Legion - Assassination Discussion

[elfporn]

So right now BTI can TF up to 925?

Yep. I'm sure you've seen other old trinkets titanforging up over 900. The limit used to be 895.

[Deleted]

As far as i know, T19 TF cap is at 925. If it was 955, they will have to give it another nerf, otherwise people would still be farming T19 since 2PC is still strong. If you get 2 If you get two pieces of T19 with high item lvl, you obviously dont have to wear ToS offset items, which wouldnt be appealing at all. Thats why ist more logical they Keep the cap for T19 at 925 to make ToS items just more attractive.

As mentioned already every piece of gear can proc up to the maximum tf cap. With ToS the TF cap will increase.

But the chance to get an old piece of gear procced to new tf cap is quite low.

The exact chance for a wf/tf proc was never officially released. The general assumption is somewhere between 10 and 20%. This means, if you get an item, you have a 10 to 20% chance of an +5 ilvl proc. For every successful dice roll you receive an additional dice roll. This continues until a dice roll fails.

Mythic T19 has an base ilvl of 905. This means you need 6 successful dice rolls in a row (10 to 20% chance each) to get to the mythic T20 ilvl (prognosis: 935) or 10 successful dice rolls in a row to get to the new tf cap (prognosis: 955).

Mythic T20 should have an base ilvl of 935. It requires "only" 4 successful dice rolls in a row to get the 955 ilvl.

[glowpipe]

A while back i read about them changing up rogue in 7.2.5 especially outlaw. But i also read that they where removing Agonizing poison i think ? Is that happening or have i dreamt ? Shouldn't that change already be on the ptr if they where doing it ? can't be that long left until the patch is live.


Another thing. For Surge of toxins, envenom and energy. Am i supposed to always delay envenom for the last second on Surge ? I tend to go out of energy and be unable to keep it going. I guess im not conserving energy enough. I am using envenom when i got 4+ cp. Do i have to start pool more energy and delay the cast to get more energy for the next one ?

[cfStatic]

A while back i read about them changing up rogue in 7.2.5 especially outlaw. But i also read that they where removing Agonizing poison i think ? Is that happening or have i dreamt ? Shouldn't that change already be on the ptr if they where doing it ? can't be that long left until the patch is live.


Another thing. For Surge of toxins, envenom and energy. Am i supposed to always delay envenom for the last second on Surge ? I tend to go out of energy and be unable to keep it going. I guess im not conserving energy enough. I am using envenom when i got 4+ cp. Do i have to start pool more energy and delay the cast to get more energy for the next one ?

It was supposed to be, but then got taken off the chopping block. Speculation on why is sort of all over the place; 'they didnt know what to replace it with' 'balancing the numbers because AP is so good' etc.

As for the second part: If I'm not mistaken - You should clip surge at the last possible second, but once you fall behind and are struggling to do so then you're supposed to pool and begin again.

[Zoyt]

It was supposed to be, but then got taken off the chopping block. Speculation on why is sort of all over the place; 'they didnt know what to replace it with' 'balancing the numbers because AP is so good' etc.

As for the second part: If I'm not mistaken - You should clip surge at the last possible second, but once you fall behind and are struggling to do so then you're supposed to pool and begin again.

how do you know AP wont be removed? or are you just speculating? i know its maybe abit late for this PTR cycle, but they could always just buff our damage aura after the removal.

[Cyanix]

how do you know AP wont be removed? or are you just speculating? i know its maybe abit late for this PTR cycle, but they could always just buff our damage aura after the removal.

Because they have no clue how to balance 'sin without AP.

Heck, they have no clue how to balance rogues at all.

[cfStatic]

how do you know AP wont be removed? or are you just speculating? i know its maybe abit late for this PTR cycle, but they could always just buff our damage aura after the removal.

All speculation on my part. Personally I just think they cba removing, replacing, and balancing the numbers afterwards. They did a bang up job with AP. Removing it without properly tuning the numbers afterwards is going to be like walking off a cliff damage wise.

[MADCATX]

Draught scales with Agonizing Poison (and therefore Surge of Toxins). It does not scale with Vendetta.

From my testings draught doesn't scale with Agonizing Poison. Where did you get info that it scales with agonizing? Tooltip for agonizing poison lists only rogue special abilities (and is similliar to vendetta tooltip).
I tested it again yersterday and damage to target doomy from draught without agonizing poison was the same as with applied agonizing poison. (I would surelly notice 40% difference if it was working on trinket damage).

[Tyze]

Are people planing to go Assa in 7.2.5? Or has stuff changed for Rogues?
I'm mostly interested in Assa and Sub.

[samao]

From my testings draught doesn't scale with Agonizing Poison. Where did you get info that it scales with agonizing? Tooltip for agonizing poison lists only rogue special abilities (and is similliar to vendetta tooltip).
I tested it again yersterday and damage to target doomy from draught without agonizing poison was the same as with applied agonizing poison. (I would surelly notice 40% difference if it was working on trinket damage).

Mine does 470k crits without AP, 670k with.

[broggernaut]

Mine does 470k crits without AP, 670k with.

It's affected by Surge of Toxins, so that's probably what you're seeing.

[SSJones]

Are people planing to go Assa in 7.2.5? Or has stuff changed for Rogues?
I'm mostly interested in Assa and Sub.

Pretty sure most folks are waiting for some damage tuning passes on the PTR before deciding which spec to focus on. You'll have time to get them all to 52 before Tomb opens, anyways.

[Chawan]

It's affected by Surge of Toxins, so that's probably what you're seeing.

It is affected by AP.

Without AP: http://i.imgur.com/weYttvJ.png
With AP: http://i.imgur.com/I9wtIHe.png

[samao]

It's affected by Surge of Toxins, so that's probably what you're seeing.

Not quite. Surge of Toxins just makes AP more effective. For SoT to affect Draught of Souls, it means AP must affect it.

I tested with SoT + AP, without SoT and with AP, and various stack counts of AP with and without SoT. The damage scales with AP, and SoT is just an extra modifier on AP.

My base 5 stacks of AP increases target damage taken by 40%, or 50% with SoT up, and my DoS hits for roughly 230k per tick base. With 5 stacks of AP it ticks for roughly 325k. This is about a 40% increase. It becomes 345k with SoT (which makes AP 50%), a 50% increase as you'd expect.

[Won7on]

It was supposed to be, but then got taken off the chopping block. Speculation on why is sort of all over the place; 'they didnt know what to replace it with' 'balancing the numbers because AP is so good' etc.

As for the second part: If I'm not mistaken - You should clip surge at the last possible second, but once you fall behind and are struggling to do so then you're supposed to pool and begin again.

At this point, I'm pretty sure AP isn't getting removed either. Not until 7.3, at least. We would have seen PTR changes by now. 7.2.5 is about a month away and at Blizzard's glacial pace, they can't basically rework half of Assassination in that time. Sub and Outlaw changes have been in the pipeline for months now, there's no way they'd be delaying Assassination this long unless they had shelved it altogether for a later patch.

[shaunika123]

At this point, I'm pretty sure AP isn't getting removed either. Not until 7.3, at least. We would have seen PTR changes by now. 7.2.5 is about a month away and at Blizzard's glacial pace, they can't basically rework half of Assassination in that time. Sub and Outlaw changes have been in the pipeline for months now, there's no way they'd be delaying Assassination this long unless they had shelved it altogether for a later patch.

"reworking "half of assasinatioN" would entail changing 2 talents (or 1 if they ignore alacrity) :P

[Won7on]

Not really, it would need to be accompanied with massive buffs to single target, but those ST buffs would have to be targeted in such a way as to not overbuff Bleed build vs Poison build. Then there's also the issue of AoE to worry about and how the 2 different builds would do it. Our built-in AoE without AP is Poison Knives, but that's a trait that's gonna be much better for the Poison build now. Are they ok with that? Would they need to give Bleed builds a way to AoE effectively too? Then, basically every T15 and T90 talent would need to be tweaked in some way, along with general ability tweaks, and probably tweaks to the Mastery. And then you've got knock-on effects - for example if you buff bleed damage too much, well now Zoldyck might become a completely OP legendary again and they'd need to nerf it. And this is just PvE we're talking about, when you consider PvP implications, everything gets 5x more complicated.

It's really not as simple as "remove AP", "buff spec aura by 40%", unfortunately.

[permp]

When the next PTR build will be released?

Still no change on assa and i am worried about how hard they will fuck assa...

[Verdugo]

When the next PTR build will be released?

Still no change on assa and i am worried about how hard they will fuck assa...

There wont be any drastic changes on assa, for better or worse.

[shaunika123]

Not really, it would need to be accompanied with massive buffs to single target, but those ST buffs would have to be targeted in such a way as to not overbuff Bleed build vs Poison build. Then there's also the issue of AoE to worry about and how the 2 different builds would do it. Our built-in AoE without AP is Poison Knives, but that's a trait that's gonna be much better for the Poison build now. Are they ok with that? Would they need to give Bleed builds a way to AoE effectively too? Then, basically every T15 and T90 talent would need to be tweaked in some way, along with general ability tweaks, and probably tweaks to the Mastery. And then you've got knock-on effects - for example if you buff bleed damage too much, well now Zoldyck might become a completely OP legendary again and they'd need to nerf it. And this is just PvE we're talking about, when you consider PvP implications, everything gets 5x more complicated.

It's really not as simple as "remove AP", "buff spec aura by 40%", unfortunately.

it sort of is though
all they need to do is: make poison build the AOE build and bleed build the ST build
give us an AOE talent instead of AP

buff our % to compensate for the loss of AP and blamo

sure that's more difficult than i expressed but still
it's waaay waaay less than what they are doing with outlaw or sub