Was WotLK a better expansion than Mop?

[Sinitar]

Ask 100 people the same question and each of them will have their own opinion on what makes an expansion good. WoTLK will definitely win the popularity context because of undead theme and Arthas as the end boss, but it sorely lacks features compared to what MoP brought to the table. Everybody who played during WOTLK needs to get their rose tinted glasses off and realize that, outside of raiding, you literally had nothing to do out in the world outside of very unrewarding dailies. 3.2 brought the argent dailies, which were pretty fun on their own, but a lot of people whined and raged about the concept of mounted combat/vehicles(Remember the flame leviathan fiasco?) so that doesn't sound like something the community approved of.

Now comes the raiding scene. There was a huge, and I mean HUGE outcry in 3.0 about rehashed Naxxramas. Tears flowed freely on this very forum about how lazy, incompetent and unimaginative blizzard is. Then came Ulduar, which was a highly successful and engaging raiding tier where, once again, people who didn't raid had nothing to do but farm conquest badges and buy the tier pieces sold on the vendors(Remember that you could buy raiding tier sets with actual badges? another thing people crucified Cataclysm for).

3.2 brought one of the worst raids in Wow's History, trial of the grand crusader, followed by ICC which people had a love and hate relationship due to how long it lasted, and due to the limited attempts for HC bosses.

So, as you can see, WoTLK had a lot of things people blame the future expansions for: Rep grind, artificial roadblocks for raids(limited attempts), severe lack of content outside of raids, and so forth. Why do these elements never get mentioned in threads like these? How comes people conveniently forget the bad things about an expansion, but proceed to bash future expansions for features that WOTLK gave birth to?

In comparison with WOTLK, MoP had a lot of content available for everyone. You had daily quest hubs coming with small or major patches. You had the rather dull scenarios as an option to PvE outside raids/dungeons, you had the Isle of thunder/Timeless isle in addition to the previously named content. So, in terms of content, MoP wins hands down, but people love to hate it because "lol pandas"

[Dunderstudy]

I liked it because It was when I started and FoK's didn't feel like just a paper cut...=[

[Sigxy]

Ask 100 people the same question and each of them will have their own opinion on what makes an expansion good. WoTLK will definitely win the popularity context because of undead theme and Arthas as the end boss, but it sorely lacks features compared to what MoP brought to the table. Everybody who played during WOTLK needs to get their rose tinted glasses off and realize that, outside of raiding, you literally had nothing to do out in the world outside of very unrewarding dailies. 3.2 brought the argent dailies, which were pretty fun on their own, but a lot of people whined and raged about the concept of mounted combat/vehicles(Remember the flame leviathan fiasco?) so that doesn't sound like something the community approved of.

Now comes the raiding scene. There was a huge, and I mean HUGE outcry in 3.0 about rehashed Naxxramas. Tears flowed freely on this very forum about how lazy, incompetent and unimaginative blizzard is. Then came Ulduar, which was a highly successful and engaging raiding tier where, once again, people who didn't raid had nothing to do but farm conquest badges and buy the tier pieces sold on the vendors(Remember that you could buy raiding tier sets with actual badges? another thing people crucified Cataclysm for).

3.2 brought one of the worst raids in Wow's History, trial of the grand crusader, followed by ICC which people had a love and hate relationship due to how long it lasted, and due to the limited attempts for HC bosses.

So, as you can see, WoTLK had a lot of things people blame the future expansions for: Rep grind, artificial roadblocks for raids(limited attempts), severe lack of content outside of raids, and so forth. Why do these elements never get mentioned in threads like these? How comes people conveniently forget the bad things about an expansion, but proceed to bash future expansions for features that WOTLK gave birth to?

In comparison with WOTLK, MoP had a lot of content available for everyone. You had daily quest hubs coming with small or major patches. You had the rather dull scenarios as an option to PvE outside raids/dungeons, you had the Isle of thunder/Timeless isle in addition to the previously named content. So, in terms of content, MoP wins hands down, but people love to hate it because "lol pandas"

Yeah sure, MoP won with "content to do outside of raiding", that's fine. But... well, in my opinion: Story, theme, atmosphere, villains - those things helped to make it better than MoP (again, MY opinion.) In my case it also helped by the fact that I've played a Retribution Paladin since TBC and WotLK is the best expansion we've had and we didn't have to put up with Holy Power.

[traut]

MoP is from my PoV the best expansion content-wise. I really liked EVERY class design from MoP. Almost every class still had a high enough skill cap and the abilities weren't too pruned and also not too complex/many. PvP was also great: new arena/battlegrounds. I think we also can say that season 14/15 were one of the most balanced and fun seasons. (WotLK PvP was also great!)
Gearing was really fun tho (PvE & PvP -> Timeless Isle / not too much RNG). 5.4 lasted a little long but all patches were fun and brought a lot of content. Also MoP brought many new great mechanics to the game (RIP reforging), many great sets (just look at the Windfury Set).
I started playing a few days ago on a mop private server just to pvp again because I am not the biggest fan of legion-pvp.

WotLK: 6/10
Cata: 6.5/10
MoP: 9/10
WoD: 5/10
Legion: 7/10 (until now)

[Teri]

In comparison with WOTLK, MoP had a lot of content available for everyone. You had daily quest hubs coming with small or major patches. You had the rather dull scenarios as an option to PvE outside raids/dungeons, you had the Isle of thunder/Timeless isle in addition to the previously named content. So, in terms of content, MoP wins hands down, but people love to hate it because "lol pandas"

TBC and Wrath had daily hubs too, Quel'danas/Trial of the Crusade. Yes raiding was less accessible in Sunwell but they added 10 mans in Wotlk.

And optional challenges in Naxx/Sartharion/Ulduar. Now the ICC just took forever (over a year) so of course there was very little to do by then, Ruby Sanctum? least memorable raid ever.

I still stand by TBC being the best expansion as a whole from start to finish if you raided them with proper attunements etc. (my experience in a hardcore guild back then), it offered ZA and heroic dungeons for smaller groups as well, Kara was an ok entry raid too but the transition from 10 to 25 felt a bit weird...

Wotlk started fairly weak with naxx, and ToC 2-4 times a week wasn't very fun but at least had the Argent Tournament solo content, and Ulduar hard modes too. But once again had major graphic/sound/quest style improvements over TBC.

Now I did like Cata's 10 mans (dragon soul being the worst outside of Spine/Madness), and MoP was just too much of a random mish mash of enemies, I only did ToT for a month till I quit (not due to game content), but I loved the quest hub and raid from what I had seen of it.

Can't speak for SOO/Timeless Isle/Brawlers guild#1 or WoD as a whole so my view might be Biased...

[Shaede]

I ultimately vote for Wrath. However both are very even in my book. I believe Wrath had a great thing going with Wintergrasp and all around raid/dungeon content. However I feel it could've done a better job at utilizing the zones. I know that's easy to say looking back at it now because of how much we actively participate in each zone in today's iteration. MoP started this path I think with the daily questlines and world bosses. Also I agree Throne of Thunder was one of the best patches I've seen in this game.

[Aoyi]

It amazes me that after this many years people still feel like bashing an expansion just because it had Pandren. We have a game where there are cow people and blue characters with goat legs. Can you really say with a straight face that the expansion was less Warcraft because there was a Panda race? We have bird people, fish people, monkey people and a whole host of other races. Seriously, get over it.

That said, I think both expansions were great in slightly different ways. I think raiding was a bit better in Wrath, but I think the patch cycle wad better in MoP. Both suffered from the follow up expansions taking libger than expected to come out. Wrath had the advantage of Ruby Sanctum breaking it up a bit, but it was really a dissapointing raid. MoP had the Timeless Isle, but that novelty wore off quickly too. One big advantage MoP brought for me was the brawlers guild. I loved the idea of a solo challenge. Something that depending on my skill to complete.

[Schattenlied]

Yes, MoP was much better, without question.

I guess I am right now, hm?

I listed a reason, you didn't, quit being obtuse.

[Gaidax]

IMO, MoP was better. Why? It stood on its own legs lorewise. WoTLK was heavily carried by Arthas and it did not do him any favors where he was degraded to your run off the mill cartoon villian popping up in quest zones with lame one liners, where MoP was by far the largest fresh more injection the game had to this date. Then while Ulduar was tits, TotGC was literally shit especially after Ulduar, while MoP had decent raids all around.

MoP failed with Dungeons, but it added amazing outdoor content midway. Another issue was 14 months of SoO, but that ain't MoP's fault really.

Side note, Legion is a pretty good expansion too, not sure why people rage about it.

[aysatsana]

Yes, at least for me. Northrend was just amazing and I loved almost everything about Wrath. Not only that, but the game felt more alive than ever in Wrath, which is a big part of what made it amazing. I believe that's when sub numbers peaked.

[Lulbalance]

MoP isn't even in my top 3. Theme was disgusting, content was medium. Anyone voting MoP likely started in MoP or Cata.

[Dug]

I don't know about better per se but I would maybe put in on equal footing? I loved MoP and played it a shit ton.

[Kantoro]

WotLK was the best, Cata was the worst.

[Bonkura]

MoP isn't even in my top 3. Theme was disgusting, content was medium. Anyone voting MoP likely started in MoP or Cata.

Or just like raiding. Since the raids were amazing in MoP.

[A dot Ham]

Well, I thing deathwing flying around each zone was pretty sick.

I'd agree to that.

I think that the "end boss" having a presence throughout the xpac is pretty crucial to the attachment a player has to the xpac.

I think that is where MoP struggled. Garrosh wasn't really the villain. He became a threat that needed to be dealt with by both sides. But that really wasn't until the last content patch. Ya he was a dick... but many horde players see/saw him as the leader they need/want. Which really totally changes the tone of the engagement... it turns our battle(s) in SoO more of a rescue mission, than an act of seeking justice. Not only that, but regardless of what his end goals were... he definitely wasn't a threat to
the horde... maybe in story... but in the game... outside the raid/lore, we weren't fighting internally. I wasn't accosted every time I stepped foot into Orgrimmar.

I actually think WoDs failures have more to do with continuing the direction that MoP took the story. Yes there are undeniably some features that detracted from what makes an mmo unique. But the story is really what drives people. Personally I attribute the sub gains from BC and into WotLK purely based on the fact that it was a continuation (finally) or wrap up of the story we left off from in WCIII.

[Appleson]

MoP is the best for me. Good leveling, good raiding, good story and nice artwork. (although I don't really like Asian theme)

[Hellrime]

If Cata was the best expansion it wouldn't have caused a drop of several million subs.

The drop in subs was most likely due to the difficulty in the dungeons. While ultimately better for not only WoW, but civilization as a whole, Blizzard caved as subs dropped from massive frustration over there not being a free loot button and nerfed the best part of Cata, but they were already losing subs due to the community that didn't think the content was difficult enough. Notice how the glory days of WoW centered around difficult but approachable content and goals, even with WotLK being one of the more casual friendly expansions, it thrived because the content was difficult and people actually wanted to do it. While a very large group of players point fingers and say there is sub loss due to how difficult the content is, the data actually shows the game was more popular when the content wasn't for everybody. Also notice the decline in population as WoW went PC and changed more adult leaning themes to more family friendly content. What made the game popular, imo, was the exclusivity of the content.

[Littleraven]

Not even close. Honestly I feel like the only reason people regard Wrath so highly is because it wrapped up the Arthas storyline. Many people got their love of Warcraft through WC3 so it has a ton of pull and sway over people. Objectively though it was not the best. Was it good? Yes it was. It was actually quite good but it started bad and ended arguably as bad. When it was current the first tier was a joke and no one really cared about it because it was laughably easy. The story had awesome moments like the Wrathgate which opened the door to the in game cinematics we get now but everything else felt dull. It wasn't until Ulduar came out that people finally started to love the content.

I remember people constantly complaining about Wrath when it first came out. It dumbed the game down and was too easy. It also brought the term "wrathbaby". Now sure. People always complain about shit here and on the internet in general so take that with a grain of salt.

Either way though I would rank it above WoD, Cataclysm and maybe even BC but never above MoP. Pound for pound MoP was the best content wise in my mind. As a whole package anyway. Strip the theme of that away but keep the story relatively the same and swap Pandaria for something "more Warcraft" and I guarantee people would have ate it up. But too many people can't get over the "lolpanda" stigma.

[Kelathos]

To add to the discussion.... after the personal disaster that was Cataclysm. (Former Heroic 25man raider) Pandaria is what pulled me back into WoW.

The story-line and theme was bad? You sure you remember that right?

World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria Cinematic Trailer

Mists of Pandaria - Patch 5.2: The Thunder King

Mists of Pandaria - Patch 5.4: Siege of Orgrimmar
^ The moment that pulled me back, making me want to smash Garrosh.

[Deleted]

For me WotLK was far superior to MoP in special as MoP did not have any dungeons in patches anymore, replaced by a bad implementation of Scenarios. And in special as the daily quests were a gating pain.

Also, WotLK allowed you to gain raid gear from others sources than raids. Blizzard is way too fixated on raid gear exclusivity. Other MMORPGs allow you to equip the best gear through crafting, which could also be implemented in WoW, as crafting could be done without playing content people dislike, just by distributing the mats to every available content.