How Odious Is the House-Passed American Health Care Act?

[yetgdhfgh]

The problem with the American health service is that its a massive cash trough that everybody gouges on

You have health insurance companies who gouges the customer
You have hospitals and pharm companys that gouge the health insurance company

There is noone to regulate and to negotiate prices so you have pharmaceutical companies charging insane amounts for pills cause they know its all on the insurance company anyway and the insurance company then passes that cost on the customer.

When my mother (who is american btw) broke her arm the cost to have her arm fixed and bandaged was over 50 thousand dollars!! Fuck me if they charged that on the NHS in england (im english who lives in the US) the NHS would go bankrupt in a week!

Luckily she has Health insurance cause my dad has great coverage

Hospitals in America are like fucking 5* hotels and the doctors all drive expensive cars and i can see why!!

[Wyrt]

Its up for debate because the VA is a shit show. People will point to how ineffectual that healthcare system is and how mismanaged it is and they will be right. Universal healthcare would be nice, but with the way a 10 seconds worth of paperwork takes literally 3 months to process, not due to volume but due to pure, "we reached our quota for the week so the boss can't get upset with us lul" bureaucracy.

Had you the power, how would you improve the VA's situations and how would you scale that up to a national level?

Why would we base it on the VA when we have a bunch of friendly countries with functioning healthcare systems we can copy off of?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Its up for debate because the VA is a shit show. People will point to how ineffectual that healthcare system is and how mismanaged it is and they will be right. Universal healthcare would be nice, but with the way a 10 seconds worth of paperwork takes literally 3 months to process, not due to volume but due to pure, "we reached our quota for the week so the boss can't get upset with us lul" bureaucracy.

Had you the power, how would you improve the VA's situations and how would you scale that up to a national level?

It would need actual attention to/ politicians talking about these issues. I mean Healthcare is talked about a lot but VA isn't. I believe it can be done but....corporate bullshit.

[yetgdhfgh]

Its up for debate because the VA is a shit show. People will point to how ineffectual that healthcare system is and how mismanaged it is and they will be right. Universal healthcare would be nice, but with the way a 10 seconds worth of paperwork takes literally 3 months to process, not due to volume but due to pure, "we reached our quota for the week so the boss can't get upset with us lul" bureaucracy.

Had you the power, how would you improve the VA's situations and how would you scale that up to a national level?

Put people who know what they are doing in charge instead of partisan appointed chimps!

[yetgdhfgh]

Who would you recommend? Who knows what they are doing and are not partisan chimps? In the real world you are never given the best case scenario. I am not saying that optimism has no place, but Americans have this bad habit of wanting the best solution RIGHT NOW! And refuse to appreciate small incremental changes even though that is what the US government is built upon.

Well republicans keep harping on about how the private sector does it better why not start from there? Hire someone with years of experience give them a decent wage and see what they can achieve?.

[Wyrt]

Because we live in the real world and what you are asking for won't ever happen. A new national identification card needs to be introduced and it seems as if Americans as a whole are really against that concept even though they have SSNs

The real world where most other developed nations have universal healthcare? I'm pretty sure Americans don't live in the real world.

[PACOX]

Its up for debate because the VA is a shit show. People will point to how ineffectual that healthcare system is and how mismanaged it is and they will be right. Universal healthcare would be nice, but with the way a 10 seconds worth of paperwork takes literally 3 months to process, not due to volume but due to pure, "we reached our quota for the week so the boss can't get upset with us lul" bureaucracy.

Had you the power, how would you improve the VA's situations and how would you scale that up to a national level?

The GOP is against big government and regulations right? While being the de facto party of evangelicals? Promote sweeping reform, reduce bureaucracy in healthcare while pushing universal healthcare because "Jesus healed for free". Leave the Democrats in the dust.

Too bad only had 8 years to figure out a system.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

True. However due to the amount of people being covered, there would need some level of cold corporate bullshittery in order to run the system efficiently.

And yet other places on the Planet that are first world countries seem to be fine with their Healthcare.

[I Push Buttons]

Put people who know what they are doing in charge instead of partisan appointed chimps!

Or we could just go single payer. Universal Healthcare could be an eventuality, but to try to jump straight to it from our current circus of healthcare is absurd.

[Poopymonster]

Its up for debate because the VA is a shit show. People will point to how ineffectual that healthcare system is and how mismanaged it is and they will be right. Universal healthcare would be nice, but with the way a 10 seconds worth of paperwork takes literally 3 months to process, not due to volume but due to pure, "we reached our quota for the week so the boss can't get upset with us lul" bureaucracy.

Had you the power, how would you improve the VA's situations and how would you scale that up to a national level?

Increase funding, a portion of your paycheck goes towards single payer. Kinda like employer health insurance does now, except it's a flat %, you have a job, you're paying in, unemployed, you're still covered. Kids are required to be covered until they are 18.
The government should negotiate with pharma/medical companies over prices. It works in other civilized countries, but Stateside you hear "Then they won't do anything if they can't charge as much as they want", "We're too big for it to work right" (This isn't midget porn), and "MUH SOSHALISM". Let's get rid of this religious church hospital bullshit of not doing procedures that can save lives because "Muh Jeebus"
You're cut costs, you've expanded the money to fund it, and everyone is covered.

If we're going to go for what I personally would do, let's add a waiver.
You turn 18, you can choose to sign a waiver opting out of the insurance in this country. Congratz you wacky libertarian you, you get to keep all the moneys and you aren't helping freeloaders!. You get sick? You're on your own kid. No government assistance, no discharging medical bills via bankruptcy, you are on the hook for all costs. At the non-negotiated price of course, you don't need that government interference. If you have life insurance, it goes to pay those medical bills after you die. Spouse is on the hook for the rest, debt is beyond till death do you part if you're on this course. You've got your rugged individualism, that and those bootstraps will take you far in life.

You want to be part of society and civilization, you pay the price of admission.
You don't want to play by the rules of the society you live in, you're free to move! It's really easy from what I've read on this forum.

[yetgdhfgh]

Or we could just go single payer. Universal Healthcare could be an eventuality, but to try to jump straight to it from our current circus of healthcare is absurd.

I fully support a single paying universal healthcare system

I believe its the only realistic solution that works thats why every other western country has it except America.

But if you think you will be able to break the billion dollar health insurance companies monopoly then you got another thing coming! They will summon all the lobbying forces of darkness that will fight tooth and nail against it and smear any politician who fights against them or back with millions there political rival!.

It will take a very brave president and a very strong majority in both houses to make it happen and lets face it both sides are in the tank for the HMOs!

[Wyrt]

"Most other developed nations" are not "America". Its great to think that we are a whole great global world wide family, but that is not the case. Maybe if America was not 350 million people it would be easier to just stop everything in their tracks and start again but its not going to happen...at least not overnight like you seem to want it to happen.

America isn't some special snowflake where things that work elsewhere don't work here.

[Zan15]

Honestly we all pay for it either way. Because hospitals are legally required to give care to individuals in life-threatening emergencies, regardless of ability to pay. When an individual can't afford their hospital bill (because hospital bills for life-threatening emergencies are often in the six or even seven-figure range), the individual gets sued by the hospital, and the debt eventually discharged via bankruptcy. Because hospitals get little to nothing when debt is discharged, they respond by increasing the cost of services for everyone else. And the cost of premiums for everyone with insurance goes up.

TL,DR: your premiums are fucked either way, might as well give the poor/disabled health care.

No they are legally required to stabilize...not "give care"

once you are stabilized you can get tossed out.

a cancer patient won't get "care".....for example.


you are right, the cost of stabilization eventually gets passed down to everyone and the cost of people being uninsured will always cost people whom have insurance,
but republicans feel this cost is far less then actually giving them FULL CARE.

treating you in the ER will never cost the same as having to treat a cancer patient.

[Poopymonster]

No they are legally required to stabilize...not "give care"

once you are stabilized you can get tossed out.

a cancer patient won't get "care".....for example.


you are right, the cost of stabilization eventually gets passed down to everyone and the cost of people being uninsured will always cost people whom have insurance,
but republicans feel this cost is far less then actually giving them FULL CARE.

treating you in the ER will never cost the same as having to treat a cancer patient.

And after being released "Follow up with your primary care physician". Which you don't have/can't afford.

And it does cost less than full care. Once you die due to a lack of required treatment to live, you're not costing anything. Plus you were probably unemployed due to said illness, goddamn slacker, you're removed a leech and burden on society.

SO MUCH WINNING!
#MakeAmericanGravesAgain.

[smooshtheman]

https://www.aclu.org/blog/speak-free...t-hurts-people

Go watch on youtube how the sleezball demorats got ACA through in the first place and then come back and apologize /endrant

[Celista]

No they are legally required to stabilize...not "give care"

once you are stabilized you can get tossed out.

a cancer patient won't get "care".....for example.


you are right, the cost of stabilization eventually gets passed down to everyone and the cost of people being uninsured will always cost people whom have insurance,
but republicans feel this cost is far less then actually giving them FULL CARE.

treating you in the ER will never cost the same as having to treat a cancer patient.

I still think it's an overall loss numbers-wise. People who do not have health care are sicker and less productive at work, miss work more often. And if they die or have a disease develop to the point that they are permanently disabled, they cannot contribute to the economy.

We really need to switch to a preventative care system, which is FAR cheaper. And of course address the ridiculous cost of health care, I've seen some mind-blowing hospital bills for routine procedures (including my own). In my opinion this is the real reason why health care costs are so ridiculous.

[artemishunter1]

Honestly we all pay for it either way. Because hospitals are legally required to give care to individuals in life-threatening emergencies, regardless of ability to pay. When an individual can't afford their hospital bill (because hospital bills for life-threatening emergencies are often in the six or even seven-figure range), the individual gets sued by the hospital, and the debt eventually discharged via bankruptcy. Because hospitals get little to nothing when debt is discharged, they respond by increasing the cost of services for everyone else. And the cost of premiums for everyone with insurance goes up.

TL,DR: your premiums are fucked either way, might as well give the poor/disabled health care.

Yes, the poor and disable are holy people. We all should sacrifice for the poor and disable people. Just don't tax me, Ok? You pay? or Maybe we can tax EVERYONE, actually EVERYONE i.e. no refund at the end of the year. Everyone INCLUDING illigal aliens and their MANY children pay through a VAT. tax like EUROPE. End Tax credit for poor people having children, we don't need more poor children, we need more middle class and rich children, to dilute their power and get more tax base.

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I still think it's an overall loss numbers-wise. People who do not have health care are sicker and less productive at work, miss work more often. And if they die or have a disease develop to the point that they are permanently disabled, they cannot contribute to the economy.

We really need to switch to a preventative care system, which is FAR cheaper. And of course address the ridiculous cost of health care, I've seen some mind-blowing hospital bills for routine procedures (including my own). In my opinion this is the real reason why health care costs are so ridiculous.

Let us genuinely be honest, the people who do not have healthcare tend to be low skilled workers who are not paying back into the economy. They are net negative to the economy because gov't tax has to subsidize their existance.

- - - Updated - - -

The real world where most other developed nations have universal healthcare? I'm pretty sure Americans don't live in the real world.

U.K. their NHS is in constant need of funding, thus they are lacking in infrastructure investments, the tax burdens to supply the NHS resulted in less middle class population growth, but increase in pop. of third world immigrants and their MANY children, who are burden on the tax payer of native population. This is playing across EVERY NONHOMOGENIZED European country. Homogenized country like norway, its working because all citizens there are contributing and not breeding like crazy, unlike say the non native population from Asia, Africa. A single payer is the route to bankrupcy in EVERY non homogenized nation.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

U.K. their NHS is in constant need of funding, thus they are lacking in infrastructure investments, the tax burdens to supply the NHS resulted in less middle class population growth, but increase in pop. of third world immigrants and their MANY children, who are burden on the tax payer of native population. This is playing across EVERY NONHOMOGENIZED European country. Homogenized country like norway, its working because all citizens there are contributing and not breeding like crazy, unlike say the non native population from Asia, Africa. A single payer is the route to bankrupcy in EVERY non homogenized nation.

It's not the route to bankrupcy. We can spend millions fucking around in the Middle East yet we can't get single payer healthcare? Get real.

[RaoBurning]

Let us genuinely be honest, the people who do not have healthcare tend to be low skilled workers who are not paying back into the economy. They are net negative to the economy because gov't tax has to subsidize their existance.

I'd be a helluva lot more productive if I could get my synthetic thyroid hormone regularly. Would boost my energy, stave off the chronic, weeks long bouts of depression and fatigue, and go a long way to help me keeping down a job. As is, I have 30-odd days of T3 left that I managed to pinch off a family member after they had their dose adjusted. Do you know what it's like knowing that you're a month and change away from being a completely useless piece of shit again? It's not great.

But I don't have a job, so I don't have insurance, and I was turned down for AHCCCS (Arizona's poor people insurance). So the cycle continues ever downward.

[yetgdhfgh]

Its funny how people are ok with the government spending 600 billion dollars on defense yet think health care is socialism and evil!

You have more chance of being hit by a asteroid than a terrorist bomb but you are guaranteed to get sick as you get older but you think its better to build another 3 aircraft carriers instead of having to be able to see a doctor if you get ill?

Dont get me wrong i love the military i served and nearly all my family did too but in this day and age where there is zero chance of another country invading you when you got nukes how can you justify spending that much on the military instead of healthcare which WILL save your life in the future!