Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst
1
2
3
LastLast
  1. #21
    So guys as someone considering a reroll to Rogue(somehow our guild suddenly needs melee and we're 9/10 mythic) I'm wondering how leggos dependent each spec is.

    I played around with all 3 specs while leveling in legion and I've played rogue in the past, I've read all icy veins guides so I've done some level of research.

    I got a KJ trinket as my first leggo on the rogue(which really pissed me off) so I'm off to a bad start right away but how leggo dependent is each spec. I was considering focusing on Sub for ToS and prepping the reroll between now and then.

  2. #22
    Subtlety is extremely legendary-dependent, but you do have some options. The Mantle is a massive dps gain (and it will impact your rotation), and the boots are important for both quality of life and for minimizing the impact of RNG on energy regeneration. The bracers synergize amazingly well with CoF and represent your best option if you're missing one of the above two. The back is all but necessary in order to compete in AoE fights.

    I do not have Will of Valeera, but I understand it's invaluable in fights where your group has enough dps as it will take a lot of pressure off your healers.
    Last edited by Bowshewicz; 2017-05-12 at 04:10 PM.

  3. #23
    Deleted
    I am kind of tired of Assa and thinking about re-rolling. Seen an outlaw rogue in m+ doing 1.5mil average dps in CoS and got super jelly I mean, cmon, it doesnt even have large pulls...

    So anyway, here are my thoughts:
    Outlaw: let's face it, double thunder fury looks fkin hot. right? Potentially quite face roll which is never bad. Also i have a ton of 905+ gear with haste that i don't use as assa, so it might get me +5-10 ilvls as outlaw or even sub.
    Sub: potentially a better spec and i see so few sub rogues around that i might be a special snowflake which is always nice

    My legends: mantle, cloak, KJ, Valeera, belt, muti boots, prydaz. If i stay muti my next leg is either one of the rings or bracers. If i get the right ring i am all set for Outlaw.
    Any hints on what might get buffed / nerfed?
    Last edited by mmocec3e53fc92; 2017-05-12 at 06:30 PM.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by 1i3t0 View Post
    I am kind of tired of Assa and thinking about re-rolling. Seen an outlaw rogue in m+ doing 1.5mil average dps in CoS and got super jelly I mean, cmon, it doesnt even have large pulls...

    So anyway, here are my thoughts:
    Outlaw: let's face it, double thunder fury looks fkin hot. right? Potentially quite face roll which is never bad. Also i have a ton of 905+ gear with haste that i don't use as assa, so it might get me +5-10 ilvls as outlaw or even sub.
    Sub: potentially a better spec and i see so few sub rogues around that i might be a special snowflake which is always nice

    My legends: mantle, cloak, KJ, Valeera, belt, muti boots, prydaz. If i stay muti my next leg is either one of the rings or bracers. If i get the right ring i am all set for Outlaw.
    Any hints on what might get buffed / nerfed?
    Haste is the worst stat for outlaw though. You want to have as much versatility as possible.

  5. #25
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by manboiler View Post
    Haste is the worst stat for outlaw though. You want to have as much versatility as possible.
    Wrong, haste is bis up to a certain amount, then its second best.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Khrux View Post
    So guys as someone considering a reroll to Rogue(somehow our guild suddenly needs melee and we're 9/10 mythic) I'm wondering how leggos dependent each spec is.

    I played around with all 3 specs while leveling in legion and I've played rogue in the past, I've read all icy veins guides so I've done some level of research.

    I got a KJ trinket as my first leggo on the rogue(which really pissed me off) so I'm off to a bad start right away but how leggo dependent is each spec. I was considering focusing on Sub for ToS and prepping the reroll between now and then.

    Outlaw and sub are both heavily dependent on legendaries. U need strong legos to do any kind of decent dps.
    Assa also gain some pretty big boost from legos, but it can still perform well without them (rng is a bigger factor most of the times).

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Problem is that you need to get all your legendaries to try every specc, right? Sure the AK / AP thing eventually catches up, and even with 35 / 36 points in a specc you catch up quickly if you like another more.

    So you could play the class fantasy (my orc rogue is assassin) or try them all out and play the one that is the must fluid to you, where you don't have to think "what button next"

    (As a warlock, Destro is just more comfortable for me than Demo)
    U really just need shoulders. They're bis for all 3 specs. Stick with assa loot spec until u get them (and possibly boots and wrist as well ) , then switch to outlaw till you get greenskins.

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Wunju View Post
    Wrong, haste is bis up to a certain amount, then its second best.
    Since when?
    Versatility has always been the strongest for outlaw and then it's either crit/mastery.

    I've even checked now a couple of websites and it's still the same (haste being the worst). It wouldn't make sense anyways actually as outlaw does rely purely on pure dmg output.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Halobob87 View Post
    Outlaw and sub are both heavily dependent on legendaries. U need strong legos to do any kind of decent dps.
    Assa also gain some pretty big boost from legos, but it can still perform well without them (rng is a bigger factor most of the times).

    - - - Updated - - -



    U really just need shoulders. They're bis for all 3 specs. Stick with assa loot spec until u get them (and possibly boots and wrist as well ) , then switch to outlaw till you get greenskins.
    Regarding legis for outlaw this isn't true. You don't really rely on any legendary for excellent dps. The only thing you really need as outlaw are all the atrifact traits, especially Loaded Dice.
    Last edited by RobertMugabe; 2017-05-13 at 01:04 PM.

  8. #28
    Since outlaw is outdpsed by assa in ST there is no reason to use it in an ST fight. Outlaw is king in m+ when you have the weapon near your main one. Since you use bladeflurry there a lot and if you have shoulders + ring haste should be the second best stat after versa. For m+ it looks something like that versa>haste>mastery>>>crit.
    With TB and the reduced cd on vanish, crit is not worth it in m+. For ST you are right, but i remember that for outlaw a good mix of stats would be better than purely going into versa+crit and since shoulders are widely used crit lost value.

  9. #29
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Bowshewicz View Post
    Subtlety is extremely legendary-dependent, but you do have some options. The Mantle is a massive dps gain (and it will impact your rotation), and the boots are important for both quality of life and for minimizing the impact of RNG on energy regeneration. The bracers synergize amazingly well with CoF and represent your best option if you're missing one of the above two. The back is all but necessary in order to compete in AoE fights.

    I do not have Will of Valeera, but I understand it's invaluable in fights where your group has enough dps as it will take a lot of pressure off your healers.
    I have the mantle, bracers and CoF but haven't tried sub thinking i need the boots to excel. How would i fair with those? Are the boots a must have? Looking to switch from Sin to Sub in ToS to try something different

  10. #30
    Since boots only give 3 energy they are no must. With bracers and cof your shblades uptime should be really high resulting in 3 SS + 2 Finisher inside dance to avoid cp capping. With boots the amount of SS cast goes up but with bracers the amount of evicerates cast go up.
    Personally i think shoulders+bracers is bis because we can offset the "energy" loss of the boots with 10% haste and don'tr forget shtechnics give also energy.
    The boots are just a shadow of what they once were. My char sims with bracers + shoulders higher than boots+shoulders and i only have 890 boots to replace the legendary.

  11. #31
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Creativlol View Post
    Since boots only give 3 energy they are no must. With bracers and cof your shblades uptime should be really high resulting in 3 SS + 2 Finisher inside dance to avoid cp capping. With boots the amount of SS cast goes up but with bracers the amount of evicerates cast go up.
    Personally i think shoulders+bracers is bis because we can offset the "energy" loss of the boots with 10% haste and don'tr forget shtechnics give also energy.
    The boots are just a shadow of what they once were. My char sims with bracers + shoulders higher than boots+shoulders and i only have 890 boots to replace the legendary.
    This information is insightful thank you! I was worried i wouldn't able to perform without the boots. Time to switch and test further. Do the shoulders lose importance in the next patch with the sprint vanish change? I am new to sub but any more information is much appreciated! Thanks

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by manboiler View Post

    - - - Updated - - -



    Regarding legis for outlaw this isn't true. You don't really rely on any legendary for excellent dps. The only thing you really need as outlaw are all the atrifact traits, especially Loaded Dice.
    That's not true at all.
    There are only 4 Outlaw rogue that dosn't have neither wrist or Shoulders in Top 200 (and there are only 332 outlaw parses for Augur M, so, top 200 dosn't mean anything great anyway) from M Augur. And they are here just becouse they had good rolls and at last a 6 buff roll.
    So, again, u need shoulder OR wrist to do any kind of decent damage with outlaw.

  13. #33
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by manboiler View Post
    Since when?
    Versatility has always been the strongest for outlaw and then it's either crit/mastery.

    I've even checked now a couple of websites and it's still the same (haste being the worst). It wouldn't make sense anyways actually as outlaw does rely purely on pure dmg output.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Regarding legis for outlaw this isn't true. You don't really rely on any legendary for excellent dps. The only thing you really need as outlaw are all the atrifact traits, especially Loaded Dice.
    You have to check your "sense", because haste is bis. There was a bug in simcraft that made it look much worse than it was, it was recently fixed, all you have to do is check. Up to like 20% its the best stat.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Halobob87 View Post
    That's not true at all.
    There are only 4 Outlaw rogue that dosn't have neither wrist or Shoulders in Top 200 (and there are only 332 outlaw parses for Augur M, so, top 200 dosn't mean anything great anyway) from M Augur. And they are here just becouse they had good rolls and at last a 6 buff roll.
    So, again, u need shoulder OR wrist to do any kind of decent damage with outlaw.
    If you look at the top logs only, of course they all will have meaningful legendaries. That doesn't necessarily mean that the spec needs specific legendaries to perform well in comparison to people without those legendaries.

    If Outlaw performs well enough in comparison to other specs or classes is a completely different can of worms.
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    winning
    plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose

  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    If you look at the top logs only, of course they all will have meaningful legendaries. That doesn't necessarily mean that the spec needs specific legendaries to perform well in comparison to people without those legendaries.

    If Outlaw performs well enough in comparison to other specs or classes is a completely different can of worms.
    Rank 90 out of 330 is not a "top log" , is 72%.

    There are more then 300k difference between the first log without wrist or shoulder and rank 1 out. 450k between rank 1 and "no bis" number 5.

    So, again, for the third time. No. U Need Wrist or shouldes to do any kind of decent damage (at last on ST).

    For comparision, the difference on the same boss for assa between rank 1 and me (rank one of the category "i don't have neither boots or shoulders couse fuck blizzard) is ~100k.
    Last edited by Halobob87; 2017-05-13 at 08:20 PM.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Varkas88 View Post
    I have the mantle, bracers and CoF but haven't tried sub thinking i need the boots to excel. How would i fair with those? Are the boots a must have? Looking to switch from Sin to Sub in ToS to try something different
    You'll do great with that setup.

    Without the boots, you'll need to keep close track of your energy to ensure that you can fit 4x Shadowstrike into each dance. It takes a fair amount of skill to ensure this always works properly. The rotation feels a lot smoother when using the boots and I found it hard to go back after using them for a bit.

    I am anticipating the value of the boots to drop off severely in ToS, since our dance uptime will go down dramatically. On the other hand, I think the mantle will become better because we can line it up with burst windows and the bracers to become better since it will improve out-of-dance recovery.

  17. #37
    Deleted
    Been playing a lot of sub lately, the sustain EDIT: Soothing Darkness offers with 3% heal per s in steath and during shadowdance, coupled with 30% dodge from traits atm is very nice doing world stuff.
    Got the dreadlords cloak and fully stacked thats a juicy burst on a large pack.
    Feels like a decent m+ spec with reliable aoe and st.
    I just got sick of poison bomb procing on the last mob in the pack, or re-rolling RtB.
    Last edited by mmoc3458fbd8f2; 2017-05-14 at 09:43 AM. Reason: fixed a thing

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by ymirsson View Post
    if you look at the top logs only, of course they all will have meaningful legendaries. That doesn't necessarily mean that the spec needs specific legendaries to perform well in comparison to people without those legendaries.

    If outlaw performs well enough in comparison to other specs or classes is a completely different can of worms.
    this ^^^^^^^

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Wunju View Post
    You have to check your "sense", because haste is bis. There was a bug in simcraft that made it look much worse than it was, it was recently fixed, all you have to do is check. Up to like 20% its the best stat.
    That's all you can say? That I have to check my "sense"? lol

    I don't need sims (where vers is still by far the best) to know that haste is the worst stat. We don't have any dots, nor do we rely strongly on energy regeneration. Outlaw rogues rely mostly on putting out strong RT's as we're a fast spec anyways.

  19. #39
    Deleted
    Can anyone give me outlaw statweights with mantle for m+?
    How do you even calculate it?

  20. #40
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by manboiler View Post
    this ^^^^^^^

    - - - Updated - - -



    That's all you can say? That I have to check my "sense"? lol

    I don't need sims (where vers is still by far the best) to know that haste is the worst stat. We don't have any dots, nor do we rely strongly on energy regeneration. Outlaw rogues rely mostly on putting out strong RT's as we're a fast spec anyways.
    Aaaand I´m out...

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •