New Frost T20 booring?

[kaesden]

They are saying on the official forums that the free obliterate does proc Throne breaker- which is nice. I'm not sure if it procs the other obliterate stuff (rime, overpowered rune weapon etc...)

Who is they and is there any proof one way or the other yet? Someone on these forums has said it doesn't prof anything extra. How it works will significantly impact the usefulness of this bonus especially if it generates extra RP. If it doesn't generate extra RP it's basically useless for the BOS build. And since the MG build is so far behind BOS it's just irrelevant.

[Siraeyou]

They are saying on the official forums that the free obliterate does proc Throne breaker- which is nice. I'm not sure if it procs the other obliterate stuff (rime, overpowered rune weapon etc...)

Everywhere I have looked on the official forums has just been people hoping/suggesting that the proc does as you say. Everyone who has actually tested it on the PTR (and talked about their findings on the Discord channel) have confirmed it does literally nothing of the sort. Whether or not this changes will make the 2set bonus either completely worthless or (almost) acceptable.

The 4 piece is still an embarrassment of a bonus.

[RuneDK]

Thats what happens if people start to wine about bos (which really is the only skill reliant frost gameplay) and bos specific setbonuses.

Just this set doesn't harm the BoS build in the slightest.

[chaosmage]

I don't mean to sound rude or anything, but that tier is way more creative then the current 19tier, i mean 2pc 20% up on rime 4pc 8 rp on using rime. this new tier actually sounds interesting. either way both don't change your game play. and their are alot of dk that dread the Breath build, the machine gun build is so much better in my opinion and should be viable, if this helps it i'm all for this tier set.

[connor778]

I don't mean to sound rude or anything, but that tier is way more creative then the current 19tier, i mean 2pc 20% up on rime 4pc 8 rp on using rime. this new tier actually sounds interesting. either way both don't change your game play. and their are alot of dk that dread the Breath build, the machine gun build is so much better in my opinion and should be viable, if this helps it i'm all for this tier set.

you have no idea what you're talking about. Im sorry if I sound rude but its obvious you don't know the spec.

[kaesden]

I don't mean to sound rude or anything, but that tier is way more creative then the current 19tier, i mean 2pc 20% up on rime 4pc 8 rp on using rime. this new tier actually sounds interesting. either way both don't change your game play.

Couldn't disagree more. T19 was a simple set bonus for sure, but it did actually impact gameplay in that it would change up your rotation ever so slightly as you're getting more rime procs to weave in, without T19, our rotation will end up just oblit spam. The new tier by any definition is boring, and can be actively bad for the BOS spec. the 2pc bonus is basically just "once in a while oblit will hit harder than usual." and the 4pc with the frost strike procs, could actually cause you to have breath drop early if you waste a gcd spending that proc at the wrong time. Sure there's some skill in know when its safe to use and when not to use it, but a set *bonus* shouldn't be making you play a game of "will this penalize me?" when it procs. The design just feels bad.

and their are alot of dk that dread the Breath build, the machine gun build is so much better in my opinion and should be viable, if this helps it i'm all for this tier set.

I understand there are people who don't like the breath build, but calling machine gun better is just wrong. Its not better, its just less. Its like playing the breath spec while breath is recharging except you're doing this all the time. I don't think the non-breath builds are tuned properly though, it shouldn't be lagging nearly as far behind as it is, as having only one viable talent spec, for all situations, from single target, to light cleave, to heavy cleave, to mass AOE, to heavy movement fights, the only correct answer currently is BOS, and the only talent option, horn of valor vs freezing fog, can be useful until you get the right legendaries, then freezing fog once you have the right gear. Anything else is just wrong, and THIS is what feels bad. There's the correct build, and there's vastly suboptimal traps in every other[non-utility] row.

[Deleted]

Just this set doesn't harm the BoS build in the slightest.

It is very very bad numerical wise.

I did a sim:

With T194P: 933k
Without anyset bonus:834k
Assuming 2pT20 is 10% more damage on Obliterate: 849k (15k more obliterate dmg)

So do the math. 4pT20 looks pretty weak, like 446k dmg per free FS. Sims use obliterate every 3sec, so assuming you can use free FS procs without overcapping and off GCD, it is like 2 extra FS/minute. So thats the maxium gain of 4p. In reality it will be worse because using might lead to Breath getting shorter or overcapping ressources.

But just to the math. 446k*2/60 = 15k.

So according to this, changing from 4pT19 to 4pT20 (with same stats) is a big dps loss.

DPS would go down from 933k to 864k.

While T19 was a 11.6% dps gain, T20 would be a 3.5% dps gain. That's a ridicilously weak 4pbonus for Breathspec. T19 would be have 331% value compared to T20.

T20 is a ridivilously weak set bonus unless there will be more synergies. But T20 is far far away from not being a big nerf. I dont think frost will be viable with that T20 set bonus. Would be last at single target.

I believe we are getting closer to the idea of having to go Unholy. And if unholy sucks, well... time to reroll.

Just look where frost would be single target wise with 8% less dps.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#boss=1842

In this example frost would go down to 766k, which is very low.

[exeetor]

It is very very bad numerical wise.

I did a sim:

With T194P: 933k
Without anyset bonus:834k
Assuming 2pT20 is 10% more damage on Obliterate: 849k (15k more obliterate dmg)

So do the math. 4pT20 looks pretty weak, like 446k dmg per free FS. Sims use obliterate every 3sec, so assuming you can use free FS procs without overcapping and off GCD, it is like 2 extra FS/minute. So thats the maxium gain of 4p. In reality it will be worse because using might lead to Breath getting shorter or overcapping ressources.

But just to the math. 446k*2/60 = 15k.

So according to this, changing from 4pT19 to 4pT20 (with same stats) is a big dps loss.

DPS would go down from 933k to 864k.

While T19 was a 11.6% dps gain, T20 would be a 3.5% dps gain. That's a ridicilously weak 4pbonus for Breathspec. T19 would be have 331% value compared to T20.

T20 is a ridivilously weak set bonus unless there will be more synergies. But T20 is far far away from not being a big nerf. I dont think frost will be viable with that T20 set bonus. Would be last at single target.

I believe we are getting closer to the idea of having to go Unholy. And if unholy sucks, well... time to reroll.

Just look where frost would be single target wise with 8% less dps.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/11#boss=1842

In this example frost would go down to 766k, which is very low.

Did you calc. the thronebreaker damage and such aswell? Cause if the procc does not procc what a regular Oblit can proc then the set is reaaaally lackluster. Giving a 10% dmg increase on Oblit really is totaly useless!

[Deleted]

Did you calc. the thronebreaker damage and such aswell? Cause if the procc does not procc what a regular Oblit can proc then the set is reaaaally lackluster. Giving a 10% dmg increase on Oblit really is totaly useless!

Read here and discord. Right now 2p procs nothing. No rime, no thronebreaker, no extra rp.

And 4p is just very very bad by design.

And 2p means about 1 proc every 30sec. Even if Thronebreaker procced it would be weak.

I am more concerned about 4p cause it is so lackluster. A weak 2p can be balanced by a strong 4p, but as both are weak 4p has a crappy mechanic...

[exeetor]

its not just weak... its booring aswell imo. It gives nothing gameplay wise and you wont even notice the 2p. And since we basically are GCD capped during BoS the 4p will be crap as it is right now aswell. Kinda bad