Do heroic only, raiding guilds exist?

[Aggrophobic]

I'm sure they exist but I don't see the point other than not liking the 20 man mythic idea maybe?
Still don't get why they removed 10 man or just let mythic have flex as well. Too lazy to try and balance it I guess.

[klaps_05]

the thing is, do you even need a heroic only raiding guild? Since Legion, I havent had a heroic guild but pugged full heroic clears in the first week when heroic was released for EN/TOV/NH. Only Helya took me a 2nd reset to kill with a pug, but was managed too. On a realm with 6 guilds at 9/10 M, I am the 4th highest ranked DPS(2nd class-wise) and I do only m+/heroic clears/first 3 in mythic NH.

So if you can be ranked as one of the highest DPS without needing the gear from Mythic raiding, and you can pug full heroic clears without commiting to schedule/groups, why would you need a Heroic raiding guild? Mythic is where good players progress, Heroic progress guilds sound just awful.

[Gandrake]

in warlords of draenor our guild had every intention to go mythic but we were faced with the arduous difficulty of forming a competent 20 man core who had the patience to build and demonstrate competence

it was soul draining

i'll probably never set foot inside of another raid again if i resubscribe because i am just done with it. you used to just be able to go kill some fuckin dragons and take their purples. now you have to grind a legendary to do fuck all

like that fucking ring. it was better than you were and it was worth more than you were. if you didn't have it then you may as well have not even been level 100 and gotten used to being afk watching cat videos and standing in shit in LFR. stupid as fuck.

this obsession with legendaries and making sure everyone gets one has taken a massive shit all over the quality of the game.

[chronia]

So if you can be ranked as one of the highest DPS without needing the gear from Mythic raiding, and you can pug full heroic clears without commiting to schedule/groups, why would you need a Heroic raiding guild? Mythic is where good players progress, Heroic progress guilds sound just awful.

Depends on what kind of player you are, are you the mercenary type that doesnt truely bond with players, yes, then there is not much use to be in a heroic progress guild if you are just after clearing stuff as fast as possible and pugs deliver that opportunity

However tons of Normal and Heroic guilds that progress at their own pace in Normal / Heroic and maybe dabble in Mythic are the friends and family type of guilds. Players that on some occasions are playing 12 years together, or atleast the guild core usually players together for a long time. They usually don't care for the fastest progress possible, but care about clearing the place at their own pace with their long time friends of which usually some players are (alot) better then others. I don't think in general thats awful, and i also don't think those guilds should be called bad guilds as sometimes happens on these forums. Its just a different mentality and playstyle from the hardcore raiders that raid Mythic prog with the goal of killing the end boss asap.

[Fabinas]

Alrighty then, I gave a TLDR version,

I don't post meters, I keep en eye on the meters for own benefit, for example I should have been doing a bit more than I was.
We're all casuals and we're a casual guild (I thought that pretty obvious from the time to clear I gave, which are pretty long compared to most), I'm not an elitist, I don't scorn people for doing anything wrong or pulling a lower DPS.
Yes I know my rotation, yes I expect everyone in a heroic raid to know the same, yes I also expect mistakes to happen, missed CDs, pop to early on hc and the likes it happens.
I don't know about your guild, but we didn't (don't) have a single person in the raid group who ignores mechanics, we decide what we're going to do, we pull. If it works great, if it doesn't we reflect and change. For example star caller was wiping us as I mentioned, so we kept our top two dps on him while the rest of us saved our CDs for the first add. It went down.
As for a team player? I help out when I can from general discussions to bringing extra flasks and food for those who forget.
As for my attitude, its completely calm and straight forward. I personally do not care if we spend the entire week wiping on the same boss. Frustrated if the same person gets hit by the same thing? Yes, but we make an effort to high light that and help them understand how to overcome it.

So being benched has absolutely 0 reason to do with my attitude or play style, I'm one of the most laid back guys on the team. We've got a few who have egos the size of Everest, for example one bloke likes to continually have his mic on open and does a over exaggerated sigh each time someone dies or we wipe. Another one gets sarcastic and is frankly a complete dick to a few people who play his class because he's doing better than them.

Yes, I'm annoyed at being benched when I more than make it past the minimum requirement, if I was benched to bring in a guildie, say a new trial member but he was sub par and needed gear, I wouldn't mind. If a raider had come back to the game and wanted to see the raid I wouldn't mind. If we had two many of the same class, I wouldn't mind. In my mind, in guild it doesn't matter what the reason for being benched is and I have 0 issue with that. My issue is being benched to bring in someone else, from another guild who can barley be arsed to sign up 50% of the time. Since this isn't the TLR version, this person just happens to have a family relation to the RL of the other guild, and that RL is raiding with us. You don't do that to your guild members, you especially don't do that (without blowing my own trumpet) to someone who has had your back since the first day in joining, from passing on loot to those who need it more to farming mats for hours so people could have free enchants and food to paying a full faction and server change to ensure a raid happened. Literally, brought my tank over for one night raid because the RL and GM we're getting shit because they had one tank and we're going to call it for a third time on the trot.

In a nut shell, I help out, I pull my weight and some backdoor deals have gone on which have resulted in me being shat on. And you know? I stayed, I went on the Saturday night runs on normal to help people get gear so they could join the HC team - regardless I didn't need any standard drops from there. Monday nights a group of us organize Mythic key stone and night bane runs to help people gear, again mostly raiders looking for upgrades (and people their mounts). Lastly, not as big of an effort as the other two, but when I get a free random hour here or there, I run either a EN normal / HC run to use up some BLP, usually I get about 5 raiders from the guild, who want to do it, but can't be arsed to set it up themselves. These are all things I don't have to do, but I do, because I enjoy spending time with people and I don't mind helping out, even when I'm not raiding for what ever reason.

However, as I said a final nail in the coffin is the attitude of "yea I got the kill now, we'll wait for ToS before carrying on" Notice I said I and not We. This is because I know from an officer the GM's had enough of the game and can't be arsed to play any more, but doesn't want to give up the position. The RL is more interested in playing HoTS and won't organize any run without the GM being in the group. I can be happy in a guild that only wants to do HC, it's fine. But this attitude sucks donkey dick, it's just pure selfishness, if they want to quit or go afk for a period to play other games, then they should be passing the reins on to one of the other current raiders who has the skill set to set up the raids, which we do have and are willing.

So you'll forgive me if I've hit the point of being done, but any sane person can only take so much. Maybe I should of worded my original post a bit better, in regards to this new guild, it was purely accidental I discovered I had an alt in there still, I got lucky to have a guild of that level that potentially are willing to give me a trial - tbh a trial that'll probably result in me not being up to scratch. If that wasn't an option I'd be looking into guilds on the same level as the current one I'm in, or close to it, even if it was just a HC one.

but to finish and be blunt - Don't you dare assume I'm one of the types of people you've described, pretty much everything you've described are attributes I despise in players usually because they have the piss poor, self inflated ego to go with it and usually have enough influence to cripple a guild if they throw a hissy fit

*Dodges wall of text*

PWND!

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the thing is, do you even need a heroic only raiding guild? Since Legion, I havent had a heroic guild but pugged full heroic clears in the first week when heroic was released for EN/TOV/NH. Only Helya took me a 2nd reset to kill with a pug, but was managed too. On a realm with 6 guilds at 9/10 M, I am the 4th highest ranked DPS(2nd class-wise) and I do only m+/heroic clears/first 3 in mythic NH.

So if you can be ranked as one of the highest DPS without needing the gear from Mythic raiding, and you can pug full heroic clears without commiting to schedule/groups, why would you need a Heroic raiding guild? Mythic is where good players progress, Heroic progress guilds sound just awful.

You also forgot to mention the huge size of your member, how you impregnate our mother's and sisters daily and manage a full time work schedule, family and friends.

Sarcasm aside, what works for you (solo queue) does not work for many other people who prefer a known circle of people to share their game time.

[Rotted]

*Dodges wall of text*

PWND!

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You also forgot to mention the huge size of your member, how you impregnate our mother's and sisters daily and manage a full time work schedule, family and friends.

Sarcasm aside, what works for you (solo queue) does not work for many other people who prefer a known circle of people to share their game time.

you're a curious little individual aren't you?

[primalmatter]

They are kind of rare... Most players move on from those guilds. They used to exist back in tiered content as feeder guilds but now they are mostly replaced by pugs.

[cface]

If they exist, where do you find them? I rarely see them in chat trying to find more players.

[Sonnillon]

If they exist, where do you find them? I rarely see them in chat trying to find more players.

I would say that at least some guilds don't actively recruit in trade. Maybe reply to someone who is looking for a guild in forums, to someone who asks in trade themselves, offer spots to friends and friends of friends or PUG members which keep joining them. They most probably don't need to recruit - people find them or they find people.

[Fabinas]

you're a curious little individual aren't you?

Am I? Both mails have little relevance with the topic. One is a rant about player proficiency and the other an ignorant "I only exist, therefore noone else should" post. Answers deserved.

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If they exist, where do you find them? I rarely see them in chat trying to find more players.

Also WTF? what kind of server has only mythic guilds recruiting, but not heroic ones? Definitely not mine (Magtheridon EU). If you happen to be in an overpopulated cesspool and you see only mythic guilds recruiting, you aren't watching good enough.

[Exigent]

(Sorry a bit long again, tried to cut it down)

I've been completely legit, nothing dodgy went on. I should of added one last bit, while doing normal progress, the officers pug the HC version, they get better gear, the raid progresses better next week, all understandable.

Anyways, we're still progressing in NH when one Saturday the majority of the raid team log on, and immediately go to NH. Turned out there was a trial run for NH HC, now at this point I wasn't ready. I hadn't long switched raiding characters (they wanted a melee instead of a elemental shaman), and two others who were good enough weren't told.

Anyways the two people at that point were on the 450k mark I think? Anyways a few mins prior to starting it was pointed out in G chat we weren't there. I said I wasn't aware there was a run tbh and no one else replied to anything, but that was fine.

Anyways long story short. They had organised this run private, then sent out wisps to people opposed to using the calendar (we use that not a website due to both guilds being involved) I wasn't good enough, the other two were benched for two people doing higher DPS than them from the other guild.

So I politely asked to speak to the GM in private discord. I just asked if I could offer some advice, which was (in a nut shell, I didnt directly say it like this or these exact words)

1) If you don't want specific players in a raid, just give them a heads up for what ever reason, don't go about it cloak and dagger. It's not pleasant doing your own stuff then noticing your team all doing a raid without you
2) When the raid team agreed to do a joint venture for mythic with another guild, we didn't realize that would include regular normal and heroic runs, it's fine but should their members really be giving priority over our own members?

He wasn't overly impressed and spent the next 30 minutes - civilized - but ranting about respect. Since then he hasn't come on any event the three of us have set up to help out / do for fun. So it very well could be that. If it is that, I just find it pathetic tbh

But as I say, everything I've said is legit, I don't see the point in lying I could come here and say its a bad guild, its a bad gm, they do this they do that, and the odds are I would gain the majority of the replies on my side, but that wouldn't change shit and offer no actual constructive criticism so it's a waste of my time and other peoples time which are offering their 2 cents.

Honestly, it could be any number of things. My first instinct is to assume you're lying or leaving out some crucial detail, but that's the internet for you; we could all be cats.

At the end of the day, it's a good thing that you've moved on, both for your own enjoyment of the game and for the roster of players you've left behind. No good will come from dwelling on what you believe transpired. Good luck with the new team.

[Zka]

In short: yes.

[kneehidude]

Maintaining a roster of 20 able people is way harder than killing the first bosses on mythic, so yes, these guilds exist and there are thousands of them.

And that right there is the problem.

Unfortunately when 25 and 10 mans were put on the same level, a lot of 25 man guilds split up over the course of the next few expansions in favor of 10 man. This basically doubled the amount of guilds. Now players have left the game and mythic (formerly heroic) went to 20 man. So now you have way too many guilds and not enough players. So a lot of guilds need to die in order for others to grow.

We've seen a lot die and some grow over the past couple of years (since WoD) but there are still a lot left.

[Rotted]

Am I? Both mails have little relevance with the topic. One is a rant about player proficiency and the other an ignorant "I only exist, therefore noone else should" post. Answers deserved.

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Also WTF? what kind of server has only mythic guilds recruiting, but not heroic ones? Definitely not mine (Magtheridon EU). If you happen to be in an overpopulated cesspool and you see only mythic guilds recruiting, you aren't watching good enough.

Kind of, anyways wasn't intended to be off topic, I gave an an ontopic answer, someone called me out basically labeling me a cunt ingame wise, so I gave the full description of what happened to clear that up. Pretty much a dammed if I do, dammed if I don't situation

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Honestly, it could be any number of things. My first instinct is to assume you're lying or leaving out some crucial detail, but that's the internet for you; we could all be cats.

At the end of the day, it's a good thing that you've moved on, both for your own enjoyment of the game and for the roster of players you've left behind. No good will come from dwelling on what you believe transpired. Good luck with the new team.

Oh, I'm only tempted with the new team, my main character is still in the original place still loitering and helping people out. Funny enough last night it was my turn to get nightbane, only one person showed up xD

[Puri]

If they exist, where do you find them? I rarely see them in chat trying to find more players.

Simple, as they are not bound to a certain raid size there is no urgent need to actively look for players unless they fall below a certain raid size or miss key roles.
Even if they are missing some players for a specific raid you will always have some friends (even from other realms) to help, or list in the tool. Our last two guild members were people who randomly joined our raid over the tool as obviously we prioritize people from our own realm.

[Kagonos]

I can weigh in on that as i manage one such guild in Darksorrow-EU , we have steadily cleared heroic content pretty fast and then stopped for the last 3 tiers , before that we would do some mythic raiding whilst collaborating with other such guilds . The reason why dont aim for higher is that irl gets in the way , the guild has been around since october 2005 , thats almost 12 years, many people have come and gone but the core has remained the same , for reference of how irl interferes , our main tank and one of our officers met online in the guild 11 years ago , they are on their 2nd kid now and yeah we take mandatory breaks mid-raid so she can put the kids to sleep and such and literally nobody minds , its just we are friends and family at this point and new people that come in (friends of friends etc) usually like it and merge nicely . We had one guy to started playing because one of the guildies poked him for over a year , he came he got gear really fast we well everything on farm then 1 month later he went onwards to a mythic guild (5/10M NH guild) , no hard feelings this has happened a lot before and we really dont mind at all , but the dude couldnt stand the people there , argueing about loot, going crazy over 1 extra trash pack pulled on accident stuff like that . He was back after 1 more month and all's good :P. Anyway hope i gave you a bit of insight on the heroic-only guilds concept.

This is almost exactly my situation as well. At this point, I have told anyone who wants to jump ship to find a mythic raiding guild that there will never be any hard feelings and they are always welcome back, but our guild will never be attempting Mythic raiding and we are fine with that. #1 reason being the lack of 20 dedicated people and the lack of desire to recruit. #2 I do not enjoy stress and I prefer to have fun with WoW.

[Kluian05]

My guild fits this bill. We raided hardcore for 7 years usually maintaining Top US 10-20th position, until we decided to call it quits after finishing DoS in Cata. For MoP, WoD, and Legion we've remained casual since its easy with flex raiding and just do heroic clears.

We certainly have the skill and some of us the desire to raid Mythic, but majority of our core only wants to raid one night a week. The biggest reason for not wanting to do Mythic is the requirement to recruit and maintain a roster needed to do Mythic. We don't actively recruit for a heroic roster. Its just our normal core group that's been in the guild for ages and random friends that have joined along the way.

[Kaizun]

I would say that at least some guilds don't actively recruit in trade. Maybe reply to someone who is looking for a guild in forums, to someone who asks in trade themselves, offer spots to friends and friends of friends or PUG members which keep joining them. They most probably don't need to recruit - people find them or they find people.

I would say this is pretty accurate, at least for my guild. We progress normal (usually a week or two tops) and then progress through heroic. We only have 15ish raiders, and some of them do not have the skill/dedication for mythic. We typically don't need to recruit- we may recruit once per expansion. Otherwise people find us, or we stick with the core group we've had for years.

[Kuruption]

There's about 10 of us who have raided with each other since BC. When they made the swap to a fixed 20 in WoD, we thought we'd be content with heroic. Well we were wrong, so we tried recruiting for Mythic in BRF. We were able to do 5/10M before HFC came out, and then we just started seeing burnout happening (4-6 hours a week). We got HFA down, and had a 1% wipe on Iron Reaver, but then I went on vacation, and the raid died. So we just decided to stick with heroic.

In Legion, same deal happened, we got tired of heroic EN, and merged with another guild, and while we cleared 7/7M in 2 weeks, it was obvious some of the players in the other guild just weren't that good. We did kill Mythic Skorp (not that big of an achievement) and then it just exploded. Merge failed, people went back to their guilds, and now the 14 of us are just sticking with heroic because none of us want to deal with the crap of getting 20 people anymore after the merged failed. But we're fine with it, and looking forward to ToS.

[Dug]

I wish I could find a steady one. Every guild that I've joined that does heroic progression is amazing, I love it, but inevitably we get to the end of that progression and people want more. I personally have 0 interest in doing Mythic raiding especially with the headache that is getting 20 players together.

So it's always the same cycle, do lots of heroic, dabble in mythic with pugs, people get angry with each other because nobody wants to log on for raid nights just to pug mythic, guild dies. I'd start my own guild for HEROIC ONLY but I don't feel confident in being a guild leader/raid leader.