[MISTWEAVER] 7.X Discussion Thread

[Deleted]

I dislike the EnM set bonus as well. Great for 5 man content but useless in most raid content. Maybe useful in Mythic raids but tank healing is rather the job of another healer instead of a Monk using EnM.

When the ENM costs 16500 mana then enm is good even in raids. 4 part is the real reward from the setbonus.

[Supliftz]

When the ENM costs 16500 mana then enm is good even in raids. 4 part is the real reward from the setbonus.

basically this, it doesn't really matter how "bad" enm is in a raid setting if it costs 0 mana and resets tft.

[Nyel]

basically this, it doesn't really matter how "bad" enm is in a raid setting if it costs 0 mana and resets tft.

The thing is, it's only good because it costs 0 Mana and resets TFT. The skill itself is mostly useless. That's my problem here. But it seems like this is how Blizzard is "fixing" things. First with Effuse, SG and Shaohao and now this.

[stross01]

A few quick questions:

Whispers of Shaohao: does it heal only in the vicinity of the mists themselves? What's the range? If I leave an area with mists, will Whispers do anything?

Effusive Mists: is it worth it to emphasize Effuse more to get more mists in a group setting?

Mastery: how much mastery is too much mastery?

[Floopa]

A few quick questions:

Whispers of Shaohao: does it heal only in the vicinity of the mists themselves? What's the range? If I leave an area with mists, will Whispers do anything?

Effusive Mists: is it worth it to emphasize Effuse more to get more mists in a group setting?

Mastery: how much mastery is too much mastery?

1) it's 40 yards range of the MW.
2) in a group setting probably 0 because vivify is so much better. in a raid probably 0 because effuse is garbage.
3) if your mastery rating is above 0, you probably have too much

[Montegomery]

1) it's 40 yards range of the MW.
2) in a group setting probably 0 because vivify is so much better. in a raid probably 0 because effuse is garbage.
3) if your mastery rating is above 0, you probably have too much

Your answer to 1 is actually incorrect. Whispers' range is 30 yards from each individual mist (SEE: The March 29 hotfixes). It'd be a hell of a lot nicer if it was based on the monk's location.

[Nyel]

2) in a group setting probably 0 because vivify is so much better. in a raid probably 0 because effuse is garbage.
3) if your mastery rating is above 0, you probably have too much

Vivify with proc is much better, Vivify without proc isn't. You can spot heal with Effuse to gather more stacks for SG - it's mana efficient and overall more effective unless you really need the group healing immediately. And your post regarding Mastery might sound funny but is wrong as well or at least highly dependent on your playstyle.

[ribthanwa]

rant time
so, i just saw 2 piece and it's absolute crap. The idea to put more reliance on enveloping mist (arguably) worst single target healing spell in game for raids ? seriously EM in raid enviroment just overheals, it would make so much more sense to put the proc on vivify, or maybe make it so effuse heals more(especially since the 7.2 trait synergies), or even better, make the proc for SG so it makes SG instacast, it wouldn't be overpovered since it's proc, and it would fix the issue with forcing us to use pointless spell for reseting TFT ,because in raids EM is worthless, and in m+ mana is not an issue. At this stage you can as well put that 2 piece proc on transcendence or paralise and it would do roughly same amount for your healing. welll those are my toughts, EM is historically one of shittiest and least used spells in MW toolkit, the design about this spell is in my opinion mental, 8 sec strong hot that heals for 30-25% on a long cast time is just silly, mw are not single target healers and never were, so what's now with this silly 2p ?

Evm is FAR from useless. It is an extremely strong single target heal and it is the spell we have to cast if we want to max out our HPS (ignoring mana). The reason we don't cost it is because of the prohibitively high mana cost, which the tier set directly fixes. If you proc the tier set, EVM will be competing for the best spell you can choose to cast. As it was for old revival, it doesn't matter how much it overheals if it always tops of the target, because that is literally why you cast anything.

A few quick questions:

Whispers of Shaohao: does it heal only in the vicinity of the mists themselves? What's the range? If I leave an area with mists, will Whispers do anything?

Effusive Mists: is it worth it to emphasize Effuse more to get more mists in a group setting?

Mastery: how much mastery is too much mastery?

The mists spawn and then become immobile. When you consume them with SG, WoS will heal a target nearby to the location of the mist, within 30 yds (calculated for each mist). This means that if you are walking through a m+, many of them will become out of range quickly.
There is no such thing as too much mastery, at least for a specific amount. All that matters for us is secondary stat weights, which you can use Garg's spreadsheet at peak of serenity to figure out.

1) it's 40 yards range of the MW.
2) in a group setting probably 0 because vivify is so much better. in a raid probably 0 because effuse is garbage.
3) if your mastery rating is above 0, you probably have too much

There are a lot of situations to stack up SG via effuse over using vivify. The fact is, a fully stacked SG with all the mists in proximity is a HUGE heal in m+ and will easily pick up a group from a burst of damage. See above for mastery. Most of the "BiS" pieces from NH have mastery on them.

[Supliftz]

The thing is, it's only good because it costs 0 Mana and resets TFT. The skill itself is mostly useless. That's my problem here. But it seems like this is how Blizzard is "fixing" things. First with Effuse, SG and Shaohao and now this.

it doesn't really matter if EnM has 50% overheal it costs x4 less mana and resets tft tho

[Signals-ZJ]

How does the TFT reset interact with focused thunder? If you have 2 charges and spend it on EnvM, does it reset the cooldown or is the proc wasted?

People are complaining now about their sheilun's gift being sniped but at least all of that healing occurs right when the cast finishes. Trying to spot heal with EnvM procs is going to be even worse. I almost feel like the proc should also make EnvM instant cast, which the TFT reset sort of provides but in a very awkward way. If TFT is already on cooldown then you can't opt to spend the reset on the EnvM that procs it.

[sh1r1n]

Looks like t20 tier bonuses were reworked again on the ptr, thoughts?!?

Monk T20 Mistweaver 2P Bonus Essence Font has a 30% chance to grant Surge of Mists, reducing the cost of your next Enveloping Mist by 75%.

Monk T20 Mistweaver 4P Bonus When you consume Surge of Mist, your healing done is increased by 12% for 10 sec.

[Deleted]

stupid maintenance buff game play aside (fuck ilterendi), isnt that also A LOT worse than the previous iteration

cloak seems cool, shoulders seem worthless

oh well

[Ryanite]

stupid maintenance buff game play aside (fuck ilterendi), isnt that also A LOT worse than the previous iteration

cloak seems cool, shoulders seem worthless

oh well

Not only is it a lot worse, it makes no sense and can't possibly be finished. So blizzards saying you'd get a 30% CHANCE to reduce the cost of eneloping mist by 75%? on a what was it 12 second cd? wot...

Then just getting a % healing increase for 10 seconds? geez Bliss really didn't strain themselves on this one, I'd hate for them to have to put any thought into MW.

[Deleted]

After testing the new t20 it feels bad, wanting the Dancing Mist (t20 4part buff) for ef means have to use macros like
#showtooltip
/cast Essence Font
/cancelaura Surge of Mists

Or delaying the 15 sec long surge of mist til cooldown is up for new ef..

[Montegomery]

If you spam Essence Font on CD the expected PPM is about the same as the old 2p. The obvious problems with that being that chain-casting your strongest AoE heal is a bad idea if there isn't meaningful AoE healing to be done, and even if it wasn't a bad idea we don't have the mana for it anyway.

The great part about the 2p bonus was that it didn't disrupt our healing choices, it augmented them. Periodically we'd simply get a cheaper, stronger heal to toss on someone in more dire need. The new 2p bonus is bad because it turns Essence Font from a choice into something we want to press at every opportunity or else why bother with T20 at all?

[Rife]

If you spam Essence Font on CD the expected PPM is about the same as the old 2p. The obvious problems with that being that chain-casting your strongest AoE heal is a bad idea if there isn't meaningful AoE healing to be done, and even if it wasn't a bad idea we don't have the mana for it anyway.

The great part about the 2p bonus was that it didn't disrupt our healing choices, it augmented them. Periodically we'd simply get a cheaper, stronger heal to toss on someone in more dire need. The new 2p bonus is bad because it turns Essence Font from a choice into something we want to press at every opportunity or else why bother with T20 at all?

The current T20 wouldn't be worth taking over better itemized or higher ilvl pieces. It's trash.

It's funny to see other classes complain that their talent ring is shit compared to their BiS legendaries.

I'm just sitting here thinking ours is just as shit as all the others. Surprise surprise.

Sometimes I play my Hpal just to remind myself how it feels to have legendaries and tier bonuses that aren't fucking garbage.

[Supliftz]

haha xD nerfs t20 because of rising thunder

nice to know rising thunder is still killing new mistweaver from its grave

[Nyel]

Well they wanted to bring us away from spamming EF and now they're implementing a set bonus that brings us back to spamming EF. They just don't have a clue. And Mist Wrap as Legendary talent is not so bad but using Life Cycles then with the revamped T20 bonus seems a bit odd, doesn't it? This is Blizzard's Monk balancing...

[Floopa]

the MW changes this build are actual nerfs to the spec.

enjoy your tier Z healer while druids/paladins/shaman remain tier S

even the new legendary cloak is a huge fucking meme "doorway to nowhere" LMAO, yep. that's suitable for MWs alright.

[Deleted]

The first time I read the effect of our ring I see mistwalk in place of mistwrap. Would have been interesting to have this talent back trough a legendary effect even if it was not OP it could have been fun.

Old T20 had much more depth than the new one but it is not so bad hps wise.
I we can delay for at least 30s surge of mist, we should have at least one active per minute. With one proc per minute, the T20 is:
2P: 4125mp5 which is equivalent to 2.7% (with 0.66 weight from the old Geodew spreedsheet). I know it is less to 2.7% due to overhealing of EnvM but you have the order of magnitude.
4P: 12%*10s/60s=2%

That is too strong to be ignored but too weak to really have an impact ... exactly like our T19.

These changes are RT oriented so we should expect some change of this talent in the next PTR builds but they really should have focus on the core problems of the spec rather than crappy talents and Essence Font spam.

When they first discuss the change to Essence Font they explain that it was holding back the spec but nothing has been done so far expect some tuning of vivify. The problem is that they overestimate the mastery value increase with double mastery chasing. I have done hots hunting for months, even before 7.2, as I was not bound to Essence Font spam in heroic and it has no strong impact on mastery. Half of the time you have to heal those with lowest hp not those with hots. The healer is in the raid to keep people alive not doing the highest hps possible.