Legion: Worst expac for recruiting?

[Arainie]

Pretty much always been this way. The only different is, the "garbage" tier people or so they have been referred, you would previously been potentially interested in. But you can't really afford to spend time developing people mid tier, you can do this end tier or start of tier, so it's all about timing there.

Not really. We've never required more from our applicants than to be interesting in some way. Whether this is experience, gear, progress or personality differs between each applicant, but if you bring neither you're not going to have an easy time finding a guild. Most applications we get now are full one-line answers, ilvl 900 with decent traits but no Mythic experience at all from any expansion. How attractive are you to a Mythic focused raiding guild when you fail to bring anything concrete to the table yet you don't even try to compensate by promoting yourself? (ie "Why should we pick you? - I am good dps and want to raid mythic." is not a great way to convince someone you're actually good).

I mean, this guild and the only other guild-ish (2 guilds that really consisted of 50% the same people) wouldn't even bat an eyelid before declining applications like this in the past. Nowdays we have to consider them not to drop below our magical number of 25 active raiders. Some obviously turn out to be decent, but we also decline around 80-90% of the applications we get.

[Feral Druid ist Op]

It wouldn't be a problem if it was possible to reroll, which it isn't at the moment.

LOLWUT? you can gear up a Toon to 900+ilvl in one Day form nethershards, Guild carrys and buy AK from main. You will still get 52 traits until ToS is out.

[Deleted]

Not really. We've never required more from our applicants than to be interesting in some way. Whether this is experience, gear, progress or personality differs between each applicant, but if you bring neither you're not going to have an easy time finding a guild. Most applications we get now are full one-line answers, ilvl 900 with decent traits but no Mythic experience at all from any expansion. How attractive are you to a Mythic focused raiding guild when you fail to bring anything concrete to the table yet you don't even try to compensate by promoting yourself? (ie "Why should we pick you? - I am good dps and want to raid mythic." is not a great way to convince someone you're actually good).

I mean, this guild and the only other guild-ish (2 guilds that really consisted of 50% the same people) wouldn't even bat an eyelid before declining applications like this in the past. Nowdays we have to consider them not to drop below our magical number of 25 active raiders. Some obviously turn out to be decent, but we also decline around 80-90% of the applications we get.

I think an issue is you looking into having mythic experiance from previous expansions and that is a detriment to yourself its like IRL when jobs are looking for someone around 25 and with 10 years exp. For me at least in WoW this issue never applies as I have played the game since vanilla and up to end of wotlk did almost nothing but hardcore raiding and in every expansion after that had at least 1 raid tier I could bother doing seriously. The thing is what about people who start playing in Legion? shouldent people actually be trying foster new blood seeing as there seems to be a lack of people to pick from, I know for a fact if no one had given me a chance in the past I dont think I d ever have done the raids I have done even though the chances given to me were in vanilla and easily built on in in coming expansions. If someone is only looking for people with 10 years experiance or people who are at their current lvl or progression ofc this cuts away 99.9999999999% of people you are able to recruit from, I am in no way telling you to give everyone a chance but that everyone starts out somewhere and the only time I d really find issues with people who have played for a long time trying to go into mythic raiding is if they only done LFR/Normal in the past.

[Deadite]

Unless your raid then guilds seem mostly pointless and organized raiding doesn't seem that popular. Raiding these days is exclusive rather than inclusive.

[emilylorange]

Yeah, lot of useful Feedback here on MMO-Champion! I wonder why some people are tired of whiny or repetitive threads from people that no longer play or hate this game! Let's hope Blizzard cares to listen us!

/S

lol no one is forcing you to read the thread that you managed to find the whiniest way to whine about.

On topic tho.

I basically don't see a point for a guild anymore. You can clear heroic by pugging. You can get pretty far into mythic by pugging if you're on one of the megaservers. You also don't have obligation to any of those people you pug with beyond that 3 or whatever hours, or maybe that lockout if you feel charitable. You don't have to tolerate guild member's bullshit week in and week out. You're not beholden to DKP or similar systems that allow hoarding or favoritism. You can hang out with your IRL friends when you like and raid when you like.

With the introduction of small scale raiding by splitting into 'equal' difficulty 10 and 25s at the end of LK, there came an end to the social contract of guilding. This was further eroded by 'normal' and 'flex' raiding.

Generally I am far more likely to pull the trigger on a gquit now than I ever was pre-cata. Guilds are indistinct from each other, and I don't feel great loyalty to a group of strangers that clearly also feel no loyalty towards me or the organization.

[Trapped]

It's terrible, WoD/20M making 2/3 of the Mythic playerbase quit mythic was a real problem but in Legion it's hit boiling point. Now that it's super easy to pug heroic and lower via the in game tool most players don't see a point in being in a raiding guild that isn't doing mythic content (so good look moving from 10/10H to 1/10M if you can't find the extra people).

The funny thing is, despite Legion/WoD slowly dissolving the mythic playerbase as players quit the game (or just mythic raiding) and guilds fall apart with no players/guilds to replace them, the players who aren't being affected will still defend the 20m format because "it isn't raining on them" (yet).

It's becoming harder and harder to continue to field 20 players, it's also becoming more and more impossible for the <20m guilds to step up to the recruitment wall, and the really REALLY annoying part of watching the raiding scene dying, is that this is EXACTLY what players told Blizzard would happen back when they announced the change from 10/25 to 20m >.>

I agree with this. I do think the introduction of Mythic (20-man strict) dissolved a lot of the raiding guilds, and people gave up. I think guilds as a whole are starting to become antiquated in the sense that you don't really need them to see "most" of the content. Before LFG/LFR, you needed a decent guild to see the raids, now you don't. People seem to be very against being tied down to a strict raiding schedule anymore, even if its 2 nights a week. I really think this is the common denominator in why guild recruitment is the way it is nowadays.

Also, too many guilds, not enough players. Everyone and their brother wants to run their own guild, but on a lot of servers, this makes the recruitment pool weaker for other guilds.

[Sanguinerd]

I don't see any reason to raid mythic or be in a guild for it when I can be in a cozy guild and just pug hc alone or with friends whenever I please.

[Kelathos]

It wouldn't be a problem if it was possible to reroll, which it isn't at the moment.

I have to agree, completely. As a Heroic raider I feel the sting of AK / AP / Leggo requirements...
I cannot imagine many people want to do what is necessary to maintain that on various specs / alts for Mythic raiding.

[Svisalith]

I have to agree, completely. As a Heroic raider I feel the sting of AK / AP / Leggo requirements...

Why do you feel it? If you're honestly stuck at a wall in Heroic with a full guild group then there are issues to fix that will improve your raids performance a lot more than having some more weapon levels or better legendaries.

[Usernameforforums]

The 20m requirement has been brutal to say the least.

We've struggled to keep that number afloat. People that we do get seem to stop logging in or quit because we can't seem to stay at that magical number and actually make the attempts. Heroic is just a blaze in one night finish.

Yet 40 wasn't because vanilla lololol

[The7]

I could easily find job in NASA as main engineer with requirements that mythic guilds are asking from players these days.

This, exactly. Mythic raiders recruiters get no sympathy from me.
"Hurr durr, worst expac for recruiting" *proceeds to ask unrealistic requirements*

As long as Blizzard continues to cater to that half dozen, the game will continue to crumble. I mean, Ion already admitted in a Q&A that they wasted too much resources in those solo challenges (explicit made to please the mythic crowd) and next patches (/expansions?) are struggling in content because of it.

[Serissa]

We're 8/10M almost 9/10 with 6 hours raiding a week and we basically get one application per week, most of them garbage tier with no mythic experience.

"We are 8/10M! We are Elite! Everyone below just trash!"

Your attitude is main problem in recruitment. Why don't you pick someone and train him? Or do you really expect 10/10M applicants? Nope, not gonna happen.

[emilylorange]

Yet 40 wasn't because vanilla lololol

um except yeah?

I was 18 when I started playing wow. I'm 30 now. Which means:

-I work 60+ hours a week
-I have other adult obligations like household maintenance
-And you know maybe occasional social outings
-People my age usually have young families (the main tank in my horde guild often has to play with his baby on his lap lol)
-WoW is not as attractive as its competition, so younger blood is hard to find


In essence, the population is aged, and yeah, finding 40 people 3+ nights a week with 3-4 hours free is going to be harder.

Fuck it ya'll we got laundry that needs doin

- - - Updated - - -

I mean, this guild and the only other guild-ish (2 guilds that really consisted of 50% the same people) wouldn't even bat an eyelid before declining applications like this in the past. Nowdays we have to consider them not to drop below our magical number of 25 active raiders. Some obviously turn out to be decent, but we also decline around 80-90% of the applications we get.

May mythic guilds continue to burn themselves into the ground.

[Kelathos]

Why do you feel it? If you're honestly stuck at a wall...

That's a whole lot of assumption about me and my own. I "feel it" cause the sheer amount of effort to "build up" an alt goes well beyond just funneling gear and watching their ilvl climb. No, we're currently on farm for Heroic Nighthold... but during progression it matters. And no we will not be recruiting 99th percentile players to avoid needing that extra push. It's a casual / friends / goon guild. We make do with the talent we have, and sometimes that means we hit a wall during progression where in the following weeks item level does make a difference.

Now I'm picturing Mythic... where top performance is required to even participate. And the additional requirements to prep characters this expansion seems like they'd be too much work for the reward. Especially on multiple characters. On Heroic we make do because we can. There's no choice on Mythic - you will min/max. Who has the time? Based on this topic, not many.

[Deleted]

lol no one is forcing you to read the thread that you managed to find the whiniest way to whine about.

On topic tho.

I basically don't see a point for a guild anymore. You can clear heroic by pugging. You can get pretty far into mythic by pugging if you're on one of the megaservers. You also don't have obligation to any of those people you pug with beyond that 3 or whatever hours, or maybe that lockout if you feel charitable. You don't have to tolerate guild member's bullshit week in and week out. You're not beholden to DKP or similar systems that allow hoarding or favoritism. You can hang out with your IRL friends when you like and raid when you like.

With the introduction of small scale raiding by splitting into 'equal' difficulty 10 and 25s at the end of LK, there came an end to the social contract of guilding. This was further eroded by 'normal' and 'flex' raiding.

Generally I am far more likely to pull the trigger on a gquit now than I ever was pre-cata. Guilds are indistinct from each other, and I don't feel great loyalty to a group of strangers that clearly also feel no loyalty towards me or the organization.

Why do people, who don't feel the need for a guild, play this game? I am not saying they shouldn't, just don't quite understand. If it wasn't for the social ties and interactions I, personally, would've quit in WoTLK already. I don't see how the game has anything special to offer in contrast to most of the newer games out there (MMORPGs or simply RPGs).

I do know many of the guild these days are just organizations made up of strangers, which is why I can't seem to enjoy the game nor can I tolerate raiding mythic as well as I used to. It's not just the time, I just don't have the loyalty for these random 19-24 people.

I would've thought things would've been even more focused on improving the social sides of the game instead of abandoning them in favor of easier and quicker access to things. Maybe I am just not part of the target audience anymore.

I don't however see the point in logging on just to do things solo or with strangers. There are far better options out there for that kind of stuff, that do not require a subscription fee. Like I have traded farming AP, Mythic + grind and WQs for doing side quests and exploring the world in Witcher 3. Far more engaging gameplay and no sub fee.

[Evilmaniac]

Maybe if guilds start raiding on the 2 days i'm actually able to raid on maybe I'd apply, but all i ever see are the same 3 weekdays. Never Saturday and Sunday which is the only days I can reasonably commit to raiding. It's sad cause there are like 20 different guilds making or bumping their threads on my realm forums, and it's always Tuesday, Thursday, and some other random day.

[Deleted]

Maybe if guilds start raiding on the 2 days i'm actually able to raid on maybe I'd apply, but all i ever see are the same 3 weekdays. Never Saturday and Sunday which is the only days I can reasonably commit to raiding. It's sad cause there are like 20 different guilds making or bumping their threads on my realm forums, and it's always Tuesday, Thursday, and some other random day.

Yeah this is one of the issues I've encountered as well. It has been like that for long while imo, but still the reason is always about wanting to spend time with family during the weekends. Why not just have an earlier weekend raid and enjoy the evening with family.

[emilylorange]

Why do people, who don't feel the need for a guild, play this game? I am not saying they shouldn't, just don't quite understand. If it wasn't for the social ties and interactions I, personally, would've quit in WoTLK already. I don't see how the game has anything special to offer in contrast to most of the newer games out there (MMORPGs or simply RPGs).

I do know many of the guild these days are just organizations made up of strangers, which is why I can't seem to enjoy the game nor can I tolerate raiding mythic as well as I used to. It's not just the time, I just don't have the loyalty for these random 19-24 people.

I would've thought things would've been even more focused on improving the social sides of the game instead of abandoning them in favor of easier and quicker access to things. Maybe I am just not part of the target audience anymore.

I don't however see the point in logging on just to do things solo or with strangers. There are far better options out there for that kind of stuff, that do not require a subscription fee.

Well you're asking someone who just recently unsubbed and the first thing I did to prepare for hiatus was type "gl;hf;gg" and /gquit in all honesty, because I don't give a single solitary shit

But I'm an introvert. I'm fine with group activities but I enjoy long periods of time just doin' my own thing (and kind of need it to recharge anyway). When I started in 2005 it wasnt until about exactly a year later in 2006 I did my first raid. Annnnd $15 is still cheaper than a lot of other entertainment out there.

My 'lasting' relationships and friendships in the game are all pre-cata. Beyond that, well, I find the whole guilding experience indistinct and uninspiring. I have no good stories about banding together to defeat an obstacle, no one I still talk to, no one I miss.

It all got thrown out in favor of convenience. Maybe that was necessary for sub numbers. Maybe it's why sub numbers failed. idk.

[ProfessorTjc]

Honestly, a lot of people have quit the game. I am pretty much only logging in to keep up to date but, don't really raid or anything. Running m+ dungeons 50 times a week is annoying and if you're not doing kt you're falling behind on AP no matter what others say. WoW needs to go back to a simpler time if they want the game to survive.

[The7]

Why do people, who don't feel the need for a guild, play this game? I am not saying they shouldn't, just don't quite understand. If it wasn't for the social ties and interactions I, personally, would've quit in WoTLK already. I don't see how the game has anything special to offer in contrast to most of the newer games out there (MMORPGs or simply RPGs).

If you can't enjoy a game without the presence of your friends on it, independent people who also play it because of other reasons are not the problem.

Social interactions you say? Like the hunter shouting "leroy" and pulling Gul'dan earl, locking people out because he doesn't want to wait for others? Or that one person killing Sha of Anger even though you asked in chat to wait a minute because you were on the way? Or maybe the raid leader's girlfriend who's useless in the group, but gets a pass because she has a pair of boobs. Yeah, those are just great.