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  1. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    You realize it's usually Republicans that try to whitewash US history in textbooks to minimize the negative aspects of it, not Democrats...right?
    Kinda not what's happening right now, but feel free to change it when it hurts your feelsies in a decade or 15.
    O Flora, of the moon, of the dream. O Little ones, O fleeting will of the ancients. Let the hunter be safe. Let them find comfort. And let this dream, their captor, Foretell a pleasant awakening

  2. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by kasuke06 View Post
    Yes, let's forcibly rewrite all our history books so that we were always and forever the good guys and never had slavery, or anything more complex than "we good, rest of world bad, cash your welfare check and vote democrat so the mean republicans don't make you actually fucking work, you lazy hippy shit."

    Oh wait, I forgot to put that into dem. *baaa baa baaa ba ba" It's just a move by a politician who's on his way out of office so he can actually show his true colors.
    If you want to wave your Confederate Flag in your house and on your property then you go fucking nuts. The problem is when you want to wave it on a government building then we have a problem. The Confederate Flag is a battle flag of traitors to the U.S. who broke away over many issues but mainly over the rich not losing their slaves to keep their wealth and power. They broke away and fought the U.S. they are traitors. Not flying traitors flags on government buildings is in fact not "whitewashing" history that would be like asking Germany to wave Nazi flags over their government buildings and crying that by not doing so you are "whitewashing" history.

    infracted - minor flaming
    Last edited by pathora44; 2017-05-15 at 05:27 AM.

  3. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    Republicans do indeed. But what would you call striking all this stuff from the public eye?

    Plus, it seems funnier to have a school named after Jeb Stuart filled with black students. His legacy is now providing education to the people he viewed as lesser.
    Taking down the monuments that were erected to celebrate some of these evil treasonous bastards? I'm pretty down with that.

    As long as they continue to teach kids about all that shit, as it's super important to remember it, and not try to downplay the atrocities that were committed during the slave days. I don't have any problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by kasuke06 View Post
    Kinda not what's happening right now, but feel free to change it when it hurts your feelsies in a decade or 15.
    You brought up rewriting history books, yo. Unless you're saying that your post claiming that history books are being rewritten was incorrec to begin with, in which case we can call the whole thing a wash and a collective waste of time.

  4. #144
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    Quote Originally Posted by pathora44 View Post
    If you want to wave your Confederate Flag in your house and on your property then you go fucking nuts you racist piece of shit. The problem is when you want to wave it on a government building then we have a problem. The Confederate Flag is a battle flag of traitors to the U.S. who broke away over many issues but mainly over the rich not losing their slaves to keep their wealth and power. They broke away and fought the U.S. they are traitors. Not flying traitors flags on government buildings is in fact not "whitewashing" history that would be like asking Germany to wave Nazi flags over their government buildings and crying that by not doing so you are "whitewashing" history.
    wow, calling me racist for wanting to preserve the bad parts of history so we never forget them. And flags never came up once. Manufacture some more outrage? and nazis. Man you must be burning calories performing all those mental gymnastics.

    Fun fact: Dudes showing up in black masks, body armor, and with sniper support to smash up your monuments are the tools of dictators, not democracies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    You brought up rewriting history books, yo. Unless you're saying that your post claiming that history books are being rewritten was incorrec to begin with, in which case we can call the whole thing a wash and a collective waste of time.
    they're attempting to get rid of history that offends them. I believe in preserving all history, especially the "bad" parts. If I do end up doing noteworthy things in my life, I want them to include not just triumphs, but every single failure. Every "Drunkenly shouting at cars at 9 AM because my dog died and I drank a double of scotch." Every "Dumbass almost cut his thumb off trying to make a salad", "Forgot to look both ways and got hit by a bus, got up, and yelled at the driver until he got free fare for a single ride."

    From beast wars of all places: "Tell my tale to those who ask. Tell it truly, the ill deeds along with the good, and let me be judged accordingly. The rest is silence."
    Last edited by kasuke06; 2017-05-15 at 05:29 AM.
    O Flora, of the moon, of the dream. O Little ones, O fleeting will of the ancients. Let the hunter be safe. Let them find comfort. And let this dream, their captor, Foretell a pleasant awakening

  5. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by kasuke06 View Post
    Fun fact: Dudes showing up in black masks, body armor, and with sniper support to smash up your monuments are the tools of dictators, not democracies.
    Do you have to wonder the context around why all of that protection is necessary?

    Just a thought, broskito.

  6. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by kasuke06 View Post
    wow, calling me racist for wanting to preserve the bad parts of history so we never forget them. And flags never came up once. Manufacture some more outrage? and nazis. Man you must be burning calories performing all those mental gymnastics.

    Fun fact: Dudes showing up in black masks, body armor, and with sniper support to smash up your monuments are the tools of dictators, not democracies.
    The reason they were wearing masks and body armor is because they received threats of violence for taking down the statue. Also these same people are the same ones fighting over removing Confederate Flags from government buildings. People who claim that flying a Confederate Flag is in no way racist and purely "to support their heritage" are just fooling themselves. It would be like a guy claiming he was straight but liked to have his dick sucked by men.

  7. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    Taking down the monuments that were erected to celebrate some of these evil treasonous bastards? I'm pretty down with that.

    As long as they continue to teach kids about all that shit, as it's super important to remember it, and not try to downplay the atrocities that were committed during the slave days. I don't have any problem.



    You brought up rewriting history books, yo. Unless you're saying that your post claiming that history books are being rewritten was incorrec to begin with, in which case we can call the whole thing a wash and a collective waste of time.
    Yep. I will totally think slavery is okay from being in the presence of things related to the confederacy.

    It's a fine line to dance. Otherwise, you start calling people who have confederate flags racist. And then I'll be confused by the people who have me as a family friend while having that flag.

  8. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    Yep. I will totally think slavery is okay from being in the presence of things related to the confederacy.

    It's a fine line to dance. Otherwise, you start calling people who have confederate flags racist. And then I'll be confused by the people who have me as a family friend while having that flag.
    As far as I'm concerned, they are. They're flying the flag of the losing side of a civil war that was still largely about slavery for the South (I'm aware the North weren't benevolent and willing to go to war to free the slaves, but to go to war to preserve the union). Flying the flag of the losing side of a civil war is already bad enough, but when it also represents something as odious as slavery it's even worse.

    I'm struggling to think of other major Western countries where the losing side of their civil wars (you know, the ones now considered traitors) are still so celebrated, and can't say I can think of any off the top of my head.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by kasuke06 View Post
    they're attempting to get rid of history that offends them.
    No, they're getting rid of monuments that were erected to celebrate these men.

    The history is still there, that's not going anywhere. As long as it's written in books and taught in school, it will be remembered.

    You're confusing the removal of a physical object with the removal of knowledge.

    Quote Originally Posted by kasuke06 View Post
    I believe in preserving all history, especially the "bad" parts.
    Generally most countries pull down the monuments that were erected by their respective rebel groups in civil wars, the monuments erected to dictators/tyrants/authoritarian regimes, the monuments that were put up to celebrate these dark times of the country.

    They will have monuments to remember them often times, but they're very different than those erected to celebrate them.

    Quote Originally Posted by kasuke06 View Post
    If I do end up doing noteworthy things in my life, I want them to include not just triumphs, but every single failure. Every "Drunkenly shouting at cars at 9 AM because my dog died and I drank a double of scotch." Every "Dumbass almost cut his thumb off trying to make a salad", "Forgot to look both ways and got hit by a bus, got up, and yelled at the driver until he got free fare for a single ride."
    Cool story. And even if the monuments to these men are removed, all those dirty bits of US history will continue to be taught to kids.

    Unless Republicans get their way and get to whitewash US history into some fantasy of the US as the ever prefect bastion of moral superiority who has never had a dark day in her life.

  9. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    As far as I'm concerned, they are. They're flying the flag of the losing side of a civil war that was still largely about slavery for the South (I'm aware the North weren't benevolent and willing to go to war to free the slaves, but to go to war to preserve the union). Flying the flag of the losing side of a civil war is already bad enough, but when it also represents something as odious as slavery it's even worse.

    I'm struggling to think of other major Western countries where the losing side of their civil wars (you know, the ones now considered traitors) are still so celebrated, and can't say I can think of any off the top of my head.
    I take it you actually don't live in the South. Plenty of people fly it for pride in living down here and not hatred of blacks. Fuck, I haven't heard anyone actually say "The South will rise again!" outside of jokes about the South.

    Again, friends that fly it. Why aren't they lynching me, o savior of mine?

  10. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    I take it you actually don't live in the South. Plenty of people fly it for pride in living down here and not hatred of blacks. Fuck, I haven't heard anyone actually say "The South will rise again!" outside of jokes about the South.
    I do not live in the South, and I'm aware of why some may fly it. But I don't give a shit, because that's a stupid, dumb, awful fucking reason to fly the flag of the losing side of your countries civil war, especially when it's got the specter of slavery so closely associated with it.

    If they wanted to create a flat of a giant truck, transporting the biggest smoker filled with meats you've ever seen, with a howitzer and .50 caliber machine gun on either end, rolling coal, with a platter of fried food instead of a driver, and whatever other Southern stereotypes you can think of to show off their pride, I wouldn't give a rats ass. If they like the flag and feel proud of it, good on them.

    But don't do it with the god damn losing side of a civil war, especially if you're going to pretend to be patriotic.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    Again, friends that fly it. Why aren't they lynching me, o savior of mine?
    Because I don't subscribe to stupid hyperbole.

  11. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by putridegaming View Post
    While I do condemn this gathering I do feel these removals might end up as whitewashing history. Simply put, removing these statues could lead to history of the confederate south being put as a fairy tale like ww2 or cold war something that we use as a boogeyman but not real because it could "NEVER EVER" happen again (notice the emphasis). But please dont take this comment as supporting alt-right cause I hate those people and the day bannon is ousted from the white house I can finally sleep at night.
    This isn't really a relevant argument. Removing statues like this is not a move to forget history. Simply a move to cease celebrating terrible periods in history. Kind of like how tearing down a Rommel statue wouldn't be an attempt to "forget that Nazis existed", but just to take down a statue celebrating a particular Nazi (Rommel chosen specifically for this example because, like Lee, he was a comparatively even-tempered and decent man, despite the horrors committed by those he served).

    We can remember the dark parts of our history without overly celebrating them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    I take it you actually don't live in the South. Plenty of people fly it for pride in living down here and not hatred of blacks. Fuck, I haven't heard anyone actually say "The South will rise again!" outside of jokes about the South.

    Again, friends that fly it. Why aren't they lynching me, o savior of mine?
    The point is that's it's basically like flying the red-white-and-black Swastika flag of the Nazis because you're "proud of your German heritage". If you DON'T support Nazi ideologies, then it just means you're completely ignorant of the symbol you're using and what it stands for.

    Same goes for people using a Confederate flag as the symbol of their "pride" while, by your argument, disavowing all the central ideals of said Confederacy.


  12. #152
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    I do not live in the South, and I'm aware of why some may fly it. But I don't give a shit, because that's a stupid, dumb, awful fucking reason to fly the flag of the losing side of your countries civil war, especially when it's got the specter of slavery so closely associated with it.

    If they wanted to create a flat of a giant truck, transporting the biggest smoker filled with meats you've ever seen, with a howitzer and .50 caliber machine gun on either end, rolling coal, with a platter of fried food instead of a driver, and whatever other Southern stereotypes you can think of to show off their pride, I wouldn't give a rats ass. If they like the flag and feel proud of it, good on them.

    But don't do it with the god damn losing side of a civil war, especially if you're going to pretend to be patriotic.



    Because I don't subscribe to stupid hyperbole.
    Yes you do. Hence why everyone that doesn't consider this flag an endorsement of slavery is racist to you.

    Now. How about you tell me how I must be terrified to live down here because of statues of long dead assholes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    This isn't really a relevant argument. Removing statues like this is not a move to forget history. Simply a move to cease celebrating terrible periods in history. Kind of like how tearing down a Rommel statue wouldn't be an attempt to "forget that Nazis existed", but just to take down a statue celebrating a particular Nazi (Rommel chosen specifically for this example because, like Lee, he was a comparatively even-tempered and decent man, despite the horrors committed by those he served).

    We can remember the dark parts of our history without overly celebrating them.

    - - - Updated - - -



    The point is that's it's basically like flying the red-white-and-black Swastika flag of the Nazis because you're "proud of your German heritage". If you DON'T support Nazi ideologies, then it just means you're completely ignorant of the symbol you're using and what it stands for.

    Same goes for people using a Confederate flag as the symbol of their "pride" while, by your argument, disavowing all the central ideals of said Confederacy.
    Then we must remove the American flag. Slavery happened under it.

  13. #153
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post

    Generally most countries pull down the monuments that were erected by their respective rebel groups in civil wars, the monuments erected to dictators/tyrants/authoritarian regimes, the monuments that were put up to celebrate these dark times of the country.

    They will have monuments to remember them often times, but they're very different than those erected to celebrate them..
    Just going to point out the the monument in question was not erected by a "rebel group." It was completed and installed in 1924. The artist that conceived it was Henry Shrady (same dude who did the Ulysses S. Grant monument at the capitol and son of Grant's person physician) and was completed by Leo Lentelli (an Italian immigrant who came to this country in 1914.)

    Where was this statue designed and built? White Plains, New York. Surely a hotbed of rebel southerners in 1924.

    Lee Park, where it is installed is part of the Virginia Civil Wars Trails program which highlights historical locations outside of the National Parks with information pertaining to the History of the American Civil War. Who donated the land for Lee and Jackson Parks respectively? Paul McIntire, who while he lived mostly away from his home city still took it upon himself to donate the land and commission statues for Lee, Jackson, Lewis, Clark, Sacajawea and George Rogers Clark.

    So unless we got some time-traveling Confederates, I'm pretty confident that this wasn't a "monument erected to dictators/tyrants/authoritarian regimes" by "rebel groups" in order to "highlight the dark times."
    Quote Originally Posted by Mardhyn View Post
    Now this is just blatant trolling, at least before you had the credibility of maybe being stupid.
    Quote Originally Posted by SourceOfInfection View Post
    Sometimes you gotta stop sniffing used schoolgirl panties and start being a fucking samurai.

  14. #154
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    Then we must remove the American flag. Slavery happened under it.
    You're confusing "tangentially associated with" and "integrally defined by the existence of". The Confederacy's primary reason for existing, by the Articles of Secession filed by the individual States themselves, was to defend and protect the institution of slavery. Slavery and the Confederacy are inseparable. The same is clearly not true of the USA, since it's been fine without slavery for 150 years, and it was never integrally defined by the institution, unlike the Confederacy.

    This is a pretty damned obvious difference in context, but you know that it's a false equivalence, you're not this oblivious.


  15. #155
    Did they leave the pitchforks in their pickups or something?

    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    Then we must remove the American flag. Slavery happened under it.
    Sounds like a good plan. Although from the way things are going you'll disgrace whatever flag you replace it with in short order anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tojara View Post
    Look Batman really isn't an accurate source by any means
    Quote Originally Posted by Hooked View Post
    It is a fact, not just something I made up.

  16. #156
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    Nazis gonna nazi.

    Maybe Spencer is afraid to show his face during the day.
    If I may, where do Nazis come into the story?
    PROUD PROUD PROUD PROUD
    PROUD PROUD PROUD PROUD
    PROUD PROUD PROUD PROUD
    PROUD PROUD PROUD PROUD
    PROUD PROUD PROUD PROUD
    PROUD PROUD PROUD PROUD

  17. #157
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    You're confusing "tangentially associated with" and "integrally defined by the existence of". The Confederacy's primary reason for existing, by the Articles of Secession filed by the individual States themselves, was to defend and protect the institution of slavery. Slavery and the Confederacy are inseparable. The same is clearly not true of the USA, since it's been fine without slavery for 150 years, and it was never integrally defined by the institution, unlike the Confederacy.

    This is a pretty damned obvious difference in context, but you know that it's a false equivalence, you're not this oblivious.
    How about the genocide of the native americans? Maybe something recent like the destabilization of Central and South America?

  18. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dextroden View Post
    How about the genocide of the native americans? Maybe something recent like the destabilization of Central and South America?
    Neither of those are integral components of what the United States was formed to be.

    Slavery was the central purpose of the Confederacy, explicitly.

    You're still making egregious false equivalencies, and I really don't think you fail to grasp this stuff.


  19. #159
    Quote Originally Posted by -Nurot View Post
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.992e44a11659

    This happened on 5/13 in Virginia. Am I the only one disturbed by the level of creepy emanating from this event?

    What type of person thinks it's a good idea to join a protest led by;

    A: Richard Spencer

    B: In the dark of night but with torches

    C: In the defense of a civil war statue while chanting

    Is this a sequel or re-enactment to Dr. Frankenstein's monster?
    The moment those torches got lit and brought out in a public domain the fire department / anti riot should of shown up with pressure hoses at dosed them all out. That protest is the literal definition of stupidity right there. It would have only taken one drunken idiot in that crowd to set off a fire or one heated argument or one person whos deliberately is there to cause mayhem

  20. #160
    Quote Originally Posted by Foosha View Post
    Civil war was NOT about slavery. Abe adopted the slavery angle later for support and moral. The war was basically industry vs. agriculture, and the North having too much power in the Government. Then, as the war started, it was Abe who wanted to fight for the continuity of America.

    You might be able to tie in the agriculture and slaves bit, but that's as far as i'll allow it.
    Don't tell that to the South, they sure as hell thought it was about slavery. They seceded due to slavery, and started the war due to slavery. How long had Lincoln been in power, before they seceded, claiming slavery as the cause?

    https://www.civilwar.org/learn/prima...eceding-states

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