1. #1141
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA, Ohio
    Posts
    24,112
    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Your claim is that the information is not classified prior to Trump passing it to the Russians so you should have no problem finding that information prior to that. Second it is within his right to release the information that is not the question, the problem is the manner and the wisdom of doing so to Russia. Honestly if you don't think Trump did anything wrong note I said wrong not illegal then you have blind devotion to him.

    He is putting sources at risk and our partners around the globe will not be too keen on sharing information with us due to this. It is painfully obvious why for example Israelis intelligence would not want to share information when it could be given to a friend of Iran.
    I will let the intelligence authorities working on the classified info to come to that conclusion. Not some news papers or people who hate Trump.

  2. #1142
    Quote Originally Posted by Sauronxyz View Post
    True or not I just have to say, this forum is filled with a bunch of sore loser pussies. NOTHING Trump does will ever satisfy you clowns. The amount of threads on this site bashing Trump is just ridiculous as it is sad. Even the mods have joined in. Trump could find the cure for cancer and not one of you will give him credit. It's like you losers spend your days waiting for some new story where trump slipped up just to join in the circle jerk that is MMO Champion. I hope he goes on for a second term just to see you clowns foam at the mouth. Go ahead and ban me mods. This site is a fucking joke.
    Walk it off champ you'll be okay.

    And you are correct. There is legitimately nothing Trump can do. His _conduct_ made himself illegitimate. And we want him gone.

    And you know who has been the best help in that effort? Donald J Trump.

  3. #1143
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NY, USA
    Posts
    40,015
    Hey, kids! It's Michael Hayden!

    http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/16/politi...sis/index.html

    Why the latest White House crisis is a really big deal

    Donald Trump's latest crisis -- over his reported disclosure of highly classified information to Russia -- is giving voice to a question whispered privately in Washington during weeks of political turmoil: Is the President up to the job?

    "This isn't really about the power of the President. He has the power to do this," former CIA Director Michael Hayden said on "CNN Tonight" Monday. "This is more about the person of the President and the performance."

    The new storm engulfing an already beleaguered White House is so potentially damaging because it stretches far beyond the simple personal standing and reputation of the President.

    The rumpus, first reported by The Washington Post, has national security, intelligence and international implications that White House attempts to knock down the story on Monday night conspicuously failed to address. It's even possible that lives could be at risk, considering that the information Trump reportedly shared was related to an ISIS terror plot against civil aviation -- currently the most urgent terrorist threat to the United States -- and emanated from a sensitive intelligence sharing agreement with a foreign agency.

    Once again, the credibility of the White House political operation and the efforts of its communications operation to keep up with an inexperienced President's chaotic leadership style are on the line.

    "We are seeing the results of him being a bit undisciplined, impulsive, instinctive and intuitive, little patience for preparation and little patience for process," said Hayden. "When he goes off script like this (it is) ultimately destructive of his own purposes."

    Here's why:

    1. The competence question

    There are few commodities as important to presidents as a reputation for competence. Once public confidence in a commander-in-chief's capacity to do his job wanes, their political decline can be brutally swift, as President George W. Bush and Jimmy Carter could attest.

    That's why this story may end up being so damaging to Trump.

    Earlier uproars that buffeted the White House, over the President's inflammatory tweets and a litany of falsehoods over his inaugural crowd size, could be put down to Trump's idiosyncratic freewheeling style. Critics saw his firing of FBI Director James Comey as evidence of more worrying autocratic instincts.

    But the report that Trump shared top secret information about an ISIS terror plot with Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov and Ambassador Sergey Kislyak in the Oval Office last Wednesday -- the morning after the Comey firing -- poses a more searching question about whether the President can be trusted with the gravest responsibilities that come with his office and whether he understands the implications of discussing America's most carefully guarded secrets with a US adversary.

    As those questions rattled through Washington Monday night, the White House was in a bunker mentality. And even allies who have been supportive of the administration so far are now casting huge doubt on its credibility.

    "They are in a downward spiral right now and have got to figure out a way to come to grips with all that's happening," said Republican Sen. Bob Corker, who is viewed as a sober and restrained influencer on Capitol Hill.

    "The chaos that is being created by the lack of discipline is creating an environment that I think — it creates a worrisome environment," Corker said.

    There is not much doubt that of all the dramas that have battered this administration, the new Russia intelligence saga is the most dramatic. Alan Dershowitz, professor emeritus at Harvard University, said Trump is safe from criminal prosecution or impeachment because a President has the power to declassify intelligence.

    But he offered a stunning assessment of the gravity of the situation.

    "This is the most serious charge ever made against a sitting president of the United States. Let's not underestimate it," he told CNN's Erin Burnett.

    But Trump hit back early Tuesday, implicitly dismissing arguments about his competence by arguing that he had made a strategic decision to share intelligence with his Oval Office guests.

    "As President I wanted to share with Russia (at an openly scheduled W.H. meeting) which I have the absolute right to do, facts pertaining to terrorism and airline flight safety. Humanitarian reasons, plus I want Russia to greatly step up their fight against ISIS & terrorism," Trump wrote on Twitter.

    Former CIA Director Leon Panetta, however, told CNN's "New Day" that a lack of discipline by the President was causing him to make rash decisions.

    "The President of the United States cannot just do or say or speak whatever the hell he wants. That's just irresponsible. So you need to have some people that sit down with the President before he goes into a meeting and say these are the lines you cannot cross because it relates to the security of our country," Panetta said.

    2. The Intelligence angle

    There have already been several reports that allied intelligence agencies, fearful of the administration's capacity to guard the most sensitive secrets, have been wary about sharing top secret information with the United States.

    Those concerns are now likely to multiply.

    The Washington Post said in its report, major details of which were confirmed by CNN, that Trump had told the Russians about information provided by a US partner agency in an intelligence-sharing agreement that was so sensitive details were withheld from allies and restricted even within the US government. The consequences of that could hardly be more serious, former CIA case officer Bob Baer told Burnett.

    "The President, by revealing this to the Russians, has lost control of this information. It's going to go to the Syrians, It's going to go to the Iranians — Russian allies," Baer said. "The ability to protect that source whoever he is, wherever he is has been seriously undermined ... If a CIA officer had revealed this information to the Russians, he would be fired instantly."

    The White House on Monday blasted the reports as "false." National Security Adviser H.R. McMaster said that Trump did not compromise any sources and methods.

    But while the identity of the country that provided the US with the information is not publicly known, it is unlikely to be too hard for the Russians, with their highly sophisticated intelligence agencies, to work out where it came from. That leaves open the possibility that vital intelligence, key to protecting American lives, may not be available to US clandestine services in future.

    Lawmakers and intelligence officials are already warning that disclosing this type of information could harm US efforts to counter an ISIS plot to place explosives in laptops and other electronic devices to evade airport security.

    3. The political hit

    One reason why Trump is so politically vulnerable to Monday's reports is that he anchored much of his campaign on lambasting Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton over her handling of classified information.

    But now he appears to have acted in way that is just as much, if not more, injurious to American secrets as Clinton's private email scheme, exposing him to accusations of hypocrisy.

    Republicans meanwhile are getting strung out by the constant chaos raging around the Trump presidency — and that they are constantly forced to address, to the detriment of their once-in-a-generation chance to use Republican majorities on Capitol Hill to enact a conservative agenda.

    Republican Sen. Susan Collins of Maine said sardonically Monday: "Can we have a crisis-free day? That's all I'm asking."

    The big unknown for the White House is whether the latest Trump-triggered crisis is so significant that it wreaks political damage of greater magnitude than he has so far experienced.

    It could be that the latest drama is so explosive that it opens up space between the administration and Republican leaders who have so far stood firm behind Trump. House Speaker Paul Ryan notably put out a statement seeking more information on Monday's development, but did not rush to back the President. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell kept his own counsel.

    It's probably still too early to assess how the constant controversies impact Republican prospects heading into the 2018 midterm elections. But as the political calendar grinds through summer, vulnerable lawmakers may begin thinking of their own skins more than the fate of the Trump administration.

    That point may not be here yet, but it will not be far off if things keep going badly for the White House.

    The fast moving developments of Monday night into Tuesday also again called into question the credibility of the White House -- which was already compromised by its shifting explanations for the firing of Comey. Both McMaster and his deputy, Dina Powell, used the word "false" to describe the Post's reporting. Yet Trump's tweets appeared to validate at least parts of the story.

    4. The Russia question

    If suspicion was rampant in Washington about the President's links to Russia before, it is going to go into overdrive now.

    Already the pictures of Lavrov and Kislyak yukking it up with Trump pointed to a political gaffe by the White House. Now, Democrats are using Trump's apparent intelligence lapse to renew calls for a special prosecutor to probe allegations of Russian election-meddling and possible collusion with the Trump campaign — and to hike pressure on Republicans on the issue.

    "What we know is that it is a very, very serious threat to our national security and safety, and that's why my hope is that Republicans and Democrats will come together in favor of an independent investigation through a special prosecutor and through an independent commission," Connecticut Democratic Sen. Richard Blumenthal said Monday on CNN.

    "Make no mistake: this kind of serious grave threat really requires a national response, putting country above politics."

    At the very least, Monday's bombshell will renew intense curiosity about why Trump, unlike almost everyone else in Washington, does not seem to be as wary of Russia and its motives.

    "It's the Russians -- we have been going through all this stuff," CNN senior political analyst David Gergen said. "Why is he giving information to the Russians of all people?"

    5. The international angle

    Monday's explosive disclosures erupted at a time when the President is preparing to take his first steps on the world stage. He will leave Friday for a trip to Saudi Arabia, Israel, Italy and Belgium.

    That was always going to be an onerous test to such an inexperienced commander-in-chief. Now, Trump will be under even more intense pressure to counter perceptions abroad that he is out of his depth in the Oval Office and to reassure foreign leaders that America remains a force in the world under his leadership and can be relied upon to keep allies' secrets.

    It is not just the reputation of the President himself that is on the line. The credibility of the United States, the most powerful nation in the world and the guarantor of Western security, is being publicly eroded.

    Ultimately, it comes down to Trump himself and his attitude toward his job.

    "He is very inexperienced, this is an absolutely new world to him," Hayden said. "If I fault him for anything, it's not that he's inexperienced -- he doesn't have humility in the face of his inexperience."
    Emphasis mine with regards to AP info.

    Trump has gone from "There is no collusion between me and the Russians" to "I gave the Russians classified info and that was okay" in under 24 hours.

    I also want to add a couple things:

    A) Throwing this back at Clinton is not just Whataboutism, not just "But her emaaaaaaaaaaails", not just stomping your feet and clenching your fists and screwing your eyes shut and denying that you backed a loser, it's also a false parallel. Clinton and her staffers used a server that might have had classified information that might have been stolen maybe. Trump flat-out handed the information directly to Russia while shaking his hands on Russian cameras, shaking his hand, and smiling, then admitted he did it.

    B) Some people are pointing out that McMaster, a stand-up guy, refutes this...kinda. I've already pointed out how the WH refutal (before Trump flat-out contradicted it) didn't really refute the claims. But, just to further this point: it took McMaster two tries. When asked for comment by reporters the first time, McMaster fled. He didn't hide in the dark behind hedges, but he did basically say "fuck this" and ran away. Then he hid in the White House, probably to find out which spin they were collectively putting on this. Then he gave his statement. If reporters were to ask me about something I knew for a fact was a bold-faced lie -- "Professor Breccia, in that last class you sat in on, did the head of the Math Department really say square roots don't exist?" -- I wouldn't flee from reporters, I would slap that shit down -- "No, he didn't, and also that's retarded".

  4. #1144
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by Uzkin View Post
    Actually, the generals in question are contradicting the president of the United States. The latter has much more say in defining the US relationship with Russia. These generals just need some imaginary enemy to justify the huuuuge US military budget.
    You do know that we have an enemy without a nation, that excuse US to go anywhere we want? Why does US need Russia to spend the defense budget in, when we have terrorism to blame everything on. While Trump is scaring everyone with terrorism, you think Russia is needed to justify a military budget? WTF? You do realize that Trump's budget included a segnificant boost to military, without him agreeing that Russia is a threat? Your conspiracy theory makes 0 sense...
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  5. #1145
    Quote Originally Posted by Shalcker View Post
    Can you please quote relevant paragraph from primary media source on this?
    https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/u...T.nav=top-news

    "In fact, the current official said that Mr. Trump shared granular details of the intelligence with the Russians. Among the details the president shared was the city in Syria where the ally picked up information about the plot, "

    They have their own separate source.

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.68dddba805c0

    "Most alarmingly, officials said, Trump revealed the city in the Islamic State’s territory where the U.S. intelligence partner detected the threat."

    It happened.
    While you live, shine / Have no grief at all / Life exists only for a short while / And time demands its toll.

  6. #1146
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Myz View Post
    You can't blame visitors here that there are 20 newsworthy debacles by Trump/day.
    I can, not everything needs to be plastered on these boards just because it turned into some "anti trump" echo chamber.
    Its really not that interesting.

  7. #1147
    Quote Originally Posted by Lebanese Dude View Post
    Lol always making it something between liberals and conservatives. It's like you're not American.
    Hey, let the trumpettes speak! Its hella funny
    Forgive my english, as i'm not a native speaker



  8. #1148
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    15,964
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWalkinDude View Post
    Think about this. The left is clsiming a crime was committed here. What crime? The left continually claims Trump colluded with Russia and intentionally misconstrue the FBI investigation on Russian interference with an investigation into Trump. No evidence to support any of this, but you'll howl at the wind it's true. You're no different than the crazy guy on the corner yelling about God's wrath.
    Strawman, no one is claiming he committed a crime, he just compromised a deep cover agent in ISIS that's probably working for Israel or Jordan. If you think any of our allies will be just as open and forthright with information that will protect Americans in the future when our own president just outed a deep cover agent, you are delusional.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  9. #1149
    Void Lord Felya's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    the other
    Posts
    58,334
    Quote Originally Posted by HeyGuysHello View Post
    Trey Gowdy felt the information the FBI provided didn't threaten national/military security. If he had done so, she would be locked up right now. Then again, the emails I read didn't have anything to make me believe she was threatening either, so I have to agree that it was his best decision for the case.
    Then why are you responding to me, instead of the guy I am responding to? You are permitted to disagree with Trump supporters.
    Folly and fakery have always been with us... but it has never before been as dangerous as it is now, never in history have we been able to afford it less. - Isaac Asimov
    Every damn thing you do in this life, you pay for. - Edith Piaf
    The party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command. - Orwell
    No amount of belief makes something a fact. - James Randi

  10. #1150
    Bloodsail Admiral Kalador's Avatar
    7+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Montreal
    Posts
    1,094
    Quote Originally Posted by Hammerfest View Post
    Mark Dice weighs in...
    Mark Dice, ahahahahahahahaha, seriously tho, ahahahhahahahaha...

  11. #1151
    The Insane Daelak's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Nashville, TN
    Posts
    15,964
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    I will let the intelligence authorities working on the classified info to come to that conclusion. Not some news papers or people who hate Trump.
    They already did and told the press that they are now dealing with the inevitable fallout of the president outing a deep cover agent in Syria from either Jordan or Israel. MAGA right.
    Quote Originally Posted by zenkai View Post
    There is a problem, but I know just banning guns will fix the problem.

  12. #1152
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7738891.html

    More American support impeaching President Donald Trump than oppose it, a new poll shows.

    The poll, the Democratic polling company Public Policy Polling, found that 48 per cent supported such a move, while 41 per cent opposed it.

  13. #1153
    Void Lord Breccia's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    NY, USA
    Posts
    40,015
    Quote Originally Posted by Gilrak View Post
    So you guys really dont care about your allies losing trust in your country?
    To be fair, they'd already lost trust. Now, they're just openly saying they're going to act on that lack of trust.

    There is a difference between "I don't like my colleague but we have to work together anyhow" to "Mike in Accounting was caught fudging the numbers to make other departments look bad, I'm turning my quarterly reports directly in to the boss."

  14. #1154
    Banned Hammerfest's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    United States of America
    Posts
    7,995
    Quote Originally Posted by Myz View Post
    There's no conspiracy...
    Riiiight...

  15. #1155
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    I will let the intelligence authorities working on the classified info to come to that conclusion. Not some news papers or people who hate Trump.
    /sigh

    Intelligence officials past and present, republicans and democrats are pretty much in agreement that how he did it was wrong. The intelligence officials who are defending Trump even they are saying the way he did it was wrong but keep defending orange cheetos.

  16. #1156
    The Unstoppable Force Ghostpanther's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    USA, Ohio
    Posts
    24,112
    Quote Originally Posted by Tinykong View Post
    Does it really matter if Trump declassifies active intelligence right before sharing it?

    Something not being technically against the law doesn't make it incredibly stupid and dangerous.
    I do not know what was declassified or even if it was. If he did, the part he declassified may have been good ( or at least some thought it was who are more qualified to make that determination than I am. ) if he wants help from the Russians in defeating ISIS.

  17. #1157
    Deleted
    Nothing to see here, just muricans being murica-- holy shit this is page 64 already?

    Your whole continent should consider like relationship counselling.. like.. in group therapy or something

  18. #1158
    Banned JohnBrown1917's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Location
    Обединени социалистически щати на Америка
    Posts
    28,394
    Quote Originally Posted by woozie21 View Post
    I can, not everything needs to be plastered on these boards just because it turned into some "anti trump" echo chamber.
    Its really not that interesting.
    Its no big deal that the US allies are losing trust in the US?

  19. #1159
    Banned Hammerfest's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Location
    United States of America
    Posts
    7,995
    Quote Originally Posted by Ghostpanther View Post
    It is because of who the conspiracy theory is about.
    Exactly. That appears to make all the difference.

  20. #1160
    The Insane Kujako's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    In the woods, doing what bears do.
    Posts
    17,987
    Quote Originally Posted by Freighter View Post
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...-a7738891.html

    More American support impeaching President Donald Trump than oppose it, a new poll shows.

    The poll, the Democratic polling company Public Policy Polling, found that 48 per cent supported such a move, while 41 per cent opposed it.
    But impeachment would take around four years, would have to reelect Trump first, before we could finish the impeachment process.
    It is by caffeine alone I set my mind in motion. It is by the beans of Java that thoughts acquire speed, the hands acquire shakes, the shakes become a warning.

    -Kujako-

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •