Question: is wow population really low?

[Niwes]

Yes and difference from previsou expansions like TBC and Vannila is. It was far more rewarding do this kind of stuff. Back in glory days content was challeging not grindy. Game didnt showered you with epics for doing medicore world Q. I barely have any satisfaction being rewarded by gear in Legion becouse it is so easy. No community. All that LFR, LFG and crossrealm garbage completly destroyed community. Instead giving us better tool to find players they just dinf them for us.

For me personaly game become complelty non challenging outside of mythic raids. I love that prestique being withing small % players what killed Illidan. It felt rewarding and gived me reason to raid. I wanted to raid becouse i wanted to see content. This is biggest drive what you can give to players. But they will rahter put LFR in and remove this drive from playerbase.

exactly this.

ppl always mention: but nowadays players are that "30min in/out hopping type of player that dont wanna talk and want everything rewarded fast" blah bla.

first thing: not all players are born of this type. there are still 16 years old out there that want a true time comitted deep high quality mmorpg. yes, that ppl exists. not manyof them, but they exists.

second: that 30min players wasnt born as this. game industry and blizzard helped A LOT to create that player type, by giving them stuff after stuff to offer the "easy way". ofc i create a game thats more like a job (grinding/lfr/epic shower) than a game (challenge/success/fun) when i breed that player base with tools like lfr and piss easy outdoor content with mobs a braindead ape could aoe grind down.

all that shit you have today, and the player types you have today, is also (besides how society evolved) a lot made by the game industry itself. when you breed players that leave your game after 2-3 months, you get players that leave your game after 2-3 months.

[SeyserKoze]

US-Sargeras is always red text "High" populated when I normally get on. Maybe you're logging in at an obscure time when most people are asleep.

[Darsithis]

So you're denying that wow has a low population now in comparison to previous expansions? There's around 10 servers in the US, maybe less, with a med or higher pop. The rest are pretty much dead.

I'm not denying anything. We don't know what the number is, nor does it really matter. Engagement matters. You could have 20 million subscribers but if they not logging in and playing, there is a problem.

[HordeFanboy]

I'm not denying anything. We don't know what the number is, nor does it really matter. Engagement matters. You could have 20 million subscribers but if they not logging in and playing, there is a problem.

So we had 10 mil on wod launch and then 5 mil after 8 months. Yes ,No problem, subs doesnt matter ,game is in the best state since Wotlk. Working as intended.

[Darsithis]

So we had 10 mil on wod launch and then 5 mil after 8 months. Yes ,No problem, subs doesnt matter ,game is in the best state since Wotlk. Working as intended.

Would you and the person I quoted stop reading into what I said? I've said nothing about the state of the game.

All I said was that the number of subscribers means little. What matters is what those subscribers are doing and how much revenue they're generating. The reality is that you probably interact with only a few thousand people in the game, ever.

[FelPlague]

Yes and difference from previsou expansions like TBC and Vannila is. It was far more rewarding do this kind of stuff. Back in glory days content was challeging not grindy. Game didnt showered you with epics for doing medicore world Q. I barely have any satisfaction being rewarded by gear in Legion becouse it is so easy. No community. All that LFR, LFG and crossrealm garbage completly destroyed community. Instead giving us better tool to find players they just dinf them for us.

For me personaly game become complelty non challenging outside of mythic raids. I love that prestique being withing small % players what killed Illidan. It felt rewarding and gived me reason to raid. I wanted to raid becouse i wanted to see content. This is biggest drive what you can give to players. But they will rahter put LFR in and remove this drive from playerbase.

lol no it wasent
farming herbs and dailies for hours was not challengeing, it was grindy
leveling was not challenging it was grindy

throw out your goggles, they have become rose tinted and broken

[potis]

Lets do this one more time

1)Old game, people arent interested in WoW as much as before, mostly because kids dont like the graphics hence no new blood.

2)Blizzard was trying to keep the expansion hoppers subbed longer, they cant keep them forever, they know they wont stay forever.

3)They achieved that compared to WoD.

4)Means its a success.

[Pull My Finger]

Ive only seen a handful of people on the broken shore

Yeah right.

[Dystemper]

I have a feeling that right now, WOW subs are at about the lowest they have been since the start of the game. I have a feeling we are at a lower sub level then at the end of WOD.

- - - Updated - - -

Would you and the person I quoted stop reading into what I said? I've said nothing about the state of the game.

All I said was that the number of subscribers means little. What matters is what those subscribers are doing and how much revenue they're generating. The reality is that you probably interact with only a few thousand people in the game, ever.

LMFAo the number of subscribers means little to a game who's main source of revenue is subscriptions? Seriously?

[Relapses]

LMFAo the number of subscribers means little to a game who's main source of revenue is subscriptions? Seriously?

It doesn't matter to us, as players. The only thing anybody ever uses sub numbers to "prove" is whatever arbitrary random fucking reason that player is "sure" is "the reason the game is dying."

[Darsithis]

LMFAo the number of subscribers means little to a game who's main source of revenue is subscriptions? Seriously?

Is it? There are pets, mounts, boosts, tokens, and transfers & character services that likely compare closely with subscription revenue. Don't forget arena league franchising fees, too.

Anyway, the "state" of the game is not dependent on whether or not the game has 5 million or 4 million subscribers.

[George Costanza]

There is like 4-5 milion active subs most are going to play no matter what.

[Queen of Hamsters]

My servers had queues just the other night.

They increased the size of servers before Legion came out, which made servers show a step or so below their previous population tag. My servers have retaken said tag again and the world is more alive than ever.

If the overall population is low, it's not showing where I play.

- - - Updated - - -

LMFAo the number of subscribers means little to a game who's main source of revenue is subscriptions? Seriously?

You clearly don't understand where their revenues come from.

On a very bad year with subs hitting an all-time low since Classic, they still made 800 million USD.

- - - Updated - - -

It doesn't matter to us, as players. The only thing anybody ever uses sub numbers to "prove" is whatever arbitrary random fucking reason that player is "sure" is "the reason the game is dying."

A-fucking-men to this. Sad that it never changes, this has been the case since I started playing.

[Dystemper]

Is it? There are pets, mounts, boosts, tokens, and transfers & character services that likely compare closely with subscription revenue. Don't forget arena league franchising fees, too.

Anyway, the "state" of the game is not dependent on whether or not the game has 5 million or 4 million subscribers.

It is a subscription based game of course it depends on that. The cash shop items will not make up for a massive loss in subs. There has been no new cash shop mounts. The cost for a transfer is ridiculous as are the costs associated with other services. Trying to say the number of paying subscribers does not dictate how well the game is doing is daft. The share holder most certainly care.

[zezel81]

And ripping out such things like LFR and LFD won't do anything either. LFR raiders are not the type that do normal anyway, they're the ones who never raided in the first place. Also the queing mechanics were what allowed those with lives in the real world that meant they couldn't have a set schedule (shift workers and others like that) could essentially see the meat of the game. By ripping such things from the game you'll alienate a decent number of the community.

No one really these days wants to spend weeks to months leveling and WoW isn't going to pull in new members to replace those that leave like it did when it came off the back of WC3. Plus MMOs are not really in a good place anyway right now and have been replaced by the MOBA and shooters with their quick in, and out. No commitment for long gaming slogs in which you won't full behind if you take a month out style of gaming the two genres give.

The reason MMO fell behind is this.
MMO now days you don't have try as hard. As in casual or dumb person could end up with same as a hardcore gamer. Then the hardcore gamer wtf why even play a MMO if everyone is equal and then casual run around for a bit feel like they have things missing from the game(what is missing is the challenge and excitement that they wanted gone). So, then ppl just move to fast and done games due to it truly doesn't matter.

MMO could come back. If you make a game that revolves around the story and RP/hardcore fan base the casual ppl will come. It has been proven in WoW vanilla and video games. Nerds(RP/hardcore ppl attract players because it feels real and dangerous and mysterious). Think of vanilla WoW not many subs and bc millions. Then it got more casual in WoTLK numbers went higher. So, developers thought hmmm make it more casual then numbers started to sink. When video games first came out ppl was called nerds and made fun of. Now everyone plays them. It is starting to drop... why? No true challenge or story on some games start lacking.

[Darsithis]

It is a subscription based game of course it depends on that. The cash shop items will not make up for a massive loss in subs. There has been no new cash shop mounts. The cost for a transfer is ridiculous as are the costs associated with other services. Trying to say the number of paying subscribers does not dictate how well the game is doing is daft. The share holder most certainly care.

The number of subscribers isn't as important as engagement with the subscribers they have and revenue from other sources. So far, it seems to be doing great despite all of the armchair analysts that are confident the game is "under 1m subs" and "is dying".

At any rate, again, all I was saying was that to players knowing if WoW has xxx number of subscribers isn't important. You can't interact with more than a few thousand, at best, over the lifetime of your subscription. To Blizzard, what matters more is overall revenue from all sources (franchising, services, cash shop, and subs) and, again, engagement, which prioritizes what they will pay to develop.

The reason MMO fell behind is this.
MMO now days you don't have try as hard. As in casual or dumb person could end up with same as a hardcore gamer. Then the hardcore gamer wtf why even play a MMO if everyone is equal and then casual run around for a bit feel like they have things missing from the game(what is missing is the challenge and excitement that they wanted gone). So, then ppl just move to fast and done games due to it truly doesn't matter.

Where can I get decked out in mythic gear without running mythic? Anyway, if you really base your enjoyment of the game on whether or not someone you don't even know and probably will never talk to has similar gear to yours, that's your problem.

[Kallisto]

The reason MMO fell behind is this.
MMO now days you don't have try as hard. As in casual or dumb person could end up with same as a hardcore gamer. Then the hardcore gamer wtf why even play a MMO if everyone is equal and then casual run around for a bit feel like they have things missing from the game(what is missing is the challenge and excitement that they wanted gone). So, then ppl just move to fast and done games due to it truly doesn't matter.

MMO could come back. If you make a game that revolves around the story and RP/hardcore fan base the casual ppl will come. It has been proven in WoW vanilla and video games. Nerds(RP/hardcore ppl attract players because it feels real and dangerous and mysterious). Think of vanilla WoW not many subs and bc millions. Then it got more casual in WoTLK numbers went higher. So, developers thought hmmm make it more casual then numbers started to sink. When video games first came out ppl was called nerds and made fun of. Now everyone plays them. It is starting to drop... why? No true challenge or story on some games start lacking.

Would love to see your mythic kills?

If wow is easier right now then why do the top guilds always point to latest raid (except EN in recent years) as the hardest raid they've done. Don't give me crap about the world, that's always always always been designed as a means to get you to top level to get into the raids, even back in vanilla.

Take normal Helya (yes normal) and put her anywhere in Vanilla and it would be a bigger road block then buggy impossible C'thun because no one would know what to do.

WoW went down for many reasons. End of an era with Arthas being killed (aka the WC story is basically over. KJ was flushed, Illidan and his group dealt with. Scourge defeated and Arthas dead. Roll credits), the massive sub drop in Cata when "It's too hard." came out for raids and heroic dungeons excuse scared off the casuals. The sub drop only stopping when LFR was introduced.

The meat of WoW right now is harder than it has ever been. Until a few crybabies came here saying "Difficulty levels =/= content." the opposite was true in basically ever game imaginable. If you can't kill mythic don't call the game easy, you're just bullshitting yourself.

[Shaede]

The reason MMO fell behind is this.
MMO now days you don't have try as hard. As in casual or dumb person could end up with same as a hardcore gamer. Then the hardcore gamer wtf why even play a MMO if everyone is equal and then casual run around for a bit feel like they have things missing from the game(what is missing is the challenge and excitement that they wanted gone). So, then ppl just move to fast and done games due to it truly doesn't matter.

MMO could come back. If you make a game that revolves around the story and RP/hardcore fan base the casual ppl will come. It has been proven in WoW vanilla and video games. Nerds(RP/hardcore ppl attract players because it feels real and dangerous and mysterious). Think of vanilla WoW not many subs and bc millions. Then it got more casual in WoTLK numbers went higher. So, developers thought hmmm make it more casual then numbers started to sink. When video games first came out ppl was called nerds and made fun of. Now everyone plays them. It is starting to drop... why? No true challenge or story on some games start lacking.

Wildstar says hello

WoW has outlasted many games. MMOs may not be as popular as they once were but as far as the genre goes, WoW has everything you could possibly ask for. I don't know where this claim that hardcore players are leaving comes from really. There are still Arena tournaments, there are still Rated BGs, there are still Mythic raid races. I mean what kind of hardcore are we talking about? Wildstar is a prime example of making a grindy, hard mega raid game that fell flat on it's face. People might think that's what they want because vanilla was 40 man raids, but it clearly isn't reality.

Yea I remember having to spend day after day gathering mats to craft frost resistance gear just to fight a boss with three mechanics. That was fun as shit let me tell you.

At least in today's game I can log in, do what I want to do and log out. And as far as the pop is concerned I am still putting together raids and mythic+ runs relatively fast. Could use more incentives for people to be a tank or healer, but that's always been a problem and other than that groups come together very quickly. That might not be indicative of the pop but it does show that there is at least enough players online at any given time to quickly put together groups which is the only thing that really matters to me at least. Even BG ques are like 5 minutes which isn't bad at all.

[Dystemper]

The last earnings call they sad WOW is only doing slightly better then WOd was at the same period. At the same period Wod was estimated at about 3 million subs , this was after they had shed over 5 million subs the first couple months after WOD had been released. At the end of WOD there was a estimated 2.5-3 million subs but we wouldnt know because after the largest loss of players in the games history, Blizzard decided to no longer release the info.

The game is not in a good state and after the fiasco that is the 7.2 launch I would guess the game is now worse off then it was at the end of WOD.

[Kallisto]

exactly this.

ppl always mention: but nowadays players are that "30min in/out hopping type of player that dont wanna talk and want everything rewarded fast" blah bla.

first thing: not all players are born of this type. there are still 16 years old out there that want a true time comitted deep high quality mmorpg. yes, that ppl exists. not manyof them, but they exists.

second: that 30min players wasnt born as this. game industry and blizzard helped A LOT to create that player type, by giving them stuff after stuff to offer the "easy way". ofc i create a game thats more like a job (grinding/lfr/epic shower) than a game (challenge/success/fun) when i breed that player base with tools like lfr and piss easy outdoor content with mobs a braindead ape could aoe grind down.

all that shit you have today, and the player types you have today, is also (besides how society evolved) a lot made by the game industry itself. when you breed players that leave your game after 2-3 months, you get players that leave your game after 2-3 months.

Not really.

Businesses follow trends they don't set them. LoL was created, was free, simply to play, didn't need a commitment and people flooded to it. Some of which certainly came from WoW.

Younger generation don't want long term slogs, the elder generation don't have time for long term slogs. The old style MMOs will not work there isn't a market for them. If there was a market which would bring in a major profit the gaming companies would be all over it to get a piece of the pie.