Would players support an expansion where we were really in danger?

[Eon Drache]

Fel Reaver!!!

Anyone the fel reaver was able to sneak up on was a total dumbass. Not only did it make a very loud sound that you couldnt miss but it shook your screen before it got in range to attack you. That assumes you actually didn't see it taking up all your screen too.

[Sigxy]

Anyone the fel reaver was able to sneak up on was a total dumbass. Not only did it make a very loud sound that you couldnt miss but it shook your screen before it got in range to attack you. That assumes you actually didn't see it taking up all your screen too.

Look, I was JUST a little bit busy killing a few orcs and I had the screen NOT facing him at low level - I can't help that when I did see him I already was in his aggro range! ;_:

But yeah in all seriousness, I really liked the Fel Reavers. THAT gave a sense of danger. Until you realized that, when you had a quest to kill one, you could trick them over to the blood elf mage NPCs...

[cfStatic]

On a personal level: I think it could be fun if mobs weren't just loot pinatas. I have very fond memories of back in TBC leveling in STV on a PVP server. Never knowing if a higher level enemy was going to pass by, or trying to figure out a way to get away from them if they rolled up. That sort of "danger" was very engaging.

Realistically however, I don't think WoW has the systems in place(or if it would be possible to incorporate them). And even if they could somehow make mobs dangerous for tank specs but not absolutely truck the less durable specs, how that is perceived by the player base -rightly or wrongly- would have an effect on how those systems evolve(read: nerfed). I don't think Blizzard has enough of a backbone to implement something like that and stick to it for long enough for it to normalize and for players to finally adjust. You just have to go back a couple weeks to see the cry about scaling mobs.

[Deleted]

Well, while I like the idea of a harder WoW (I'm no Dark Souls master but I usually play everything on hard, or hardest difficulty, and even tho Legion is the best expansion so far in my opinion, I find myself only logging in to raid, as world content bores the shit out of me. With some RNG luck I kill world mobs with 2 hits, and my gear isn't topped out, nor am I playing with the strongest spec in the game), the real reason why this would be impossible is...


WHINY ENTITLED CASUALS


WoW is is now actually WoC (World of Casualcraft), it's getting more and more casual friendly since early TBC, as Blizzard is giving in to the casual tears because money.

Remember that casuals came up with the argument "I pay the same mount of money than a hardcore guy who plays 12+ hours a day, so I deserve the same shit", and then Blizzard introduced the Heroic dungeon badge system, where you could get Tier 5 equivalent gear?
Remember that people whined so hard about not being able to step into Vanilla Naxxramas that it got remade as the entry level raid in WotLK, essentially raping the memory of that place?
Remember that casuals kept whining about having to actually fucking gather different gear to different specs, so now gear going into "nonjewelry slots" switch the main stat around, depending on what spec you are in?
Also, should I remind you that Blizzard had to give up the "raiding difficulty increases by instance" scale, which worked quite flawlessly in Vanilla? (Vanilla lasted longer than any expansion, yet only a small fragment - like 2%, hence the "raping of Naxxramas" - was able to kill everything raid related, yet nowadays you see poeple roflstomp farming the Mythic verson of the last raid by the end of the expansion) Back then if you started raiding fresh off, you had to start at ZG / MC depending on the size and dedication of the guild. Now? You just hop into LFR, do world stuff, and that's it, you'll be able to jump into the "real" <insert currently relevant raid instance's name>, and that's why you see a crapton of noskill players applying to your raiding guild. They have no idea how to play their class, they have no raid experience, but due to the casualfriendly "catchup mechanics", "on paper" you're able to start raiding 2-3 weeks after your character hit 110.
(The list goes on, but I think I made my point).

Now, in the current Casualcraft world imagine the effect of the world content suddenly becoming remotely challenging. Casual tears would fill the Internet to a degree that water would our out of your Ethernet port when you turn your computer on.

PS.: I'm talking about casual players (who "can afford" to play like 3 hours a week in total), and not about casual raiders, as I'm one of the later group (my guild only raids 2x3 hours a week).

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

At the end of the day it can't matter too much. We're talking about a computer game, right? And the only purpose of any of it is entertainment. Personally, I think the game would be more entertaining if it was less predictable. Even if that meant getting ganked by the AI every now and then. I'd have a good laugh about it, maybe some curses, but I'd be smiling. Better than being bored.

[Sansnom]

I don't think leveling would take significantly longer. I do think d be significantly more fun. Don't you get bored doing faceroll content where every mob you meet is just a punching bag?

Making mobs hit harder does not really make it more interesting. The quest themselves can be an interesting chain. As much as I hate Suramar, the main quest was entertaining and interesting in learning more about the event that is happening.

Blizzard should try to make questing more entertaining. Making the mob hit harder is not the solution.

[Kokolums]

its just not an engaging story. At all. And there's no excuse. You can write excellent stories and make the Legion a REAL threat while having us win at the end of the xpac. Its just very very bad writing. No sugarcoating it. They need to fire the writers they have now and bring in new people.

[Uselessrouge]

no poeple will cry if they cant hide in a safe zone... remember the BC /wotlk event? that was a real invasion with poepel spreading the debuff evrywhere.. evrythign dying.. poeple where crying all the time.. so no we cant do anything where anything is in danger..

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Making mobs hit harder does not really make it more interesting. The quest themselves can be an interesting chain. As much as I hate Suramar, the main quest was entertaining and interesting in learning more about the event that is happening.

Blizzard should try to make questing more entertaining. Making the mob hit harder is not the solution.

Sansnom I agree that it's not about just scaling up the mobs. I think a lot of the players raising objections are imagining a game where everything just hits harder and/or has more health, making it more of a chore to kill. To me, the biggest problem with our current game is predictability, which is first cousin to boredom. I do think the rare dangerous mobs should move around more. Maybe more of those rares could be given at least one mechanic or special attack which needed to be avoided rather than ignored. Basically, I just think there should be some reason to pay attention when doing world content. At least some of the mobs should be capable of defending themselves, and more zones should have at least one encounter or event which even well-geared adventurers must be wary of.

Btw, I also enjoy Suramar. Playing through it on my 3rd alt now, and still noticing details I missed the first time, details that do show some craftsmanship and attention to detail from the creative team at Blizz. Suramar is absolutely the most interesting zone and best/most ambitious story arc Blizz has ever attempted. Kudos to them and I hope they do more in this vein.

- - - Updated - - -

Remember Toruk in Avatar? An encounter like that would be cool, using some appropriate WoW threat. Yah you can fly, but don't think like you're the only thing up there. And maybe flying makes you more noticeable. Even when you're flying, you gotta look up!

[Deleted]

Well, while I like the idea of a harder WoW (I'm no Dark Souls master but I usually play everything on hard, or hardest difficulty, and even tho Legion is the best expansion so far in my opinion, I find myself only logging in to raid, as world content bores the shit out of me. With some RNG luck I kill world mobs with 2 hits, and my gear isn't topped out, nor am I playing with the strongest spec in the game), the real reason why this would be impossible is...


WHINY ENTITLED CASUALS


WoW is is now actually WoC (World of Casualcraft), it's getting more and more casual friendly since early TBC, as Blizzard is giving in to the casual tears because money.

Remember that casuals came up with the argument "I pay the same mount of money than a hardcore guy who plays 12+ hours a day, so I deserve the same shit", and then Blizzard introduced the Heroic dungeon badge system, where you could get Tier 5 equivalent gear?
Remember that people whined so hard about not being able to step into Vanilla Naxxramas that it got remade as the entry level raid in WotLK, essentially raping the memory of that place?
Remember that casuals kept whining about having to actually fucking gather different gear to different specs, so now gear going into "nonjewelry slots" switch the main stat around, depending on what spec you are in?
Also, should I remind you that Blizzard had to give up the "raiding difficulty increases by instance" scale, which worked quite flawlessly in Vanilla? (Vanilla lasted longer than any expansion, yet only a small fragment - like 2%, hence the "raping of Naxxramas" - was able to kill everything raid related, yet nowadays you see poeple roflstomp farming the Mythic verson of the last raid by the end of the expansion) Back then if you started raiding fresh off, you had to start at ZG / MC depending on the size and dedication of the guild. Now? You just hop into LFR, do world stuff, and that's it, you'll be able to jump into the "real" <insert currently relevant raid instance's name>, and that's why you see a crapton of noskill players applying to your raiding guild. They have no idea how to play their class, they have no raid experience, but due to the casualfriendly "catchup mechanics", "on paper" you're able to start raiding 2-3 weeks after your character hit 110.
(The list goes on, but I think I made my point).

Now, in the current Casualcraft world imagine the effect of the world content suddenly becoming remotely challenging. Casual tears would fill the Internet to a degree that water would our out of your Ethernet port when you turn your computer on.

PS.: I'm talking about casual players (who "can afford" to play like 3 hours a week in total), and not about casual raiders, as I'm one of the later group (my guild only raids 2x3 hours a week).

So you want the game to crash and burn? Open world never meant to be a challenge except some selected zones with elite mobs. It't there for leveling and farming materials, not for your epeen. Go get mythic achievements and gladiator titles, if you want challenge.

[Gimlix]

I would agree with this, if only if your character dies, your character gets deleted and have to start over.
That makes raiding real intense and immersion. That will make raiding better then ever and make WoW feel better then ever!

[-Joker-]

In TBC prior to Heirlooms and stat squished world mobs, your average lvl 7 hero could die by the lake at the hands of two Murlocs. The ONLY way the world becomes dangerous is to lose the ability for the gear to exceed the capability of the mob. In other words, 1:1 your hero is likely going to survive. 2 on 1 you are going to have to be GOOD at your class. 3 or more, you are fucked and should start running.

[Leyre]

Cataclysm was dangerous for lowbies who didnt had flying, DW appearing randomly and killing everyone was fun

[dextersmith]

In danger like felreaver or when that dragon randomly torched places and gave you the standing in fire achievement? Or every xp's threat to the world?

- - - Updated - - -

I think players will support any xp because it's an xp, unless it's as bad as wod.

[Shakou]

If you're looking for a really difficult game this is not even the genre for you.

[Stormspellz]

to create real danger you would need real consequences, losing access to a city, losing xp, gear, hefty gold loss for dying ect. Wow is to far into the pandora's box of being coddled to ever do it.

[Deleted]

theres no point playing a game where all the heroes die. what happens at the end of the expansion?

blizzard close all servers because azeroth was destroyed? get real.

[Kynario]

Good questions. They could start by having mobs that weren't easy to solo show up in unexpected places, without being marked on the map. Not like they need to materialize on top of you, but they could be wandering through and you'd need to watch for them. Like the Fel Reavers in Hellfire Peninsula, or wandering monsters in D&D.

I agree... This'd be so awesome. Getting owned by something like a Fel Reaver needs to come back. It makes the zone feel more alive, and gives the world a sense of danger. The world bosses we have nowadays are just loot pinatas... Pathetic.

[micwini]

I would like that. They indeed failed at that with legion.

I still haven't been ganked by a fel reaver.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Open world never meant to be a challenge except some selected zones with elite mobs. It't there for leveling and farming materials, not for your epeen.

Does leveling and farming have to be predictable and boring?