Will Army of Light vs The Void Lords themed expansion finally unlock orcish priests?

[Polybius]

*snip*

- Believing in chaos doesn't make it fel or void. Elementals are chaotic, yet they're not fel or void.

- Iyyokuk doesn't even SAY that warlocks are priests. Iyyokuk isn't even a priest, you're grasping at straws here.

- Shamans commune with the elemental plane, and their ancestors.

- Necromancers play with death magic, which is totally different from fel. Even the Void and Shadowlands are separate from each other. As is the Twisting Nether.

You want to see holy wrath and holy fire in action? Play a paladin. Consecration and Holy Wrath. You want holy fire to rain down? Play a disc priest, use Holy Fire.

OP is speaking of Orc PRIESTS. Not 'priestly' orcs. Not orc warlocks. Orcs as warlocks within the Army of Light doesn't even make sense. Orc priests makes more sense considering the exchanges orcs have with their ancestors and their similarities with Troll and Tauren priest and shaman cultures.

Following your line: every race that has a warlock doesn't need a priest class because warlocks are 'priestly'. This is an absolutely false premise, proven by gameplay and lore. A dislike of Chris Metzen or any writer won't de-canonize what has already been established and clarified. You can't play a warlock and pretend you're a priest, and vice versa. Hell, they gave priests the Lovecraftian theme.

Going back to OPs point. Orc priests are possible, considering the class fantasy behind priests, and the involvement orcs have with the Twilight's Hammer and the Shadowmoon clan. The Army of Light would shed information about the orcs' ancestry.

[Camthur]

They could very easily justify Orc Priests. Orcs respect power. Just have an instance where somebody massively infuses the light into Orcs and gives them a dose of how strong they could be. That right there would probably give you Orc Paladins. It's just a hop skip and jump from there to Priests. Have some of the more mystic types come up with a way to connect the light with their ancestor worship and there ya go.

It doesn't even have to be really true. It just has to seem true to the Orcs. After all, the Light finds a way.

The only real hindrance here is that blizzard tries their best to keep any one group from following nature and the light at the same time. (which means you'd probably never seen Orc Druids if they gave them Priests)

[Cheapnecrolyte]

the Twisting Nether.

Your argument is pathetic and, at this point, it is clear you can't be taken seriously..not by me anyways. The Twisting Nether is still, in essence, the realm of the dead demons where demons go upon defeat. You would claim demons are living beings that can die during your sickening attempt to convince people that warlocks aren't necromancers who divine information from (or commune with) undead beings, but then deny that they're essentially mortals (living beings) whose mortal souls go to the Shadowlands. Look dude, if demons aren't living beings whose souls go to the realm of the dead upon death, you can't expect me to believe the demons that warlocks command are actually living beings that can die. Your word trickery is not fooling me here.

The demons that warlocks summon are from an astral dimension that transcends all realities and thus would be astral beings or unreal beings that don't come from reality. And, as anyone with a semi-functioning brain should know, unreal beings are neither dead or living. Infernals are just as non-living as death knights with flesh, hair, and souls tethered to demonic runeblades or just as non-living as liches that have their souls tethered to phylacteries. They don't even have free will or brains that function.

Necromancers play with death magic, which is totally different from fel.

Try harder. One of the first definitions of fel energy was given when Metzen described it as essentially death energy. Hypothetically, even if Metzen retconed fel energy to being something else, fel magic is still the magic of the Burning Legion, Scourge of a Thousand Worlds, which was created by Sargeras to scour all creation per the Chronicle. If Chris Metzen were to retcon fel magic being death magic, the necromancers of the Scourge would still essentially be warlocks who can afflict the living with fel contagions and use the necromantic energies of slain necrolytes whilst feigning allegiance to a demon lord such as Kil'jaeden or Mal'ganis. As I've stated before, try harder. Try harder because I remain unconvinced. Gul'dan had necromantic abilities because he was a warlock trained by an eredar warlock who has necromantic abilities. This isn't the RPG where warlocks can have necromantic abilities without truly being necromancers. This isn't World of Deceivers where warlocks are essentially fel parodies of conjurers who have overlapping abilities with blood mages or death knights and can harvest the demonic souls of demonic creatures without being necromancers who transform them into beings with no free will or no functioning brain.

Shamans commune with the elemental plane, and their ancestors.

Warlocks command deceitful demons that can take on the guise of elemental entities or ancestral spirits and even fool shaman into believing they are necromancers. Ner'zhul, the Greatly Deceived One, says hello from the Shadowlands?

Elementals are chaotic, yet they're not fel or void.

Fel elementals are chaotic, yet they're not fel? Given your logic, they aren't.

Iyyokuk doesn't even SAY that warlocks are priests. Iyyokuk isn't even a priest, you're grasping at straws here.

Actually, you're grasping at straws here. He is an arcane-using Klaxxi and Klaxxi means priest. Do your research before you state something that isn't true.

- Believing in chaos doesn't make it fel or void.

The arcane-using priest Iyyokuk believes chaos is order unrecognized by a lesser mind so, given his logic, he would have had you believe that fel (the force of chaos) is arcane (the force of order) and that warlocks are arcane-using priests. I wouldn't be surprised if warlocks can create arcane portals composed of the arcane energies of an arcane lake that priests believe Elune sleeps in and pull demons from them.

You want to see holy wrath and holy fire in action? Play a paladin. Consecration and Holy Wrath. You want holy fire to rain down? Play a disc priest, use Holy Fire.

Nah...I'll play an orc warlo....priest

OP is speaking of Orc PRIESTS. Not 'priestly' orcs. Not orc warlocks.

http://wow.gamepedia.com/Felsworn_Soulpriest

^This orc priest is essentially an orc warlock.

Orcs as warlocks within the Army of Light doesn't even make sense.

You know what would be cool? If there are orc warlocks who seek to obtain ultimate power or godhood through a light-based demon such as Lothraxion or a holy construct who wields fel magic, like the one at the Tomb of Sargeras.

A dislike of Chris Metzen or any writer won't de-canonize what has already been established and clarified.

You're right in this case, so just accept that felsworn soulpriests are warlocks. Your dislike of the fact that felsworn soulpriests are warlocks won't change the fact that they are warlocks.

You can't play a warlock and pretend you're a priest, and vice versa.

You need to learn the difference between can and can't. Of course you can play a warlock and pretend you're a priest.

[Aquamonkey]

Actually, you're grasping at straws here. He is an arcane-using Klaxxi and Klaxxi means priest. Do your research before you say something that isn't true.

"Klaxxi" meant "priest" in the old tongue. It's past tense. It doesn't mean that anymore.

[Cheapnecrolyte]

"Klaxxi" meant "priest" in the old tongue. It's past tense. It doesn't mean that anymore.

Oh, so Klaxxi has no meaning now or perhaps the definition of the term has been transformed into something different by Blizzard's wishy washy employees? Or perhaps you're just stating Klaxxi meant priest because you didn't pay attention to the Chronicle?

“Though a revered empress ruled over the day-to-day activities of the mantid, another group controlled the insectoids’ destiny. The members of this group called themselves the Klaxxi—meaning “priest” in their native tongue.”

Excerpt From: Entertainment, Blizzard. “World of Warcraft: Chronicle Volume 1.” Dark Horse Books, 2016-03-15. iBooks. This material may be protected by copyright.

[Aquamonkey]

Oh, so Klaxxi has no meaning now or perhaps the definition of the term has been transformed into something different by Blizzard's wishy washy employees? Or perhaps you're just stating Klaxxi meant priest because you didn't pay attention to the Chronicle?

That section of Chronicle is set 16,000 years before the Dark Portal. It is past tense and the "native tongue" being referenced is their old tongue just as the Pristine Praying Mantid archeology artifact states. Perhaps you should pay attention to the Chronicle?

[Cheapnecrolyte]

That section of Chronicle is set 16,000 years before the Dark Portal. It is past tense and the "native tongue" being referenced is their old tongue just as the Pristine Praying Mantid archeology artifact states. Perhaps you should pay attention to the Chronicle?

Monkey of the agua, the Chronicle clearly establishes that Klaxxi means priest. Just because that section of the Chronicle is set 16,000 years before the Dark Portal doesn't mean the events of that time changed or that the definitions of terms used at that time has changed. Klaxxi is Klaxxi and Klaxxi means priest. Also, Chronicle supersedes your source.

[Aquamonkey]

Monkey of the agua, the Chronicle clearly establishes that Klaxxi means priest. Just because that section of the Chronicle is set 16,000 years before the Dark Portal doesn't mean the events of that time changed or that the definitions of terms used at that time has changed. Klaxxi is Klaxxi and Klaxxi means priest.

Nothing in Chronicle contradicts the archeology artifact. "Klaxxi" meant "priest" 16,000 years ago. The archeology artifact clearly indicates that was the old definition. It doesn't mean that anymore.

[Cheapnecrolyte]

Nothing in Chronicle contradicts the archeology artifact. "Klaxxi" meant "priest" 16,000 years ago. The archeology artifact clearly indicates that was the old definition. It doesn't mean that anymore.

Chronicle supersedes your source.

Chronicle clearly establishes that Klaxxi means priest.

^Monkey of the agua. This isn't hard. The Chronicle supersedes your source and the Chronicle clearly establishes that Klaxxi means priest.

[Aquamonkey]

^Monkey of the agua. This isn't hard. The Chronicle supersedes your source and the Chronicle clearly establishes that Klaxxi means priest.

You're right, it isn't hard. It's past tense. It meant priest 16,000 years ago. Chronicle doesn't say anything to contradict the archeology artifact.

[DaHomieG]

Only if their leader will be redeemed garrosh heavenscream.

lmaoooooooooo

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

You people take things way too literal. Army of light doesn't mean everybody will be a priest or a paladin, it just means "the good guys".

- - - Updated - - -

Steadfast at his side are Kargath Candlefist, Ner'zhesus and Gul'dawn.

Had me at Gul'dawn.

Grassy plains, unicorns trotting in the background, sun rising(duh). The wind blowing Gul'dawn's smooth, silky, l'oreal hair. Someone needs to get on top of that, for science.

[Aucald]

^Monkey of the agua. This isn't hard. The Chronicle supersedes your source and the Chronicle clearly establishes that Klaxxi means priest.

To supersede something would require that the two topics intersect, or otherwise conflict. These two topics do not intersect or conflict, and therefore there is nothing to supersede. "Klaxxi" meant "Priest" in the Aqiri tongue 16,000 years before the current age. Now Klaxxi is an honorific for a specific Mantid sect that doesn't mean anything in particular anymore - it's a loanword from past version of the language. Even if it did still explicitly mean "priest" that's not material to the debate - it goes back to the whole class vs. label debate. Someone using "priest" as a label could technically be of *any* class. A Warrior could call themselves a priest of war or of battle and that would be a fine usage of the term. What they couldn't be, however; is an actual Priest class. Those are separate and mutually exclusive.

[Cheapnecrolyte]

Klaxxi is an honorific for a specific Mantid sect that doesn't mean anything in particular anymore

Oh...so a word doesn't have any meaning anymore because you claim so? I don't believe so. Where is your source stating that Klaxxi no longer means priest? Clearly there is confliction here because whereas I'm stating Klaxxi means priest because the Chronicle establishes that it does, you and aquamonkey are essentially stating Klaxxi no longer means priest because of a source older than the Chronicle.

To supersede something would require that the two topics intersect, or otherwise conflict. These two topics do not intersect or conflict, and therefore there is nothing to supersede.

"Klaxxi" meant "Priest" in the Aqiri tongue 16,000 years before the current age.

Even if it did still explicitly mean "priest" that's not material to the debate - it goes back to the whole class vs. label debate

This isn't a matter of if. The Chronicle establishes that the term Klaxxi means priest and there isn't a single source more recent than the Chronicle that establishes that it now means something else or that it lost its meaning. Whatever source aquamonkey is referring to clearly conflicts with what the Chronicle establishes because the Chronicle establishes that Klaxxi means priest whereas the source aquamonkey is referring to claims that it meant priest...unless Aquamonkey isn't telling the truth of course.

You're right

Am I? If I am, why are you having a hard time understanding this?

it isn't hard.

Clearly it's hard for you.

It's past tense. It meant priest 16,000 years ago. Chronicle doesn't say anything to contradict the archeology artifact.

My source supersedes your source so, until you present me with a source more recent than the Chronicle that outright contradicts what the Chronicle establishes in regards to this matter, Klaxxi still means priest. Who are you to decide whether or not a term has no definition or that the definition of a term changes just because the term it defines was used in the past? Given your logic, apple is a word no longer defined as a fruit because apple is a word used by people in the past. Hey...times change ehh?

Someone using "priest" as a label could technically be of *any* class. A Warrior could call themselves a priest of war or of battle and that would be a fine usage of the term. What they couldn't be, however; is an actual Priest class. Those are separate and mutually exclusive.

No, a warrior couldn't. That would definitely not be a fine usage of the term because the term priest has specific definitions. Priests (with a capital p) are priests and a priest CAN be defined as a person who has the authority to lead or perform spiritual rituals. While you can claim that the priests of WoW aren't defined as leaders who lead rituals in which acolytes assist them because you don't want people thinking warlocks are acolytes or priests, you still can't really change the fact that warlocks are either priests who lead rituals of summoning in which acolytes assist them or acolytes who assist a warlock master/trainer in rituals of summoning in which demonic creatures and their demonic spirits are summon and bound.

I mean, if you pay close attention to WC1, you can learn that the warlocks of WC1 are essentially acolytes (followers) of the underworld who have rituals but can't raise the dead as if they're necrolytes. It is claimed that they have a spell that summons a daemon, but most - if not all - WC1 information about how to summon and control a daemon is based off of legends, myths, and rumors. And why is that? It claims that orcs are disciples of chaos and that daemons are the true lords of chaos, so am I suppose to believe orc warlocks (the disciples of chaos) are the gods or masters of daemons (the true lords of chaos)? NO, I AM NOT. Gul'dan - as a warlock - was not the master of demons because he was a servant who served the demon who gave him his power as a warlock and I doubt warlocks can enslave a demonic creature with a governing magic such as fel magic without being a god, necrolyte, or necromancer who can harvest the demonic souls of demonic creatures and transform them into beings with no free will or no functioning mind, "governing" their fate.

[Deleted]

The Army of Light in the title suggests that there could be a larger scale Light follower faction that could teach orcs the ways of being a holy priest. Orc have natural tendency for dark magicks so a shadow priest already makes sense.

[Aucald]

Oh...so a word doesn't have any meaning anymore because you claim so? I don't believe so. Where is your source stating that Klaxxi no longer means priest? Clearly there is confliction here because whereas I'm stating Klaxxi means priest because the Chronicle establishes that it does, you and aquamonkey are essentially stating Klaxxi no longer means priest because of a source older than the Chronicle.

You can view the origin of the word "Klaxxi" on the relevant artifact from MoP: The Praying Mantid. It refers to the word "klaxxi" meaning "priest" in the old tongue, and dates to around the arrival of the Titans on Azeroth. The Klaxxi as an organization were once the priests of their chosen patron Old God Y'Shaarj, but now their role is to oversee the Paragons, to serve as stewards of Mantid culture and history, and to act as a check to the Mantid queens to ensure their loyalty is to the Swarm. They aren't priests anymore because the god they served, Y'Shaarj, died when Aman'thul personally killed him. They hold no reverence for the Sha, Y'Shaarj's most immediate successor (being the emanations of his nature upon death).

This isn't a matter of if. The Chronicle establishes that the term Klaxxi means priest and there isn't a single source more recent than the Chronicle that establishes that it now means something else or that it lost its meaning. Whatever source aquamonkey is referring to clearly conflicts with what the Chronicle establishes because the Chronicle establishes that Klaxxi means priest whereas the source aquamonkey is referring to claims that it meant priest...unless Aquamonkey isn't telling the truth of course.

No one is saying that the term didn't mean "priest," Chronicle and the original source of the word's meaning are in agreement on the word's meaning. The issue here is in usage, not meaning. The Klaxxi no longer act as priests of anything - their god is dead, there is nothing left for them to worship. The modern Klaxxi are more historians and scholars than they are priests, the only remaining link they have to the old role is the name they bear. You are also confusing several of the Paragons with the Klaxxi - the Paragons are ancient Mantid preserved by the Mantid's Amber-based magic, many of them still hold to old views about the Old Gods because they are literally from the past.

No, a warrior couldn't. That would definitely not be a fine usage of the term because the term priest has specific definitions. Priests (with a capital p) are priests and a priest CAN be defined as a person who has the authority to lead or perform spiritual rituals. While you can claim that the priests of WoW aren't defined as leaders who lead rituals in which acolytes assist them because you don't want people thinking warlocks are acolytes or priests, you still can't really change the fact that warlocks are either priests who lead rituals of summoning in which acolytes assist them or acolytes who assist a warlock master/trainer in rituals of summoning in which demonic creatures and their demonic spirits are summon and bound.

There's nothing about being a Warrior (class) that precludes an individual from leading or performing spiritual rituals, having or managing other acolytes, or even communing with and doing the work of a god-like patron (Odyn has frequent conversations with lots of Warriors). They can do any and all of the things that fall under the "priest" label - but they still are not of the Priest class and cannot use the class's abilities in any way shape or form. Mind you, I'm stretching believability here to prove a point - a person calling themselves a priest isn't the same as being a literal Priest (class). A Warlock calling themselves a priest of Sargeras can't take Shadowform/Voidform, they can't cast Mind Flay, or Shadow Word: Death, or Void Eruption. A Priest regardless of their calling can't summon Legion demons, they can't cast Chaos Bolts, or Immolate their opponents - they aren't a Warlock (class).

[Aquamonkey]

My source supersedes your source so, until you present me with a source more recent than the Chronicle that outright contradicts what the Chronicle establishes in regards to this matter, Klaxxi still means priest. Who are you to decide whether or not a term has no definition or that the definition of a term changes just because the term it defines was used in the past? Given your logic, apple is a word no longer defined as a fruit because apple is a word used by people in the past. Hey...times change ehh?

Chronicle never said that "Klaxxi" still means "priest". It states that it meant "priest" 16,000 years ago. Chronicle uses past tense and that passage is set 16,000 years ago. It does not conflict with the MoP artifact.

[Magical Mudcrab]

<..snip..>

Orcs don't need Priests, they have Dark Shaman.

[Gaidax]

Such things simply can't pop overnight. Orc priests? From where?

At the very least there needs to be some basis for that or some credible trigger, there is none at the moment.

[Venziir]

Such things simply can't pop overnight. Orc priests? From where?

At the very least there needs to be some basis for that or some credible trigger, there is none at the moment.

The ability to commune with the ancestors at Oshu'gun was because of the Holy Light leaking out of a Naaru, and the Pale were orcs who communed with the Void itself, and look at the WoD Shadowmoon Clan and the whole ordeal of the Dark Star. So, that's both Holy and Shadow taken care off, and even it that's too farfetched, we could have a bunch of orcs who studied the Light in Silvermoon or An'she in Thunder Bluff, just like how orc mages were explained by a bunch of orcs studying the arcane in Undercity. And as for the Void/Shadow, that doesn't really have any requirements, other than being insane and willing to unravel the entire tapestry of order by studying absurd texts - Shadow Priests are, basically, Lovecraftian cultists by now, "Ia Ia Yog-sSothoth" and all that.