Trump Arms Kurds despite Turkey's Anger

[Deleted]

Would you mind sourcing a few of those crimes the Kurds supposedly committed?

Because, you know...

It's the freaking middle east, there's only brutal socities.

Pick the least worst is better than siding with Saudis though..

[Flarelaine]

The Kurds seem to be the only mentally stable people in the Middle East except for the Israelis. I would love to see them create their own country. They even let women fight.

The best move against ISIS ever. Apparently they have their man card revoked and are not entitled to virgins in Heaven - or to Heaven in the first place, I'm not sure - if they are killed by women.

[Magical Mudcrab]

Erdogan is one of the biggest problems in the region.

Erdogan is one of the biggest problems facing NATO, period. Not because Turkey is a threat to anyone, but because they've been able to abuse their position. He's not been confronted on anything because of Turkey's strategic placement as an easily accessible gateway to the middle east for the US and Europe, so now he feels justified in any action he takes. The arming of the Kurds will likely lead to some armed conflict between Turkish and Russian forces, and will further exacerbate political tensions between NATO and RU.

[caervek]

Erdogan is one of the biggest problems facing NATO, period. Not because Turkey is a threat to anyone, but because they've been able to abuse their position. He's not been confronted on anything because of Turkey's strategic placement as an easily accessible gateway to the middle east for the US and Europe, so now he feels justified in any action he takes.

He needs to be careful though, there is a point at which continued cooperation with Turkey becomes more expensive politically than simply liberating the Turkish occupied part of Cyprus and using Cyprus as the NATO base in the area again (something the Cypriots would welcome).

[Rasulis]

Could the Kurds turn on the US later? There is always that chance. If they did, for once the US deserved it. In 1972, Kurds in Iraq, Syria, Turkey, and Iran were seriously involved in attempts to obtain at least some basic human rights. Iraq at that time had already developed a very friendly relationship with the former USSR. As a result, a tripartite plan was formed between the US, Iran, and Israel. In this plan, the Kurds were given adequate support to keep make Baghdad busy and take its energy.

Unfortunately for the Kurds, during an OPEC meeting in 1975, Saddam and the last Shah of Iran agreed to settle their differences and signed a treaty of friendship, known as the Algiers Agreement. In this treaty Iraq formally conceded to Iranian territorial demands in return for the Shah terminating support for the Iraqi Kurdish rebels. Dr. Kissinger approved this agreement that marked the end of Kurdish autonomy in Iraq.

Shortly after the withdrawal of American help, a reign of terror began in all of the countries where the Kurds lived, but the worst was carried out in Iraq, resulting in the systematic killing and genocide of hundreds of thousands of civilians. Dr. Kissinger even denied the Kurdish request for humanitarian help from the US. In his own words “covert action should not be confused with missionary work.”

The question again is then “Could the Kurds turn against the US later?”

They could, but it seems unlikely for several reasons.

The Kurds claimed that no member of the coalition forces and foreigners in Kurdistan have been kidnaped or murdered. Strong claim, yet it has not been refuted.

Many former US militaries came back to work with the Kurds after they finished their terms of service. NPR interviewed quite a few of them. You can find out for yourself what they think about the Kurds.

Israel is in support of an independent Kurdistan.

[Deleted]

He needs to be careful though, there is a point at which continued cooperation with Turkey becomes more expensive politically than simply liberating the Turkish occupied part of Cyprus and using Cyprus as the NATO base in the area again (something the Cypriots would welcome).

If you try that, Turkey will invoke Art.5 and bring ruin to whoever fails to uphold the treaty's obligations by coming to the defence of Turkey.

[Deleted]

The Kurds are the most tolerant tribe in the Middle East. They are pro west and have been friends of western nations for centuries and they are pro freedom of religion (they practice many different ones). Also they don't treat their women like cattle.

We should be backing them more.

Were did I hear that before. (Pics misleading it was the Afghan Mujahideen, the taliban are what survived the civil war after the Russians left)


oh yeah, the same thing was said about the Afghan Mujahideen. Who later transformed, a secular Afghan state into a Religious hellhole, they then transformed into the Taliban, with whatever did not join them forming groups like AQ.

[Deleted]

Having been an avid lurker on these forums for a long time, seeing this thread has forced me to finally register.
The sheer amount of ignorance and prejudice by some posters towards the Kurds is astounding.
As a whole they are by far the most friendly people I have encountered, and certainly one of the most progressive as well.
A couple of comments:
1) Some Kurds took advantage by what happened during the Armenian genocide yes, however they were being persecuted as well. Others aided and hid Armenians in their home.
2) The Kurds are absolutely not comparable to the Taliban (you were kidding, right?)
3) "The Kurds are not native to Anatolia" - while technically true, they have lived in those lands for a very long time while being severely opressed by all sorts of regimes.

[Deleted]

I believe the Kurds should have their own country. And north syria with north iraq would be the best chance.

[caervek]

If you try that, Turkey will invoke Art.5 and bring ruin to whoever fails to uphold the treaty's obligations by coming to the defence of Turkey.

Yeah, I can really see NATO countries attacking the USA and co in the defence of Turkey

[Nathreim]

Were did I hear that before. (Pics misleading it was the Afghan Mujahideen, the taliban are what survived the civil war after the Russians left)


oh yeah, the same thing was said about the Afghan Mujahideen. Who later transformed, a secular Afghan state into a Religious hellhole, they then transformed into the Taliban, with whatever did not join them forming groups like AQ.

You saying all middle eastern people are terrorists? Cause thats racist as shit.

The Kurds are not the Mujahideen they are not expansionist like them and they don't have a goal of dominating the world with Islam.

They want their lands and culture to be recognized by Turkey. Iraq and Iran already have and enjoy peace with the Kurds. Turkey just wants to destroy them.

[Rennadrel]

Turkey's government is in no position to be bitching about what other countries are doing, considering what their current regime is guilty of.

[Deleted]

Were did I hear that before. (Pics misleading it was the Afghan Mujahideen, the taliban are what survived the civil war after the Russians left)


oh yeah, the same thing was said about the Afghan Mujahideen. Who later transformed, a secular Afghan state into a Religious hellhole, they then transformed into the Taliban, with whatever did not join them forming groups like AQ.

http://www.snopes.com/ronald-reagan-taliban-photo/

The salient details... those damn, nasty little things. Just when we found a really good soundbite, and bamm, its ruined.

[Deleted]

You saying all middle eastern people are terrorists? Cause thats racist as shit.

Oh are we already invoking the "you a racist card"? Seriously, I never said anything like that and you know it.

The Kurds are not the Mujahideen they are not expansionist like them and they don't have a goal of dominating the world with Islam.

Of course they are not the Afghan Mujahideen. They are a completely different danger. When was the last time a US backed a group in the ME that it did not turn into a shitfest? Did you learn nothing from history or recent events? Remember the whole "Secular Syrian Rebel" that the US was pushing until recently?

They want their lands and culture to be recognized by Turkey. Iraq and Iran already have and enjoy peace with the Kurds. Turkey just wants to destroy them.

Iraq is enjoying peace with the Kurds, because the US invasion and the more recent ISIS invasion screwed them over so badly that a bad breeze can send the whole place falling down. Give it a few years and they will respond to the Kurds, like they always did.

Iran, is friendly with everyone, who is not supporting Arab terrorists. They also have a Kurdish community. But if you think they will allow them to break away and form a Kurdistan that is not under their influence. All I got to say is lol.

Turkey. Lots of bad blood between the Turks and Kurds. Dont care who started it, dont trust either side and lets be honest. Both of them are hardly standing on any moral high ground.

But I think you misunderstand what I am saying. I am not saying they should not have a Country or anything like that. What I am saying is that we should not get involved in some Tribal fight that does not concern us at all.

http://www.snopes.com/ronald-reagan-taliban-photo/

The salient details... those damn, nasty little things. Just when we found a really good soundbite, and bamm, its ruined.

my mistake he was talking about the Contra rebels. But my point still stand that the US armed the Afghan Rebels and it did not end well.

The quote frequently attached to this photo is indeed a paraphrased version of something said by President Reagan, but he was not speaking about either the Taliban or Afghan opposition groups at the time. He made the comment about contra rebels in Nicaragua during a speech at the Conservative Political Action Conference in 1985:

[Deleted]

Below i , after many hours of thinking and deliberating, have formulated my response to this article.

Ahem,..


FUCK TURKEY


Have a nice day gents, go kurds!

I mean honestly beehrdogan has gone full dictator, just let the guy shout and rave his idiotics and lets work around him

[Deleted]

Think about all 'bad' things Kurds did, then go back in time 100 or 200 years and think about all 'bad' things some mostly southern/eastern European nations did, compare narrations held against their sovereignty from that time, compare it after they got their own countries many years later in spite to 'neighbours' being smarter trying to held them back from sovereignity...

[Flacko]

Below i , after many hours of thinking and deliberating, have formulated my response to this article.

Ahem,..


FUCK TURKEY


Have a nice day gents, go kurds!

I mean honestly beehrdogan has gone full dictator, just let the guy shout and rave his idiotics and lets work around him

ahahha a dutch, who is writing "Fuck Turkey"

[Deleted]

ahahha a dutch, who is writing "Fuck Turkey"

Ahahaha a turk, who is upset.

There's a novelty. The only thing that surpasses the anger of the turks these days is their ignorance.

Better turn on the erdogan-channel so it can tell you how to feel today. (hint: it's upset/angry)

[Deleted]

Of course they are not the Afghan Mujahideen. They are a completely different danger. When was the last time a US backed a group in the ME that it did not turn into a shitfest? Did you learn nothing from history or recent events? Remember the whole "Secular Syrian Rebel" that the US was pushing until recently?

Well. Last time for the US backing up a group... Israel? Of course, there are problems with that too, but to reflect to your claim, if you dont stop just at the recent events, but try to observe a bigger timescale: there were always a shitfest there. No matter what you do, no matter if you dont do anything, things will somehow turn into a shitfest. And currently it will be the US's fault.
As for the whole "moderate rebels" thingy, it was a clusterfuck from the start. Sometimes it seems to me, as the US actively tried to find a group who are not the kurds to support, and at the end, they ended up with the kurds. Amazing.

But I think you misunderstand what I am saying. I am not saying they should not have a Country or anything like that. What I am saying is that we should not get involved in some Tribal fight that does not concern us at all.

Respectable opinion. Of course, what you did not factored in: at the end (or maybe a little bit sooner) it will concern you. The vacuum you leave would be filled and the results would be not necessary bright.
And, should the US chose to not involve herself in anyway, the results would be still her fault! Thats the beauty of it. For example because of something similar like the following:

my mistake he was talking about the Contra rebels. But my point still stand that the US armed the Afghan Rebels and it did not end well.

Lets just put away the whole contra affair and the general american continent, well, meddling, just lets get stay focused on Afghanistan - and keep things simple, because the complexity of the things could be described as Lord palmerston did with the Schleswig question (you know: “The Schleswig-Holstein question is so complicated, only three men in Europe have ever understood it. One was Prince Albert, who is dead. The second was a German professor who became mad. I am the third and I have forgotten all about it.” )

So, the US arming the rebels did not end well? Why? Mostly, because they cut that support, during a civil war between the Northern Alliance and the Taliban - whom had outside support.
Now it could be presented, as if the US "created" the Taliban and the AQ, while its not the case. Their inactivity led to the rise of the Taliban, not their support.

[Khaza-R]

Turkey complaining about the US arming "terrorist" Kurds while Turkey itself armed militant Jihadists like al-Nusra and Ahrar al-Sham against the Syrian people...

It's like the Turkish people have zero sense of hypocrisy or moral dignity