World PvP

[Kryptoon]

Wpvp should't be enjoyable depending on class, otherwise I don't see the point of pvp servers. Although I had a fully pvp geared warrior most of the expansions, I have always preferred my lock. Legion put an end to wpvp for clothies and I dislike the wham bam, killed your clothie mam' play style.
Past expansion, on open world when a rouge got my clothie down to 15-20% hp, I would still have a chance to come back and I was motivated to fight, while now I only hope I will get to a closer gy.

[GKLeatherCraft]

Wpvp should't be enjoyable depending on class, otherwise I don't see the point of pvp servers. Although I had a fully pvp geared warrior most of the expansions, I have always preferred my lock. Legion put an end to wpvp for clothies and I dislike the wham bam, killed your clothie mam' play style.
Past expansion, on open world when a rouge got my clothie down to 15-20% hp, I would still have a chance to come back and I was motivated to fight, while now I only hope I will get to a closer gy.

Well, Let's not get silly, W-PvP is still very much possible if you're a clothie, You just gotta be smart and avoid the cooldown burst, after that, it's victory time.
A big problem is people in W-PvP panic, blow c/ds then just get smashed, You gotta go defensive when they burst, avoid them, then once their cooldowns are gone, dance around them and kick their butts:P I've done a ton of W-PvP and the amount of bad clothies is crazy, They literally stand still, casting while I'm mangling their face off, probably, 1 out of every 7 I find, actually knows how to play, and will kite etc.

[Kryptoon]

In theory, I do agree ... but practice makes things bad. At least in Legion pvp, which is pretty adverse to casters with all the excessive mobility that melee benefit from.
Try a destro lock, which was my main for years ... not to mention that I switched to a pvp server when leveling it, for the fun of wpvp.
I cannot use HS within a single CB cast to find out if I may die twice ... as there would be plenty of time )

While I agree that devs focus should be primarily on pve toolkit for dragon slaying, pvp should be considered as well when designing an interaction/spell mechanic. With the introduction of templates, I believe devs teams no longer have a full picture of what is designed and while pve team did its job, it will be pvp team turn (with given mechanic they cannot touch) to balance the classes, thus blanket ups and downs that we now see almost each week.

Nevertheless, as long as pvp servers exist I cannot see how a game director (or whatever level at which decision was taken) could imagine that players inhabiting those servers, for a very specific reason, would be happy being left with smaller hp to face dmg intended for pve toons, while their pvp toolkit becomes available only in instanced environments.
However, this may be a workable solution if the plan is to cease any open world pvp, which may be the case with actual CRZ.

[Kralljin]

I take it that you are the kind of player who will enjoy wow on xbox, as with the amount of pruning it will soon be there.

You're mistaken two things.

In TBC you had shitload of buttons, did you have a lot of defensive cd's? No, defensive CD's were not nearly as common as they are now.


I do not think that adding more abilities (Cooldowns in particular) improves the game.

The simple reason is that cooldowns are too similiar, you can design any cd the way you like, at the end of day an offensive cd improves your damage and a defensive cd reduces damage taken.

Of course there are some spins to it, but defensive cd's are the greatest offender when it comes to making a class feel less unique.

Almost any class / spec currently has a spell similiar to shield Wall, take X% less damage for Y seconds, sometimes with an additional effect, sometimes not, but those buttons still feel extremely similiar.

I think it's more healthy for the game if you try to work with existing abilities (or the Template System) to fix issues rather than throwing new abilities on the pile.

you are losing to the template... A ret paladin walking into PvP has no idea he only has 80% of the strength stat he should have at the template Ilvl unless he has followed every single template patch note chance since ALPHA because the information is not fucking available.

I agree, in terms of information, PvP one big mess because Blizzard refuses to give ingame explanation on certain mechanics.

But believe me, Blizzard is extremely lazy when it comes to adding new stuff (especially hotfixes) to tooltips, if they use abilities as sole tuning knob you soon end up checking wowpedia for every ability if you want to know whether it behaves differently in PvP.

Literally any system fails there because Blizzard does not work properly in that regard.

As an example, Lava Burst dealt more damage to players in WoD and could overload an additional time based on your crit chance, both changes were never added to the Lava burst tooltip and i'm fairly certain that lava burst was not the only ability where they did not update the tooltip.

[Matthias]

I honestly agree. I really feel like the ilvl scaling system they had with WoD was working just fine and could have been tweek'd. For example if a class was currently too strong, they could simply nerf their overall PvP ilvl.

Now I see why Blizz never wanted to balance PvP and PvE separately. Dueling and WPvP was a great way to make practice your PvP abilities, while waiting in queue or waiting on teammates or your RBG group to form, etc. I honed a lot of my skills in duels and WPvP learning how other classes function, etc. To say that World PvP is just a by product of the game and we should just piss off is just dumb. WPvP was the original PvP.

It's also sad since this would have been the best time for WPvP in sometime now. There is no flying, and no garrisons so we have a reason to be out and about, on the ground.

[Livix]

Guardian druids are broken

[Kagthul]

Well, Let's not get silly, W-PvP is still very much possible if you're a Mage You just gotta be smart and avoid the cooldown burst, after that, it's victory time.
A big problem is people in W-PvP panic, blow c/ds then just get smashed, You gotta go defensive when they burst, avoid them, then once their cooldowns are gone, dance around them and kick their butts:P I've done a ton of W-PvP and the amount of bad clothies is crazy, They literally stand still, casting while I'm mangling their face off, probably, 1 out of every 7 I find, actually knows how to play, and will kite etc.

Fixed that for you.

[GKLeatherCraft]

Fixed that for you.

Wow, I'd not seen a "Fixed that for you" For a while, I figured people had grown out of that one, Guess not:P

[Kagthul]

Wow, I'd not seen a "Fixed that for you" For a while, I figured people had grown out of that one, Guess not:P

It's relevant.

All the stuff he talks about (properly timing cooldowns, defensives, escapes, etc) applies to Mage. Not to Warlock, S. Priest, who by and large have maybe a single defensive and no worthwhile escapes. And in the case of warlocks, the defensive cooldown isn't strong enough to save you.

A Fury warrior can 2-shot you right through Unending Resolve, and most melee can do it in 4 shots or less. And that's it for defensive cooldowns. Can't kite, cant reliably CC (because you cant do damage during your CC), nothing. No escapes. You're quite likely to die before you can even take a single offensive action.

Keep in mind im solely talking about wPvP here. AFAIK, locks and S. priests are doing OK in BGs and Arenas.

[GKLeatherCraft]

It's relevant.

All the stuff he talks about (properly timing cooldowns, defensives, escapes, etc) applies to Mage. Not to Warlock, S. Priest, who by and large have maybe a single defensive and no worthwhile escapes. And in the case of warlocks, the defensive cooldown isn't strong enough to save you.

A Fury warrior can 2-shot you right through Unending Resolve, and most melee can do it in 4 shots or less. And that's it for defensive cooldowns. Can't kite, cant reliably CC (because you cant do damage during your CC), nothing. No escapes. You're quite likely to die before you can even take a single offensive action.

Keep in mind im solely talking about wPvP here. AFAIK, locks and S. priests are doing OK in BGs and Arenas.

That's the sort of response I was looking for That's much more informative, thanks ^^

[Magical Mudcrab]

How to incentivize world PvP, for lazy developers
> Add world PvP-specific rewards to the game, such as transmog and gear for that season (Legion S4, so 870~ gear)
> Increase the damage done and health of guard mobs, allow people who kill these mobs to obtain a small amount of honor for each kill (1-2 points)
> Add in world PvP quests in non-PvP areas (such as enemy faction cities) that reward honor
> Make Alliance/Horde leaders award honor and are lootable, with world PvP awards available, including many boss-specific transmog rewards, using same lockout as raid bosses

Boom, people will do World PvP again.

[KrotosTheTank]

I can't imagine how people grind for Cristal of the Broken Shore (Sentinax) on a PvP server, it must be madness.

Considering that at this point most PvP servers are over 10:1 faction biased, it's hardly even an issue anymore. I don't even attack horde on my server anymore unless they start it; I just have too much pity for them playing at a nearly 40:1 Alli-Horde ratio.

[chrewm]

I personally LOVE the current world pvp/pvp gear scaling system in place for Legion.

- No more "PVP gear" that I have to carry around in my bag. I wear 1 set for pvp, dungeons, raids, etc (AWESOME)
- World Quests give me reason to go out into the world and world pvp.
- PVP world quests (ie murloc freedom, blackrock rumble, bareback brawl, etc) give a shitload of honor and are fun if you like PVP.


I might be biased, as I am a fairly geared (908ilvl equip), but I really couldn't be happier with the world pvp system as it is (unless blizzard could somehow ban tank specs from pvp).

[ItachiZaku]

- PVP world quests (ie murloc freedom, blackrock rumble, bareback brawl, etc) give a shitload of honor and are fun if you like PVP.

It sure as fuck was NOT fun initially (resto druid - and I can't guardian worth a fuck), but then I learned to Havoc... lol oh yes, massive amounts of fun vs whomever the fuck wants to get some.

[Fjordkeeper]

I think wpvp is fine as it is.
Sure there are some people, who are out of your league because of a gear difference & class, but there are always fights you can win.

The only thing I'd change, is to integrate more wpvp items & world mechanics (tanaan jungle lava comes to mind & gladiator sanctum items).

[Ermelloth]

It's first time since Cata end patch that I've completely stopped WPvPing. In MoP and WoD WPvP was my primary focus; now, with PvE gear, ridiculous trinkets, overpowered bodyguard abilities and stupid toys of different kind, it became simply unbearable.

Whole WPvP guilds died out or almost did; Defias Brotherhood-EU, which was once the WPvP capital of EU realms, is in deep crisis because of that, and few WPvP guilds that remained have to raid in order to get PVE (!) gear to be competitive outdoors. I just said it's too much for me, I hate raiding, so now waiting for an expansion where PVP gear will be dominant outdoors once again.

P.S. I don't really consider these extremely rare cases when an opposite faction player tries to gank me, a real WPvP. If such things do happen and it's a tank specced player, a DH or a dreaded anti-class - a mage, I simply bubble-hearth away if any other, I engage and usually get the upper hand.

[Kryptoon]

I believe blizz deliberately brought wpvp to this stage, forcing all players to "enjoy" their work on pve. Otherwise I don't understand how to overlook the impact of templates on open world encounters, where with a thinner toolkit players are facing dmg intended for pve environment.
There are two ways to deal with wpvp dmg issue: either to decrease the output (at source) when dmg is directed to a player, which failed via templates and secondly to decrease the incoming dmg using pvp gear (at recipient), while leaving dmg against environment the same.
I believe templates were a leap of faith and I'm not against experiencing new features, but templates are now a plague for pvp servers and holinka&pvp crew are too proud to admit it. Or they simply want to totally shift the old feeling of open world pvp into whatever we have now.

[Deleted]

What people have been failing to realize about world PvP is that...

...world PvP is not a facet of the game Blizzard creates, maintains, "balances", or even promotes as a feature of their game. World PvP is a by-product.

Please stop.

[FAILoZOFF]

wPvP at this point is nothing it used to be to the point i avoid it with a passion since i CBA to pay these rats (yes rats, who the fk "allowed" them to leave wPvP in "wild west" state??) https://youtu.be/X6AUq-MXZME?t=700
noting more unpleasant than losing the fight you were never able to win, and has ended in 2 enemy crits...
not long ago there was a post of one dude that basically praised whole wPvP in Legion, at first he hated it... when he was playing a spriest and some other caster... but then all of sudden... he rerolled a rogue and discovered a whole new world... of shitting on every other "lesser" class, except maybe tanks
no sht

[MechaCThun]

Please stop.

Please stop why? Because your personal opinion differs?

Or because you have no legitimate reason and wish to just stir the pot? Your post history seems to imply that.

NurgleBoy pls go.

On topic, at the end of this thread and the countless of theories being thrown around on how Blizzard should do it or why Blizzard should go back to expansion #___ style of PvP/world PvP... everyone's opinion benefits them and will always not be optimal for the other player.

As game designers, Blizzard will do their best to appeal to everyone regardless if they subtly are only focusing on one demographic of players to appease since that's where most of their $ comes from.