Is 905 ilvl really that high? o.O

[Marrilaife]

just stop dreaming how "easy " stuff is - for you and many others like this it is because you have guildies ready to boost you - 90 % dont have it and are stuck around 870 tops.

My alts that never stepped into m+ or raiding except very sporadic lfr are 880+. Nethershards, broken shore world bosses, WQ "titanforges" + 2 legendaries get you there fairly fast. The climb starts after.

[Shakou]

My alts that never stepped into m+ or raiding except very sporadic lfr are 880+. Nethershards, broken shore world bosses, WQ "titanforges" + 2 legendaries get you there fairly fast. The climb starts after.

CSB. My alts were all leveled before 7.2 and even my last one I leveled just a couple weeks before 7.2 had 880+ in a matter of no time at all because I did do mythic+, now they're all in the 900-over 905 range.

Nethershards was a viable way to do it before they nerfed the drop rates, now? Eh maybe if you can find a group that's going to carry you through a lot of shard farming.

[Dastreus]

I don't know how people have 900 ilvl. I just hit 888 today. Struggling to find a good trinket to replace my 855, finally replaced my 850. My character has been 110 for months.

[Marrilaife]

My alts were all leveled before 7.2 and had 880+ in a matter of no time at all because I did do mythic+.

Completely irrelevant to the point I was answering to. I thought we were talking about casuals who don't raid / don't do m+, apparently they "are stuck around 870 tops" which is not true. And I'm pretty sure some casuals spend more time on their main than I spend on my non-raiding alts, so they have more time to get more gear on them, just through casual content.

Nethershard / world bosses / lfr are open to all casuals, and after 880 casuals can start pugging normal NH if they wish so, there are many groups in the finder for 880+, while most m+ pugs ask for at least 900+ and keystone achievements / wowprogress score. Ofc we're talking about perspective of solo casual player who only pugs. A casual player who is in a casual guild that raids normal / hc or does m+ is in a different situation and can easily get to 900+ within a casual schedule, without having to deal with pugs and their requirements.

[Shakou]

Completely irrelevant to the point I was answering to.

It's not irrelevant. You're trying to say that m+ isn't open to casuals. That's 100% totally not true.

You're just trying to say that you've found some better way to gear alts and I'm telling you that you haven't.

Casual is a matter of time spent, it is not faster to do the content you suggested than some mythic+.

[Marrilaife]

I don't know how people have 900 ilvl. I just hit 888 today. Struggling to find a good trinket to replace my 855, finally replaced my 850. My character has been 110 for months.

Did you try the 5k nethershard trinkets? Even if you roll a stat stick as long as it's not a horrible stat for your class, is often a good choice. Unless your current trinkets are just better than their ilvl indicates (which happens).

- - - Updated - - -

It's not irrelevant. You're trying to say that m+ isn't open to casuals. That's 100% totally not true.

It wasn't me who said it but the guy I quoted. Can post it here for relevance:

average plaeyers doesn WQ , hc dungeons , maybe mythic + 2-3 and then he is done because nobody will invite him anywhere with his itlv.

just stop dreaming how "easy " stuff is - for you and many others like this it is because you have guildies ready to boost you - 90 % dont have it and are stuck around 870 tops.

My personal opinion is m+ is good for casuals who have a group of friends to run together, or they're in a casual guild that runs m+. If they're trying to solo queue into pugs, that's another story.

Point was if someone is a casual AND decided to take the solo / pug only avenue, there are still ways to get above 870.

[iNUKE]

The best way to gear up is to spam m+ dungeons I don't know how people don't know this yet, that how I get past 900 in just a few days or couple weeks depends if I wanna do it non stop or casually, all day long spamming mythics.

And if you wanna do it casually just do at least one M10 a week so you get a 905 piece from chest a week.

And if you have a few friends to run together once you learn the tactics from the level you are running then it becomes automatic and piece of cake, it's like Baal runs on D2

[Kelathos]

The best way to gear up is to spam m+ dungeons I don't know how people don't know this yet...

It is not easily accessible content and in the struggle to get a group it's far easier to just give up on people and wait for the guild to putz around in Heroic Nighthold.

[Deleted]

Depends.. Some people do require all their gear from m+

[Shakou]

It is not easily accessible content

Yes it is. Stop it.

[Alydael]

I've been playing legion hardcore mode for a couple months now and to me 900 ilvl is bare minimum.

Now I see lots of people with much higher ilvls so I know that 900 can't be that high at this time of expansion anymore.

Now my question is I've been playing some casual rbgs and I barely ever die, go 1vs6 in their base and my damage is like 100mil + every single rbg if I play my Ret pally whereas the second place is about half my damage most times.

If I play my blood DK is literally hit my forehead on the keyboard to win.. I'm literally unkillable.

Now my question is obviously people is lower ilvl than me (that's the only explanation I can think of).. so I'm asking you guys what is the average ilvl for an average player??

905 is enough to down H Guldan and get AOTC.

I would say that most people that have been playing steadily are probably around that ilevel. I don't think that is "most" players though. Maybe 20% of the base.

[Deleted]

Not really. When you get inside naked game applies a template of stats for your class and spec. So getting in naked or at ilvl 860 or 820 doesn't matter since you'll get the same template every time. Only thing that scales is that for every 10 ilvls over 900 you get 1% more stats from your stat template.

For example if you have ilvl 910 you would have 1% more stats than the guy sub 910 ilvl.

It's 1% per 10 ilevels over 800, but otherwise you are correct. I'm 914 on my druid and I get 11% bonus stats when I enter a BG.

[Socialhealer]

then why its done by only 15 % of playerbase if its that "casual" and "easy "

statments liek this are proving how delusional and deatached from reality mythic players are .

average plaeyers doesn WQ , hc dungeons , maybe mythic + 2-3 and then he is done because nobody will invite him anywhere with his itlv.

just stop dreaming how "easy " stuff is - for you and many others like this it is because you have guildies ready to boost you - 90 % dont have it and are stuck around 870 tops.

you lost all credibility with that 870 bullshit, how hard are some nethershards to get, some legendaries some 870 pvp gear, then if anything WF/TF bam you're over 870.

i have an 882 prot warrior, 0 raids 0 mythic+ still using 855 rings and neck.

[Deleted]

Unless your Mythic Raiding then there's little reason to be 900

Average is 850-875 which is more than enough for the majority of people

[kramjam]

I starting playing again first time since November and hit 904. What do I do to gear up now? Mythic plus or night hold? And what mythic plus should I be doing low level ones for 3 chest or higher one?

[Teri]

Unless your Mythic Raiding then there's little reason to be 900

Average is 850-875 which is more than enough for the majority of people

I don't agree with both statements.

My 5 chars are 880-897 without raids/M+, and recently discovered the Brawlers guild, and have yet to do the Mage Tower challenges.

Anyway, Timewalking Black Temple will drop 900, LFR will drop 885-895, ppl will get 900+ in no time.

850 is really really low unless you don't have 2 legendaries yet, dauntless gear is super easy to get, drops from chests/rares as well, I never farmed Nethershards and got like 90000 on 2 chars, 70000 on 2 others and 150k on another cause I got lucky on a 50k chest. Without sentinax content. Mostly been doing invasions/WQ, but now those 5 chars are exalted legionfall and I start working on transmog/pet collecting and such.

Now I have yet to spend nethershards on 2 of my lowest chars so I can focus on specific slots, right before the 7.2.5 hits.

850-875 is fine for WQ/solo content if you don't do Brawlers guild/mage tower stuff, no doubt, most WQ can even be done at like 800, more definately helps to solo the broken shore depending on class.

Even "shitty" legendaries like the mail healing legs become very useful vs those rares or in brawler guild etc...

If there wasn't any sense of progression I wouldn't be playing. Other expansions were basicly dead ends if you didn't raid it was stuck in dungeon blues or later epics...

I'm sure if I only focused on 1 char, it'd be over 900 with much higher AP but there's no rush, working on 8 weapons right now, 44-48 traits. Still ahead of the intended AP curve.

Still, I Won't be surprised if the expansion ends on something like Mythic Argus at 985 TF, while casual argus content goes to like 930 base, seeing how it's a new zone, I hope the gap between raids is +30 , just like the Nighthold to ToS.

[TheWindWalker]

My highest level toon is 888 equipped. My guild stopped running Nighthold and effectively went on hiatus. What's frustrating is I went from ~1/2-10/11pm shifts to 9-6pm shifts and... now there's no one familiar to raid with even though I'm home.

[Thetruth1400]

900 is literally MILES behind 925.

Then by your logic 850 is literally 2 times the MILES behind 900.

[masterhorus8]

Then by your logic 850 is literally 2 times the MILES behind 900.

Curves, how do they work?

[Kagthul]

Okay, im going to jump in for the PvP community and correct some misinformation floating around in this thread. I tried to collate as many of the incorrect posts as i could, so i can just reply to them all at once.

Gear doesn't matter in pvp. You could be naked with just your weapon and still do that. Some classes are just op in BGs and blizzard has no care to fix it.

Gear matters exactly as much as it did before (actually, it CAN matter a little more than in the past. Honor gear was 9.5% behind CQ gear previously, and the new iLevel scaling can put people up to 13% behind at current gear levels - and that's JUST from the iLevel scaling!). On average, though, its about exactly the same as it used to be.

Doesn't pvp template these days treat everyone as at least 900 ilvl and 36 traits anyway?

No, well get to that in a bit.

I'm not sure if you could be naked because "gear doesn't matter" since all your pieces scale up to 900ilvl in PvP if you were naked you'd have nothing to scale up!

No, not how that works. read the tutorial below.

Not really. When you get inside naked game applies a template of stats for your class and spec. So getting in naked or at ilvl 860 or 820 doesn't matter since you'll get the same template every time. Only thing that scales is that for every 10 ilvls over 900 you get 1% more stats from your stat template.

For example if you have ilvl 910 you would have 1% more stats than the guy sub 910 ilvl.

yeah....I'm doing a lot more than 1% damage at 910 then I was at 900 or sub-900

Yeah, because you're scaling from iLevel 800. (See below).

Of course you do, but in instanced PVP things are exactly as I've wrote.

Actually, you're completely wrong.

The base iLevel for the .1% scaling/iLevel is 800. Ill try to include a link to Holinka's most recent post about it.

I'm not quite sure, was under the impression you needed 800+ilvl in order for your gear to even scale up

You get a template. Your gear is treated as if it's 900ilvl for the .1% stat increase. I have pvped in bgs naked.

No, the stat increase starts at iLevel 800. Confirmed (again, for about the tenth time) by Holinka just last week. It was even on the front page here.

Here's a brief tutorial, taken from a post of mine in the PvP forums:

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ITT: People who have absolutely no clue how gear in PvP actually works.

If i could make Picard up there 20x bigger, i would.

Now.. templates. Dear god, the misinformation. This one isn't directly solely at any one of you, because Blizzard makes the process completely opaque and doesn't document shit... but you're completely wrong in how it works.

Brief tutorial:

When you enter instanced PvP, your base statistics are raised to a certain iLevel floor. This is BEFORE your template is applied. It was 800 at launch, then raised to 850 in 7.1.5, and 900 in 7.2. What this means is that your base stats (Int, Stam, et al) are factored as if every item in your slots is an iLevel 900 stat-stick.

THEN your Template is applied. This is why, when you see Blizzard's tuning numbers, Templates are expressed in percentages. (ex - "Intellect reduced to 73%") It is setting your base stats, determined when you zoned in at iLevel 900, to that percentage of the base. Stam tends to be over 100%, primary stats are usually severely cut (which in turn reduces AP/SP). The Template also applies a bunch of invisible auras that affect your spells and abilities (self-healing on a lot of abilities is cut by a blanket percentage, tanks take 25% more damage, period, etc)

AFTER your Template is applied, bonus stats from your Artifact Traits (the traits themselves, not merely having them - so a Trait that adds 3% stam, like a Blood Death Knight's "Meat Shield", for instance, applies now, as well as any bonus stats from your Honor Talents.

THEN your bonus stam for traits is applied. The first 34 traits worth of bonus stam and the bonus Stamina (only) from the first skill on your new medallion are now granted gratis - but any traits anyone has above 34 still grant an additional .75% stam that a fresh 110 wont have. (At least up until the first point in Concordance of the Legionfall - Blizzard said there is now a "diminishing return" on stam gains from traits, but it is a solid .75% all the way up to the first point in Concordance, at the very least).

After all this, the bonus % gain from additional iLevels is added. This percentage bonus is calculated from iLevel 800. So, if you have iLevel 890, you have 9% bonus stats. And this is a blanket multiplier to all stats, including Stam.

And this isn't even factoring in the power differential granted by Artifact Traits themselves. A Blood DK, for instance, that has unlocked the new Medallion (Carrion Feast, Vampiric Aura, and Souldrinker) is heads and shoulders more powerful than one who hasn't. You cant even factor this in to some percentage-based evaluation - not that you need to, the raw mix is hard enough.

TLDR: Your template starts as if all your gear is iLevel 900, and then applies the template modifications by percentage. THEN your Honor Talents factor in, THEN your Traits (the traits themselves), THEN the bonus stam for 34 traits + the 10% bonus stam from the first Medallion trait apply, THEN the additional bonus stam/trait over 34 is applied (still .75% per trait at least until Legionfall level 1), THEN the flat scaling iLevel bonus applies - .1% to ALL stats per iLevel above 800.

Holinka's most recent tweet on the subject can be found in this post:

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...D-Va-Spotlight

Still, I Won't be surprised if the expansion ends on something like Mythic Argus at 985 TF, while casual argus content goes to like 930 base, seeing how it's a new zone, I hope the gap between raids is +30 , just like the Nighthold to ToS.

Actually, the rampant iLevel inflation (look up "mudflation") is just bad game design. It's harmful to the health of the game in every possible term (short, med and long). It needs to stop, and we need to go back to less difficulties and overlap between tiers.

If people cant be satisifed with a 10-15% power boost from one tier to another, then they can fuck right off.

Ramptant stat scaling is like a game design 101 no-no. Blizzard needs to get their shit under control.