New hunter legendary ring

[Deleted]

I was speaking from a MM point of view, but I believe this is true for every spec that has 2 strong ones.

[Kissthebaby]

One obvious reason why it's going to be good for survival is because all the legendaries already blow for that spec besides bracers so. Survival probably has the worst set of legendaries in the game.

[Emerald Archer]

I think you meant wrists instead of gloves?

wtf lol, no he meant gloves. Wrists are the bursting shot legendary.

[Deleted]

One obvious reason why it's going to be good for survival is because all the legendaries already blow for that spec besides bracers so. Survival probably has the worst set of legendaries in the game.

The butcher thingy blows?

I always thought it pretty much enables the spec to be useful.

[Khrux]

The butcher thingy blows?

I always thought it pretty much enables the spec to be useful.

The BiS leggos for Survival on live right now are;
1. Call of the Wild (Bracers)
2. Roots of Shaladrassil (Pants)
3. Shadow Hunter's Voodoo Mask (Helm)
4. Kil'jaedans Burning Wish (Trinket)
5. Sephuz's Secret (Ring)

Only 1 Survival specific legendary makes the top 5, the rest are either so niche they are just not viable for general use, they lack the stats from the shared spec legendarys or their effect is dps neutral against the stats on shared spec legendarys. Total shitshow!

[Deleted]

And how did you evaluate them?

Pretty sure Butchery-thing is up there too.

[Khrux]

And how did you evaluate them?

Pretty sure Butchery-thing is up there too.

Multiple sources, based on SimC, theorycraft, discord channels and so on. Its not my top 5 at all, its the community accepted BiS for ST(NOT AOE). However as I said, the other Survival specific ones are niche and can have uses especially the Butcher's Bone Apron which has value for Skorp, Tich, Spellblade and Gul'dan to boost Butchery damage on adds. Which is completely unnecessary if you have other AoE classes in your comp that don't need to wear a leggo to cheese meters.

[Gaaz]

I thought that Apex ring affected only your main pet, not Hati. If that is still true, the new ring definitely does not seem that bad in comparison. Apex should give around 2-2.5% damage boost for BM, while this ring would allow for a 20% increase in Cobra Shot damage (roughly 3% on single target), provided you go with Dire Frenzy, more with Stomp. It actually is not that bad. The choice would probably be dependant on a specific encounter.

[Deleted]

Multiple sources, based on SimC, theorycraft, discord channels and so on. Its not my top 5 at all, its the community accepted BiS for ST(NOT AOE). However as I said, the other Survival specific ones are niche and can have uses especially the Butcher's Bone Apron which has value for Skorp, Tich, Spellblade and Gul'dan to boost Butchery damage on adds. Which is completely unnecessary if you have other AoE classes in your comp that don't need to wear a leggo to cheese meters.

I don't see a reason to complain about the legendaries here.
Roots are pretty damn good for every hunter spec, even for MM it's decent and very good for BM. Seems like the spec is perfectly balanced in terms of legendaries when it's able to perform well no matter what.

I think it's the opposite from a shitshow. It's how it should've been from the start.

Anyway, as far as the ring is concerned, I guess this just means

I was speaking from a MM point of view, but I believe this is true for every spec that has 2 strong ones.

is true.

[Kissthebaby]

I don't see a reason to complain about the legendaries here.
Roots are pretty damn good for every hunter spec, even for MM it's decent and very good for BM. Seems like the spec is perfectly balanced in terms of legendaries when it's able to perform well no matter what.

What do you mean theres no reason to complain, theres tons of reasons. Bm has like 4 decent legendaries and survival literally has one good one a niche one and one that every other mail spec has with a wasted effect. How often to you stand still as melee? its purely for stats. I mean theres a legendary that spreads lacerate to just one other target for free when you aoe, yipee sick effect. Blizzard is beyond out of touch with survival. The legedaries blow and havent even been looked at. How about this cool legendary when you do 30% more damage for 10 seconds after you harpoon that you can use once a fight. Get a clue.

[Deleted]

As if Root's effect is any less good just because you are melee, the healing is pretty much instant, don't move if you don't have to.

I don't have the ring, but I'm pretty sure Carve will spread every Lacerate, not just one. Which means it's a pretty nice Legendary for sustained AoE.
Even if that isn't the case, the duration is refreshed at least. So some nice QoL there.

That's how legendaries should be. That's what I'm saying.
The new Talent-Ring is another good example of how Legendaries should be designed. Certainly not OP like MM-boots/Gloves/Belt.
I have absolutely no reason to even think about any other legendary if I have these... unless they release a new one that is even more OP.

[Turtel]

For MM the new ring is pretty good for single target but almost useless for AoE. MM only has one good single target legendary (the gloves). The boots only happen to be the second best legendary for single target because every other DPS legendary is useless in single target.

This is why I don't get why people are comparing the new ring to the gloves. If we had Gloves+Boots and we wanted to equip the new ring, we'd replace the boots, not the gloves. So the question to ask is whether the LnL talent is better than the effect of the boots, which I find to indeed be the case:

Simming with just gloves (and ilvl 900 boots) I get 792.4k DPS, simming with both gloves+boots I get 843.2k DPS.


Simming with just gloves and full talents I get 792.3k DPS, simming with just gloves and missing the LnL talent I get 734.6k DPS.


This means simply gaining the LnL talent resulted in a DPS gain of 7.9%, while the effect of the boots PLUS an additional 40 ilvls in the boots slot only resulted in a DPS increase of 6.4%. So the ring would already be superior to the boots based on this test, but this test actually underestimates (probably significantly) the DPS gain from using the ring compared to the boots, for a few reasons:

- The ring would also come with an additional 20-40 ilvls plus a socket in a ring slot. Remember, in the sim comparing the talents, I only had one legendary equipped (the gloves), and enabled/disabled the LnL talent, whereas using the ring would still enable the LnL talent, but also include a whole bunch of extra stats.

- My test only compared the talents with LnL disabled/enabled. In reality the comparison would compare either having just True Aim (no ring) or both True Aim+ LnL together (with ring). These talents have good synergy with each other (True Aim buffs Aimed Shot damage and LnL increases the number of Aimed Shots that you cast), so having them together makes both of them better than they would be individually.

- The LnL talent also has synergy with the T20 4 pc bonus: when casting Aimed Shot twice in a row, you gain +15% crit damage for 6 seconds. LnL lets you cast many more Aimed Shots in a fight (and usually 2 in a row), which means those using the ring will have a higher uptime on this buff. This effect is missed in this test since I was using the gear I had on live (which is T19).

- When we gain the T20 4 pc bonus, we'll lose the T19 4 pc bonus, which will mean Trueshot will get weaker as a cooldown. This means the boots will fall even further behind than shown in this test (since I had the T19 4 pc bonus active).

- With the changes to Vulnerable in 7.2.5, Aimed Shot will become an even larger proportion of our damage, which will make LnL even more powerful (since LnL buffs damage purely by increasing the number of Aimed Shots we cast).

- LnL will also typically be underestimated in sims since having instant cast Aimed Shots gives you some mobility without losing any DPS. This is a real gain in DPS on average, but it will not be shown in sims.

All in all, the new ring is looking to be significantly better than the boots for single target.

[Dracodraco]

You're correct on pure patchwork, but generally, the reason the boots are considered the "universal BiS" for MM is the Trueshot uptime; Having trueshot back up for specific parts of a fight, on demand, is extremely strong for progress (there's no denying that if you can just singletarget 100% without having to do anything else, with no burst moments or expose phases needed, they're not great, but that's mainly a farm-thing). EG, for Krosus, I can generally have trueshot everytime pitch spawns, and that allows me to easily spend the 15 seconds bursting down adds to ensure we kill the boss. Without boots, I don't think I'd have it ready in time.

As you say yourself, the sims don't account for the movement dps gain from LnL. Likewise, the sims do not consider the value of having a heavy burst cooldown ready every ~45-50 seconds.

[Deleted]

Seems like i was really underestimating the gloves then. Probably clouded from the insane hype for the boots. Im playing with the gloves + belt combo and its quite decent. The ring indeed looks promising. Btw i wanted to ask, i have seen the new ring having no stats. I guess its just a placeholder version right?

[Eapoe]

Seems like i was really underestimating the gloves then. Probably clouded from the insane hype for the boots. Im playing with the gloves + belt combo and its quite decent. The ring indeed looks promising. Btw i wanted to ask, i have seen the new ring having no stats. I guess its just a placeholder version right?

Pretty sure Blizzard is intending to have them go live with no stats. Probably in an attempt to make "meaningful" choices and keep the ring from being mandatory BiS OP.
You know, like how Blizz always does things until they recognize a mistake and nerfs things to compensate.
If they had secondary stats, I would guarantee the passive wouldn't be a damage increase effect and would grant things like Disengage for SV, Farstrider for BM/MM, or something along those lines.

[Absoul]

If we have to keep T19 2P then the gloves are gone and the ring might be a good option. Will have to see how the ring actually ends up finished. However, with the t19 nerf it doesnt look like it will make sense to keep for tomb.

[Holovik]

If we have to keep T19 2P then the gloves are gone and the ring might be a good option. Will have to see how the ring actually ends up finished. However, with the t19 nerf it doesnt look like it will make sense to keep for tomb.

That's a good point. If you have to layer your set bonuses for both T19 and T20 then jewelery and/or boots become way more valuable as they don't occupy a tier slot. Could make it so that boots/belt is BIS for aoe with boots/ring being BIS for ST. Like you said though, all depends on how the chips fall with Tomb.

[Deleted]

T19 only had the 4p nerfed (reduce CD of BW per Dire Beast use), not the 2p (50% damage to Direbeasts/10%more damage to the pet during Dire Frenzy).

[Dracodraco]

T19 only had the 4p nerfed (reduce CD of BW per Dire Beast use), not the 2p (50% damage to Direbeasts/10%more damage to the pet during Dire Frenzy).

Except he's talking about legendary gloves gloves, which means he's talking about Marksmanship - not beast mastery. 2Pc Marksmanship was nerfed from 35 focus per 1 sec reduc, to 45 focus.

That being said, considering heroic tomb items are "only" 920, as long as you've got 915-920 titanforged 2 set to equip, it's quite likely that you'll use 2+4pc for most of progression, unless gloves are strictly needed for some reason.

To give some perspective;

Tier cloak+legs drops from boss #5 and #6 in the journal, respectively. They have haste+crit and haste+vers.
Current cloak/legs combo has vers+mastery, and crit+mastery. Much better stats, so even if they were say, 915 vs 920, you'd probably use the "lower" pieces due to itemisation.

Alternatives are a great pair of legs - from the 9th boss in the instance (AKA deep progress, one boss left, not counting titanforging), and two "meh" tier cloaks (both worse by raw itemisation than current tier cloak if the item level matches, due to lower mastery).

Likewise, of the remaining 4x tier items, only the gloves lack mastery - they have crit/vers. Current tier gloves have crit/haste, so we wouldn't want to use them over it, anyway. That means you'll be wearing your 4pc as helm, chest, shoulder, glove ideally - with a potential for cloak if you're not using the old 2pc (AKA wearing legendary gloves).

So realistically, it doesn't even MATTER that they nerfed the old tier set - that's just to make sure we switch out of it in favor of better items. As long as we can keep the old while being "optimal" with the new, we're honestly good to go. Doesn't matter if the bonus was nerfed by about 30%, it's still better than nothing. You'll also have a harder time justifying the arcway set, as one of the 3 good tier pieces in Tomb is the shoulders. Still worth it if you've got high enough item levels, of course, but you'd be stuck wearing helm+chest+legs+cloak if you want that+legendary gloves, or gloves instead of legs if not.

[Absoul]

Except he's talking about legendary gloves gloves, which means he's talking about Marksmanship - not beast mastery. 2Pc Marksmanship was nerfed from 35 focus per 1 sec reduc, to 45 focus.

That being said, considering heroic tomb items are "only" 920, as long as you've got 915-920 titanforged 2 set to equip, it's quite likely that you'll use 2+4pc for most of progression, unless gloves are strictly needed for some reason.

To give some perspective;

Tier cloak+legs drops from boss #5 and #6 in the journal, respectively. They have haste+crit and haste+vers.
Current cloak/legs combo has vers+mastery, and crit+mastery. Much better stats, so even if they were say, 915 vs 920, you'd probably use the "lower" pieces due to itemisation.

Alternatives are a great pair of legs - from the 9th boss in the instance (AKA deep progress, one boss left, not counting titanforging), and two "meh" tier cloaks (both worse by raw itemisation than current tier cloak if the item level matches, due to lower mastery).

Likewise, of the remaining 4x tier items, only the gloves lack mastery - they have crit/vers. Current tier gloves have crit/haste, so we wouldn't want to use them over it, anyway. That means you'll be wearing your 4pc as helm, chest, shoulder, glove ideally - with a potential for cloak if you're not using the old 2pc (AKA wearing legendary gloves).

So realistically, it doesn't even MATTER that they nerfed the old tier set - that's just to make sure we switch out of it in favor of better items. As long as we can keep the old while being "optimal" with the new, we're honestly good to go. Doesn't matter if the bonus was nerfed by about 30%, it's still better than nothing. You'll also have a harder time justifying the arcway set, as one of the 3 good tier pieces in Tomb is the shoulders. Still worth it if you've got high enough item levels, of course, but you'd be stuck wearing helm+chest+legs+cloak if you want that+legendary gloves, or gloves instead of legs if not.

Laid out very nicely Draco.

It looks like we will want to choose between t19 2p (possibly with LNL ring) or Arc/Cos + gloves with our new 4p.

Also looks like we will be going back to farm M Trill and Gul for TF cloak and legs

The reason I think Arc/Cos will still be good is because our 4p is crit damage...which makes Crit chance more valuable (damage multiplies) and I suspect the value of haste to go up also since they are softening up vuln and it might be worth squeezing in more aimed shots. WIll have to wait to see the final numbers tho

What I am expecting in tomb is that our TS windows will be more powerful but we will have less of them. Really hoping that we can switch out boots/cof sometimes because atm they are perma slot


In any case, this makes for some exciting optimisation choices as it looks like there will be multiple ways to go