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  1. #21
    Pit Lord Sigxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    I'm not sure if "since biologically" is of any significance to an undead to be honest. And no, DKs are unlikely to be Banshees. First of all Banshees are of female Elf origin. Secondly, Sylvanas is the only known banshee to reposses her own body. Which gave her some unique powers, like the ability to turn her body incorporeal. Which the DKs don't have. She also has normal Banshee powers, like Banshee scream. Which the DKs also lack. Finally, as per Nathanos' short story, it has been clarified how Scourge's DKs have been made (at least the later generation, resurrected by the Val'kyr), which is that they were infused with body mass of a living sacrifice.
    Yeah, let's not go into biology regarding undead, it's not gonna work out. ;_:

    Also, darn that special snowflake, grrr! >_< Though, wouldn't "Wraith Walk" be kinda considered incorporeal?

    Quote Originally Posted by D Luniz View Post
    A death Knight can talk about Greymanne without making you need to take off your headphones
    Ooooh.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by D Luniz View Post
    A death Knight can talk about Greymanne without making you need to take off your headphones
    What does this even mean?

  3. #23
    The Unstoppable Force Friendlyimmolation's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    What does this even mean?
    GREYMANES FORCES HAVE ASSAULTED THIS WARDEN TOWER

    /caps
    Quote Originally Posted by WoWKnight65 View Post
    That's same excuse from you and so many others on this website and your right some of threads do bully high elf fans to a point where they might end up losing their minds to a point of a mass shooting.
    Holy shit lol

  4. #24
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    GREYMANES FORCES HAVE ASSAULTED THIS WARDEN TOWER

    /caps
    I usually play without ingame music, but with in game sounds. This one made me mute all dialogue.

  5. #25
    Pit Lord Sigxy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    GREYMANES FORCES HAVE ASSAULTED THIS WARDEN TOWER

    /caps
    BREAK THEIR RANKS! SHOW NO MERCY! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

    Me: "This is why I just use my Order Hall bonus to finish off the PvP towers from a safe distance. ;_: "

  6. #26
    The Patient Warcrafting's Avatar
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    SPOILER:

    We recently learned in the Blightcaller short story that a special process is involved in the creation of Death Knights that differs from normal undead, which involves an incredibly powerful necromancer (ie the Lich King or Val'kyr) infusing the undead in question with a portion of the necromancer's essence. It also requires a flesh transfusion if the body is too far gone. This process protects the body from further rotting, increases physical capabilities, and grants access to various strains of death magic. This, I presume, is also the reason the lich king has such perfect control- he simply controls the will of the given essence, much like a Horcrux.

    In terms of Sylvanas, this process is not part of her reanimation. The reason her body is so well preserved is that it is well cared for, first by Arthas to torture her with, then by the alchemists of the Royal Apothecary Society. She is simply a Banshee that has possessed a wellźpreserved corpse, rather than a Death Knight.
    "All of Time and Space. Everything that ever was or ever will be. Where do you want to start?"

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    With forsaken i would say they are 100% free willed, with no real "affinity" for evil. There are quite alot of examples of forsaken beig just normal guys and while there are alot of psycho's (like calder gray) we can attribute that to both past trauma and the fact that their current society simply has diffrent norms (like killing humans not being seen as a crime). Long story short - forsaken make their own choices.

    With DKs it seems to be quite diffrent, especially given their new ally. While some of them are clearly 100% free willed (thassarian, koltira, darion) others (especially newly risen horsemen) appear to be a bit...narrow minded. Good example being nazgrim. Then we have to add the entire "need to inflict pain" and whether or not its unconditional or something you can surpress with your will power. And on top of that we don't know what kind of influence Lich king has on DKs (seeing how great they deal with paladins and red dragons they definately make bad decisions much quicker than they used to).
    sources? not sure this is correct.

  8. #28
    Sylvanas is ranged dks are melee

  9. #29
    I'm not certain if this will answer your question - but regarding free will; Sylvanas regained her free will during the events of WC3, when Ner'Zhul's power over her and the banshees weakened. This weakness was caused by the crack in Ner'zhul's Frozen Throne when he cast out Frostmourne to find Arthas. Once she regained her freewill and mental capacity, her hatred for Arthas and his destruction of Silvermoon came out. From there she made the whole elaborate plan with Garithos, the dreadlords, and Kel'Thuzad and declared her army The Forsaken.

    What's not fully understood is how she had complete control over her undead army,even after Arthas returned Frostmourne and became the Lich King. There's theories but much like Archerus breaking free from Arthas' mind control - it's kinda lackluster and full of plotholes IMO.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Since biologically, if a Deathknight can feel pain and anger, there's no reason they can't feel other emotions and feelings.
    Death Knights CAN feel positive emotions and feelings. Check dialogue between Darion Mograine and his father in ICC.

    Quote Originally Posted by roahn the warlock View Post
    Are Deathknights basically Banshees that are immediately placed into their own body?
    No... seeing how Deathlord was able to raise his Horsemen, it seems creation of Death Knight is just a very advanced form of raising Undead, one that requires Lich King level of power. Meanwhile, Banshee is a separate entity that can exist without connection to corporeal body. Soon-to-be Death Knight doesn't have such existence between the points of his death and resurrection, and there seems to be no limit between these points, as seen in Death Knight campaign.
    Quote Originally Posted by Friendlyimmolation View Post
    When an orc eats an orc, two orcs rip out of the orcs stomach, they eat each other and a brand new orc walks through the door, and then his chest explodes and 20 full grown orcs crawl out of his body. They then eat each other and the bodies until there are 3 orcs left. The mystery of the orc reproduction cycle.

  11. #31
    Deathknights are losers, like the Forsaken. I mean, they've already lost once and ended up dead.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logwyn View Post
    What does this even mean?
    My best guess: The bitch-queens voice is really annoying?

    Quote Originally Posted by StationaryHawk View Post
    The Nathanos short story implied that Forsaken have a dulled sense of sympathy, with him only feeling remorse for his actions following his transformation that enhanced his other senses. Granted, it could also just be that he finally lost something he actually gave a damn about.
    That might also only go for those lucky enough to go trough the ritual she put him trough...

  13. #33
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    The thing is, all the older Forsaken were once under the direct control of the Lich King. That control was broken largely because he was weakened. It does seem that reestablishing that control though is vastly harder than creating it in the beginning (otherwise he could have just pressed the Ebon Blade into his service right inside ICC).

    My question is, should a very powerful necromancer like Kil'jaeden be able to take over a powerful undead unit if they expended significant resources and should it not be easier for a necromancer to control the undead than it is for a mage specialized in mental magic to mind control the living?
    Its all about saving rolls so i would say we need to keep in mind both charisma and inteligence of caster as well as wisdom, sanity and willpower of his target.

  14. #34
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Undead are immune to mind affecting effects, you usually control them by inundating them with death/negative/necrotic energy so it would be more of a fortitude/constitution save
    Well that depends while control you are trying to get has more physical effect (aka controling body while conciousness has no control) or actually control mind of sentient undead. But thats just tech talk.

  15. #35
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    Sentient undead minds are not biological though; they are kept running by death magic. You don't alter their thoughts you just overwhelm that death magic with your own.
    Well, that i guess one way of looking at this. Then again sylvanas seemed to pull herself out with sheer willpower while that "lich" we met in tirisfal probably used more magical approach to shrug lich kings control.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Arrashi View Post
    Well that depends while control you are trying to get has more physical effect (aka controling body while conciousness has no control) or actually control mind of sentient undead. But thats just tech talk.
    While trying to mind control a Scourge undead, you are not wrestling against that undead - you are wrestling against the Lich King, and its his mind that you have to overpower.

  17. #37
    The Unstoppable Force Arrashi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rafoel View Post
    While trying to mind control a Scourge undead, you are not wrestling against that undead - you are wrestling against the Lich King, and its his mind that you have to overpower.
    Given how easy its to do for Dks with control undead there isnt much of wrestling.

  18. #38
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    Spoilers Ahead for the Death Knight Order Hall;




    In the storyline, the Lich King himself gives you a Mark of his power in order to raise Death Knights as Champions, at one such endeavor, I believe there is a dialogue regarding Garrosh and him being brought as a Knight, but the attention is then shifted to Nazgrim who followed Garrosh to his demise. The other characters don't tie in much to the story, but at the ending Mograine is lost saving the rest of the Knights from Liadrin's Wrath at Light's Hope Chapel. Once you're back at Acherus Mograine is gone, and the Lich King commands you to raise your final Horseman to lead the others. It stands to reason some beings with too strong of goals wouldn't be proper candidates in serving the Lich King which is ultimately all we're here for. The Legion is a threat to the Lich King as well, it's in his own interest that Death Knights continue serving at the front lines. This does beg the question, what if the Deathlord were to raise a Demon Hunter? Would their corpse be unworthy because of the Fel and demonic magic? or would it just serve to add more power to their arsenal? Personally I've been playing around with this thought for awhile, and the thought of "once the Legion is gone, what purpose will Illidan and his demon hunters serve? They were cast out once, but now that they're playable characters I'm interested to see what happens to their story arc.

  19. #39
    davidbane123
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    Easy one, Sylvanas is a bitch and DK's mostly are not.

  20. #40
    The Lightbringer Zethras's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reckoniize View Post
    Spoilers Ahead for the Death Knight Order Hall;




    In the storyline, the Lich King himself gives you a Mark of his power in order to raise Death Knights as Champions, at one such endeavor, I believe there is a dialogue regarding Garrosh and him being brought as a Knight, but the attention is then shifted to Nazgrim who followed Garrosh to his demise. The other characters don't tie in much to the story, but at the ending Mograine is lost saving the rest of the Knights from Liadrin's Wrath at Light's Hope Chapel. Once you're back at Acherus Mograine is gone, and the Lich King commands you to raise your final Horseman to lead the others. It stands to reason some beings with too strong of goals wouldn't be proper candidates in serving the Lich King which is ultimately all we're here for. The Legion is a threat to the Lich King as well, it's in his own interest that Death Knights continue serving at the front lines. This does beg the question, what if the Deathlord were to raise a Demon Hunter? Would their corpse be unworthy because of the Fel and demonic magic? or would it just serve to add more power to their arsenal? Personally I've been playing around with this thought for awhile, and the thought of "once the Legion is gone, what purpose will Illidan and his demon hunters serve? They were cast out once, but now that they're playable characters I'm interested to see what happens to their story arc.
    In a different thread I mused at the idea of what if an elven death knight were to undergo the demon hunter initiation ritual. It sparked some rather interesting conversation, some people saying it would flat out not work.
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