7.2.5 : Crit Haste ?

[Deleted]

Hi everyone !

After testing the new DH gameplay on PTR 7.2.5, many questions comes to me, especialy about stats.

As the fury generation will change, does haste will be more important than mastery for this new patch ?
So our stats will be crit > haste > mastery > versa ?

Also, have you tried the new fel barrage ? It looks really fun to play, because of cd reduction with attack and the fact that you can do anything else while it's casting (you need to try to understand what I mean), but does it worth it compared to chaos blade ? I mean, if we focus on haste, the cd of fel barrage will be really short right ?

What about legendary ? Anger is nerf (again and again and again) so if haste is becoming an important stat, maybe sephuz would be a great choice ?

What do you all think about this guys ?!

[Deix-EU]

Hi everyone !

After testing the new DH gameplay on PTR 7.2.5, many questions comes to me, especialy about stats.

As the fury generation will change, does haste will be more important than mastery for this new patch ?
So our stats will be crit > haste > mastery > versa ?

Also, have you tried the new fel barrage ? It looks really fun to play, because of cd reduction with attack and the fact that you can do anything else while it's casting (you need to try to understand what I mean), but does it worth it compared to chaos blade ? I mean, if we focus on haste, the cd of fel barrage will be really short right ?

What about legendary ? Anger is nerf (again and again and again) so if haste is becoming an important stat, maybe sephuz would be a great choice ?

What do you all think about this guys ?!

The word "will" when nothing is in a steady state shouldn't be used imho.
As a rule, haste is always superior until you have sufficient fury input to make it for a semi constant flow of damage, acting like a "cap".
Sim / own tests will answer your questions but time hasn't come yet.

[pitakos]

You cant tell for sure yet, but i highly doubt about haste. Blade dance will also become a fury generator, and along with the buff on demon blades my guess is the generation will be more than enough. Haven't done any math and I am just guessing here, but I think it will still be around 10% haste then crit>mastery or versatility depending your spec.


The class is not designed around attack speed, and checking your damage you will see auto attack is in the bottom of it. The logic is that you need enough haste to boost your fury generation (if specced into demon blades), mastery or versatility to boost your damage (single target versus aoe/bloodlet specs) , and critical being somewhat the hybrid between the two.

Even if AofHG becomes reduntant, I don't see sephuz becoming tier 1 legendary (maybe in a fight where you can have a lot of procs) , since there are better options. Shoulders and belt will still be top tier, and Prydaz gives loads of stats with the shield becoming better and better with the moreilvl you get , head and trinket are great for aoe, and wrists are great for cleave.

[gaaara]

with everything combined, we should have a haste cap to reach.

[SnorlaxJeng]

Here is the chronological thought process:
1. Can you maintain a GCD cap rotation with neutral fury upkeep without T20 2p?
No. Upkeep is not sustainable

2. With T20 2p factored in? Yes.
There will be overflow during Chaotic Onslaught criticals.

3. If Blade Dance is priority 1 in rotation where does Mastery rank in stat priority compared to it's current state?
Lower, due to the fact that Haste pushes blade dance CD down meaning less Chaos strike/s (Not quantity to fury ratio but the frequency of Chaos Strike) Which in turn reduces Chaos Blades value. (Yes, Chaos Blades does buff Blade Dance but it pales in comparison to double dipping of Chaos Strikes)

4.Legendary feasibility at such state?
-Raddon loses value due to lowered mastery.
-Delusion gains value due to fury consumption rate.
-Cinidaria loses due to Chaos Blade's state of affairs.
-Mo'arg gains due to reduced CD. But loses if paired with Delusion due to no fury consumption.
-AoTHG gains due to AA increase.
-Sephuz gains due to increased generation and consumption. Gains even more when paired with Delusion to push upkeep and consumption higher in T20 2p.
-Other legendaries have their status quo remain the same.

5. How would Critical/Haste affect talents?
-Tier 1: Fel Mastery- No gain ; Felblade- Gain ; Blind Fury- Loss
-Tier 2: Prepared- No gain ; Demon Blades- Gain ; Demonic Appetite-Gain with high risk of turning to loss.
-Tier 3: Chaos Cleave- Major Gain(Due to Chaotic Onslaught/Crit Refund/Mastery) ; First Blood- DPS/Generation Gain ; Bloodlet- DPS Gain
-Tier 4: Ignored
-Tier 5: Momentum- Minor gain ; Fel eruption- No gain ; Nemesis- Gain
-Tier 6: Master of Glaive- No gain ; Unleashed power- No gain ; Demon Reborn- Gain
-Tier 7: Chaos Blade- No gain~Loss ; Fel Barrage- Gain ; Demonic- Gain

And finally the hardest question. When should we drop T19 4p bonus? Will T19 2p + T20 4p provide better results or T19 4p + T20 2p? And if so T? 4+2 set would best go with which non tier slot legendaries?


Someone mentioned haste cap. That is only applicable if Demon Blades is selected.

[Extremity]

I didn't know they were changing Fel Barrage to be a cast that you can perform other actions during. That will be a nice change, this is confirmed? So while we are casting Fel Barrage, we're still auto attacking and can Chaos Strike, Blade Dance, etc? I can see that leading to some nice burst in PVP. High Fury, Meta, cast a 5-stack Fel Barrage while dumping Annihilations, gg.

[Deleted]

Fel barrage don't have 5 stack anymore. Now it's only one with 1min cd. This cd can be reduced with all your attack (it's like the battle cry of the warrior).
During the 2sec cast, I'm sure you can do other attack like blade dance, chaos strike or whatever, but not autoattack.

[SnorlaxJeng]

Fel barrage don't have 5 stack anymore. Now it's only one with 1min cd. This cd can be reduced with all your attack (it's like the battle cry of the warrior).
During the 2sec cast, I'm sure you can do other attack like blade dance, chaos strike or whatever, but not autoattack.

That would be incorrect. As of right now Fel Barrage is still a channel and 2 seconds at that which is REALLY bad. All things considered for the 2seconds channel to be worth it, Fel Barrage needs to do at least 2.5-3 times PTR damage about 5-6 times Live damage to be even worth being used.

[Killface1]

Here is the chronological thought process:
1. Can you maintain a GCD cap rotation with neutral fury upkeep without T20 2p?
No. Upkeep is not sustainable

2. With T20 2p factored in? Yes.
There will be overflow during Chaotic Onslaught criticals.

3. If Blade Dance is priority 1 in rotation where does Mastery rank in stat priority compared to it's current state?
Lower, due to the fact that Haste pushes blade dance CD down meaning less Chaos strike/s (Not quantity to fury ratio but the frequency of Chaos Strike) Which in turn reduces Chaos Blades value. (Yes, Chaos Blades does buff Blade Dance but it pales in comparison to double dipping of Chaos Strikes)

4.Legendary feasibility at such state?
-Raddon loses value due to lowered mastery.
-Delusion gains value due to fury consumption rate.
-Cinidaria loses due to Chaos Blade's state of affairs.
-Mo'arg gains due to reduced CD. But loses if paired with Delusion due to no fury consumption.
-AoTHG gains due to AA increase.
-Sephuz gains due to increased generation and consumption. Gains even more when paired with Delusion to push upkeep and consumption higher in T20 2p.
-Other legendaries have their status quo remain the same.

5. How would Critical/Haste affect talents?
-Tier 1: Fel Mastery- No gain ; Felblade- Gain ; Blind Fury- Loss
-Tier 2: Prepared- No gain ; Demon Blades- Gain ; Demonic Appetite-Gain with high risk of turning to loss.
-Tier 3: Chaos Cleave- Major Gain(Due to Chaotic Onslaught/Crit Refund/Mastery) ; First Blood- DPS/Generation Gain ; Bloodlet- DPS Gain
-Tier 4: Ignored
-Tier 5: Momentum- Minor gain ; Fel eruption- No gain ; Nemesis- Gain
-Tier 6: Master of Glaive- No gain ; Unleashed power- No gain ; Demon Reborn- Gain
-Tier 7: Chaos Blade- No gain~Loss ; Fel Barrage- Gain ; Demonic- Gain

And finally the hardest question. When should we drop T19 4p bonus? Will T19 2p + T20 4p provide better results or T19 4p + T20 2p? And if so T? 4+2 set would best go with which non tier slot legendaries?


Someone mentioned haste cap. That is only applicable if Demon Blades is selected.

New legendary throws those rankings out a bit. If we can run firstblood + bloodlet we will want to, probably on ST and definitely on any fight with cleave or AoE. New leggo ring + bracers are going to become MVP is my guess.

[Deix-EU]

Here is the chronological thought process:
1. Can you maintain a GCD cap rotation with neutral fury upkeep without T20 2p?
No. Upkeep is not sustainable

2. With T20 2p factored in? Yes.
There will be overflow during Chaotic Onslaught criticals.

3. If Blade Dance is priority 1 in rotation where does Mastery rank in stat priority compared to it's current state?
Lower, due to the fact that Haste pushes blade dance CD down meaning less Chaos strike/s (Not quantity to fury ratio but the frequency of Chaos Strike) Which in turn reduces Chaos Blades value. (Yes, Chaos Blades does buff Blade Dance but it pales in comparison to double dipping of Chaos Strikes)

4.Legendary feasibility at such state?
-Raddon loses value due to lowered mastery.
-Delusion gains value due to fury consumption rate.
-Cinidaria loses due to Chaos Blade's state of affairs.
-Mo'arg gains due to reduced CD. But loses if paired with Delusion due to no fury consumption.
-AoTHG gains due to AA increase.
-Sephuz gains due to increased generation and consumption. Gains even more when paired with Delusion to push upkeep and consumption higher in T20 2p.
-Other legendaries have their status quo remain the same.

5. How would Critical/Haste affect talents?
-Tier 1: Fel Mastery- No gain ; Felblade- Gain ; Blind Fury- Loss
-Tier 2: Prepared- No gain ; Demon Blades- Gain ; Demonic Appetite-Gain with high risk of turning to loss.
-Tier 3: Chaos Cleave- Major Gain(Due to Chaotic Onslaught/Crit Refund/Mastery) ; First Blood- DPS/Generation Gain ; Bloodlet- DPS Gain
-Tier 4: Ignored
-Tier 5: Momentum- Minor gain ; Fel eruption- No gain ; Nemesis- Gain
-Tier 6: Master of Glaive- No gain ; Unleashed power- No gain ; Demon Reborn- Gain
-Tier 7: Chaos Blade- No gain~Loss ; Fel Barrage- Gain ; Demonic- Gain

And finally the hardest question. When should we drop T19 4p bonus? Will T19 2p + T20 4p provide better results or T19 4p + T20 2p? And if so T? 4+2 set would best go with which non tier slot legendaries?


Someone mentioned haste cap. That is only applicable if Demon Blades is selected.

Whatever is speculated, we WON'T mix tier sets for only one reason. Blizzard doesn't want to and will clearly do what they must do to ensure it.
Plus, I'm pretty sure the ilvl to make it valuable comparing to say, heroic T20 or even other ToS gear is very high. Maybe some have titanforged mythic t19, good for them but this is not the majority. Even people nowadays don't raid Mythic as a whole.
In the end, blizzard lead, so take the hypothesis you'll get T20 + other gear with more agility (which favors a lot Blade Dance + Bloodlet build).
In the end, there is so much factor that we can only reason intuitively / with feelings.

[Soulfròst]

This is an exciting thread, lots of fun things to think about.

One thing I question, though, due to seeing it said so much, is why First Blood + Bloodlet, instead of First Blood + Chaos Cleave? Unless you have several fights like M-Botanist, you won't get much value from Mo'arg+Bloodlet. Chaos Cleave gives value to both single target and AoE situations. And it also synergizes very nicely with mastery + damage given from Chaos Blades/Nemesis which are always used together.

I played around on the PTR a bit last night (still had AOTHG on FWIW) and the fury gen was so consistent that I felt I'd have trouble not wasting fury while trying to keep a Bloodlet DoT up. Chaos Cleave just seems more reliable and befitting from our spec mechanics.

- - - Updated - - -

Edit: I was using 4pcT20 on PTR with the new trinkets (Infernal Cinders and Engine of Eradication)

[Extremity]

This is an exciting thread, lots of fun things to think about.

One thing I question, though, due to seeing it said so much, is why First Blood + Bloodlet, instead of First Blood + Chaos Cleave? Unless you have several fights like M-Botanist, you won't get much value from Mo'arg+Bloodlet. Chaos Cleave gives value to both single target and AoE situations. And it also synergizes very nicely with mastery + damage given from Chaos Blades/Nemesis which are always used together.

I played around on the PTR a bit last night (still had AOTHG on FWIW) and the fury gen was so consistent that I felt I'd have trouble not wasting fury while trying to keep a Bloodlet DoT up. Chaos Cleave just seems more reliable and befitting from our spec mechanics.

- - - Updated - - -

Edit: I was using 4pcT20 on PTR with the new trinkets (Infernal Cinders and Engine of Eradication)

I'm sure both are going to be great. Like you said, it's going to depend on the encounter - I also think it's going to depend on the legendaries the person has. If they want to run with bracers, do you still think Chaos Cleave would trump Bloodlet?

[Deix-EU]

I'm sure both are going to be great. Like you said, it's going to depend on the encounter - I also think it's going to depend on the legendaries the person has. If they want to run with bracers, do you still think Chaos Cleave would trump Bloodlet?

I guess it'll depend mainly to the level of stuff (crit / mastery) one has.

[Nize]

New legendary throws those rankings out a bit. If we can run firstblood + bloodlet we will want to, probably on ST and definitely on any fight with cleave or AoE. New leggo ring + bracers are going to become MVP is my guess.

First Blood + Chaos Cleave most likely for single target as Chaos Cleave is competitive and even beats out First Blood in single target for some.

Bloodlet maybe for cleave, but do remember that Bracers are getting cleaved in half. (25-50-75 instead of current 50-100-150)