, is like telling Demon Hunter fans to go play a Demonology Warlock.

Alright, let's try this then.

Given the obvious extreme similarities between an UH DK and a necromancer, how could they possibly release a necromancer that plays differently enough that those playing it arn't saying "This is just an unholy DK without a 2h.."? Another obvious question then becomes, given that UH DKs in terms of game play, play effectively how they're played in W3, how would you change them to allow room for a necromancer? -- And that of course leads to the question, how do you change an existing class without pissing off every one that's been playing it for years.

You may not like it but UH DKs ARE wow's version of the necromancer. It is how they decided to handle the other wise generic necromancer class of other games. They changed it up to work with 2hs and plate, instead of cloth and staffs, ect.

[chrisnumbers]

No, it's just you grasping for straws, because your original point was demolished.

Nope that's actually the pattern.

[Wildberry]

Nope that's actually the pattern.

No, it's not, I'm really not quite sure what else can be said. We don't even have enough new races to establish a proper pattern.

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You may not like it but UH DKs ARE wow's version of the necromancer. It is how they decided to handle the other wise generic necromancer class of other games. They changed it up to work with 2hs and plate, instead of cloth and staffs, ect.

Necromancer could, in theory, borrow from the realm of Apothecaries, and Liches. Hell, even the Apothecary bit would be nice with a Scourge twist. Imagine utilizing plague cauldrons for AoE?

[Deleted]

Necromancer could, in theory, borrow from the realm of Apothecaries, and Liches. Hell, even the Apothecary bit would be nice with a Scourge twist. Imagine utilizing plague cauldrons for AoE?

Damn that sounds awesome.

[Sammonoske]

Necromancer pet tank? Good luck getting that to work with precise movement needed for raids these days.