Question: is wow population really low?

[Dizzeeyooo]

more? half of these totems = talent.. so some of them never used.. like 80% of them used to be baseline anyways.. also where is grounding(for enh and ele) where is tremor? where is healing stream for dps, where are all the buff totems? where is mana tide? mana spring? etc.

stop being silly and talking about totems that were never used while raiding, everyone knows those totems were mistakes from the moment they were introduced and using them made you a bad player who probably couldn't even join a raiding guild if you wanted to hehe

[Craaazyyy]

LOL wrong. We can tell who does not play Legion and just assumes things. The list of totems I provided you were from Elemental Shamans who you claim have none.

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Cool you must stand around idle as much as I do then. I have over 770 myself on one character and I alt tab plenty and stand around at the AH for many of those hours. What does that prove exactly though? You already said you didn't raid so you hit max level back in Vanilla-Mid MoP to do what exactly? Gather herbs and ore?

as ele for example BASELINE you have 1 totem, then you only have talents.. 3 out of totems you can have are on the same row.. some other talented totems are either never or rarely being used..

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stop being silly and talking about totems that were never used while raiding, everyone knows those totems were mistakes from the moment they were introduced and using them made you a bad player who probably couldn't even join a raiding guild if you wanted to hehe

im sad now

[Kyanion]

more? half of these totems = talent.. so some of them never used.. like 80% of them used to be baseline anyways.. also where is grounding(for enh and ele) where is tremor? where is healing stream for dps, where are all the buff totems? where is mana tide? mana spring? etc.

Ohhhh woah woah if some of them are 'never used' yet you are one of the people bitching about abilities that people didn't use long ago that got removed? The irony is...it is palpable.

I don't know, go ask Blizz about why they changed things around? Healing Stream for Dps was a shit totem to have anyways for most of the time. Grounding was a great talent sure but it just made people use addons to ping when one is down and throw out a dummy spell.

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stop being silly and talking about totems that were never used while raiding, everyone knows those totems were mistakes from the moment they were introduced and using them made you a bad player who probably couldn't even join a raiding guild if you wanted to hehe

I know I loved taking a dps loss to drop a healing stream totem that was fucking terrible.

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as ele for example BASELINE you have 1 totem, then you only have talents.. 3 out of totems you can have are on the same row.. some other talented totems are either never or rarely being used..

But you said they had none and I proved you incorrect. When called out on this you now move the goalposts to say 'never or rarely' or try and break down when and where some totems would get used. It is the same shit for older expansions where spells got phased out, removed or changed.

[Craaazyyy]

Ohhhh woah woah if some of them are 'never used' yet you are one of the people bitching about abilities that people didn't use long ago that got removed? The irony is...it is palpable.

I don't know, go ask Blizz about why they changed things around? Healing Stream for Dps was a shit totem to have anyways for most of the time. Grounding was a great talent sure but it just made people use addons to ping when one is down and throw out a dummy spell.

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I know I loved taking a dps loss to drop a healing stream totem that was fucking terrible.

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But you said they had none and I proved you incorrect. When called out on this you now move the goalposts to say 'never or rarely' or try and break down when and where some totems would get used. It is the same shit for older expansions where spells got phased out, removed or changed.

when did i say they should REMOVE THEM? make them better maybe.. move them to another row.. add them baseline etc.


ye, thats why ppl werent just using like retards wasting grounding.. they were trying to ground things literally the moment they were used.. thats what skill is all about.. same with shadow word death cc, same with melding cc etc.

[Cazmosis]

MMO Champ. Where a forum can generate 17+ pages of responses off a deeply flawed question by a confused OP.

[Dizzeeyooo]

MMO Champ. Where a forum can generate 17+ pages of responses off a deeply flawed question by a confused OP.

people care about this game for right or wrong, and people obviously have very different opinions about what is killing it, so its not really that surprising

[Craaazyyy]

Ohhhh woah woah if some of them are 'never used' yet you are one of the people bitching about abilities that people didn't use long ago that got removed? The irony is...it is palpable.

I don't know, go ask Blizz about why they changed things around? Healing Stream for Dps was a shit totem to have anyways for most of the time. Grounding was a great talent sure but it just made people use addons to ping when one is down and throw out a dummy spell.

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I know I loved taking a dps loss to drop a healing stream totem that was fucking terrible.

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But you said they had none and I proved you incorrect. When called out on this you now move the goalposts to say 'never or rarely' or try and break down when and where some totems would get used. It is the same shit for older expansions where spells got phased out, removed or changed.

previous expansion? sure abiliti0es were getting changed, some removed.. but alot of new ones were being added.. you know that right now we have LESS abilities than we had in wrath.. but we have 2 MORE classes

[Kyanion]

previous expansion? sure abiliti0es were getting changed, some removed.. but alot of new ones were being added.. you know that right now we have LESS abilities than we had in wrath.. but we have 2 MORE classes

I haven't done an itemized breakdown of my wrath spells as a balance druid compared to now. I imagine I lost some things because you can only focus on one of the other forms which is a bit silly. So sure I lost cat abilities if I'm specced for bear. I have plenty of spells to use as a balance druid and I feel my rotation is pretty complex when you bring legendaries into the equation. I can't speak too much on other specs but I have to imagine some have improved over the years as well as some getting worse/not as fun.

An old saying is more isn't always better. Who cares if I had 30 spells if 15 of them were rarely used or sucked and going down to 20 made my enjoyment of my class go up.

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MMO Champ. Where a forum can generate 17+ pages of responses off a deeply flawed question by a confused OP.

You must have missed some of the 90+ page threads with a deeply flawed question by an OP with an agenda.

[Craaazyyy]

I haven't done an itemized breakdown of my wrath spells as a balance druid compared to now. I imagine I lost some things because you can only focus on one of the other forms which is a bit silly. So sure I lost cat abilities if I'm specced for bear. I have plenty of spells to use as a balance druid and I feel my rotation is pretty complex when you bring legendaries into the equation. I can't speak too much on other specs but I have to imagine some have improved over the years as well as some getting worse/not as fun.

An old saying is more isn't always better. Who cares if I had 30 spells if 15 of them were rarely used or sucked and going down to 20 made my enjoyment of my class go up.

again i feel like you literally cant read.. if you werent using them it doesnt mean that everyone else wasnt using them.. for example all the abilities in different forms for druids were actually being used by players who knew how to use them.. like good resto druids were always doing damage in cat form(and turst me in wrath for example it was alot of damage)

[Kyanion]

again i feel like you literally cant read.. if you werent using them it doesnt mean that everyone else wasnt using them.. for example all the abilities in different forms for druids were actually being used by players who knew how to used them.. like good resto druids were always doing damage in cat form(and turst me in wrath for example it was alot of damage)

And the same could be said to you when you broke down the Legion elemental shaman totems. Some people use them and some don't? And good resto druids still have that option if they want to dps during down periods when they aren't healing.

Blizz made the choices to remove rarely used abilities, not me. I think it was a good choice and you don't. Simple as that.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Blizz made the choices to remove rarely used abilities, not me

replace "rarely used" with "not used while raiding", and correct

I think it was a good choice and you don't. Simple as that.

absolutely 100% correct

[Kyanion]

replace "rarely used" with "not used while raiding", and correct

I mean it could be "not used while pvping" or "not used during open world content" or "not used while raiding". Same shit. Some spells weren't used in some situations. Some spells just rarely got used in any type of content. It happens.

Also, sometimes it is the wrong situation to use a spell and that would make casuals do worse, so to help casuals maybe some changes were made to help them? I don't know.

[Craaazyyy]

And the same could be said to you when you broke down the Legion elemental shaman totems. Some people use them and some don't? And good resto druids still have that option if they want to dps during down periods when they aren't healing.

Blizz made the choices to remove rarely used abilities, not me. I think it was a good choice and you don't. Simple as that.

again its 4 TOTEMS AT MOST.. 4.. only one is baseline..

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I mean it could be "not used while pvping" or "not used during open world content" or "not used while raiding". Same shit. Some spells weren't used in some situations. Some spells just rarely got used in any type of content. It happens.

then whats the reason for removing abilities that were being used all damn time? like deep freeze? shadowflame? warlock curses? and eye of kilrogg is still in the game..

[Kyanion]

again its 4 TOTEMS AT MOST.. 4.. only one is baseline..

And didn't you say elemental had NONE? 4 > 0. Also depending on how you spec for PvE and PvP I think it could be more than that. Either way, you said 0 bud.

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then whats the reason for removing abilities that were being used all damn time? like deep freeze? shadowflame? warlock curses? and eye of kilrogg is still in the game..

Do I look like Blizz? Go ask them why they removed certain spells and kept others.

[Relapses]

people care about this game for right or wrong, and people obviously have very different opinions about what is killing it, so its not really that surprising

It's not dying. The only reason this thread is generating any amount of traction is because players want to get on a soapbox and use shitty, awful logic to support an equally shitty and awful opinion about whatever completely arbitrary random fucking thing they're sure has "caused the game to die."

[Kyanion]

It's not dying. The only reason this thread is generating any amount of traction is because players want to get on a soapbox and use shitty, awful logic to support an equally shitty and awful opinion about whatever completely arbitrary random fucking thing they're sure has "caused the game to die."

Remember, it is only dying if it is below X amount of subs. Otherwise it is fine. Apparently if it goes under 10 million it is dead as hell.

[Ishayu]

What? Heroic Anub had 2500ish kills on 25 man. It had 36000 on 10 man, but 10 man ToC was a joke and Sinestra was a fairly difficult boss for a first tier of a raid. Why not use something else from the xpac like zero light yogg? There were 1500 of those. 10 man raiding was definitely not considered the hardest content by a long stretch.

Sure, you can pick and choose certain fights to fit your narrative but I'm talking about looking at the numbers as a whole.

Do you actually communicate with everyone who lives within your city? Of course not. You community with a very few amount but people you communicate with communicate with others and it's just a network that essentially works together. Just because you don't become friends with the people who work at your local supermarket doesn't mean you aren't part of the same community. Just because you don't talk to or become friends with the people in your random group doesn't mean you aren't part of the same community.

Those numbers are utterly wrong. It was about 20 times as many guilds. But there were more people playing in general.

I don't know where you're getting those numbers from.

We can also pick Naxxramas from vanilla. An infamously "hard to see" patch. 2% of the playerbase got through a good chunk of it. That's ~5000 40 man guilds, aka. around 200,000 players. That was literally the worst case scenario - subsequent raids were much more accessible except maybe Sunwell.

But actually, this is all completely besides the point. The point is not for everybody to see everything - the point is precisely the opposite. Few should get to complete it all, most should be somewhere along the progression curve. The point is making the overall number of players go up, not make a larger percentage kill the last boss.

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So basically you advocate for removing many QoL changes, dumbing down of classes, removal of LFR/LFD and what else? Not that it would ever happen but I am curious what it devolve into so you'd be happy with WoW again.

I haven't argued for dumbing down classes. But yeah, the rest is pretty much accurate. What you call "QoL changes" are actually changes to the fundamental social structure that makes the game an MMORPG, and which consequently destroy it.

And honestly, if you don't understand why LFD/LFR is more than just QoL already, you'll never understand it. There is no point in me trying to explain it to you. But, if you're really curious, try googling.

[Mitak]

For me what made WOW less interesting through the years is the change from an RPG game to a modernized (competitive) MMO-RPG game that has to have everything perfectly balanced, or strive to do so. Everything is about numbers and balance. Gone are the old talent trees which were cumbersome but way more old school RPG-ish, and came the time of the new talent buttons, for better balance and ease of use!
Gone are the ultra dark nights, the heavy rains, blizzards to a accommodate more tolerable weather and day/day cycle so everyone can feel the same whenever they play..
Gone are the days when alliance had paladins and horde had shamans instead.

The real WoW players that made up the great WoW community which ppl seem to reminisce about loved the game for what it was. It is not about removing the LFR/ LFD and reverting wow to the days of typing for 30 minutes in chat to get a dungeon group running. It is about WoW moving from the old loveable MMO RPG game to a newschool MMO- RPG where balance and mechanics are the kings and the RPG takes third place , maybe forth.

[Akka]

If you're trying to get a number for a population size, you don't use statistics...... The irony.

Fuck, people should just never speak of statistics. The ignorance is just too annoying.

[Deleted]

I play a LOT and there are still multiple groups for eveything I want to do at any given time, even 4:30am on EU if so be it, wow population is fine and I've never loved the game as much as there is with so many things to do for my alts