Page 9 of 40 FirstFirst ...
7
8
9
10
11
19
... LastLast
  1. #161
    Banned Orlong's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Class 1,000,000 Clean Room
    Posts
    13,127
    Quote Originally Posted by Krigaren View Post
    I mean, it's in the preamble of the Constitution to "...insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity."
    Welfare in this context doesnt refer to the government providing everything you need to live a nice life. We didnt have ANY welfare handouts until the 1900s.



    Quote Originally Posted by Krigaren View Post
    The Declaration of Independence also establishes "life" as an unalienable right.
    And you do have the right to life. You do NOT have the right to have life extended beyond its natural expiration unless you want to pay for it via insurance or flat out cash

  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulla View Post
    No thanks, I'll keep my money. Except for the truly poor and disabled which we already provide for, they can keep their bad life decisions.
    Its nice to see you admit that for all of your talk about what's a right and a privilege, it really was only every about you.

  3. #163
    Herald of the Titans RaoBurning's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Arizona, US
    Posts
    2,726
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulla View Post
    No thanks, I'll keep my money. Except for the truly poor and disabled which we already provide for, they can keep their bad life decisions.
    Yes. All life results are a matter of choice. Nothing catastrophically bad ever happens to people at random or for reasons outside their non-deific control. This is exactly true. Nobody ever got booted off their insurance after a cancer diagnosis or anything awful like that. Ever.

    Goddamned /s just to be safe.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wells View Post
    This is America. We always have warm dead bodies.
    if we had confidence that the President clearly did not commit a crime, we would have said that.

  4. #164
    Depends on how you define a "right". I would disagree that healthcare is a right in the same sense that I would disagree that police and firefighter protection are rights.

    A right is one of the inherent things about life that no one is allowed to take from you. I have a right to live. I have a right to choose my actions (so long as they do not infringe upon others). I have a right to defend myself. I have a right to speak my mind. I have the right to associate with whomever I choose. I have a right to worship as I see fit. No moral government or society can claim otherwise.

    Things like healthcare are societal contracts. A moral society ought to offer basic protections, but these protections are not rights. I do not have a right to force others to protect me or mine. I do not have a right to force others to treat me when I am injured or sick. Those are things that society has decided ought to be provided to its people, but they aren't "rights" in the same sense as life, self-defense, free speech, religion, etc. One involves self-governance and freedom from infringement by other people, the other is an agreement between the people of a society.

  5. #165
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Jaylock View Post
    Personally I think Healthcare is a privilege and not a right.

    If you misuse your body you should have to deal with the consequences unless you have purchased protection in the form of insurance.

    Also, in ANY civilized country, no hospital is going to turn you away if you have something life threatening that HAS to be taken care of even if you don't have insurance.

    Forcing doctors to see patients under universal health care greatly diminishes a doctors will to continue practicing. It also reduces the will of any people who would be willing to undergo 10+ years of education to become a doctor because the limited ability to make good money in the profession.
    What if i was born with a life threatening disease? Too bad? Better not hope your kids get born with life threatening diseases, it's their privilege to die because of where you live afterall.
    All my friends who became doctors didn't do it because of the money but the emotional satisfaction of making a difference, do red cross volunteers in war infested countries do it for the sake of the money? Fuck no.

  6. #166
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulla View Post
    No thanks, I'll keep my money. Except for the truly poor and disabled which we already provide for, they can keep their bad life decisions.
    Ah so we finally get to it.

    Why pay for a police for if you aren't being robbed? Why pay for a crossing that I've never crossed? Why do my taxes pay for a primary school i've never been too? How does it make society for me better?

    How dare an ambulance pick me up if I'm having a heart attack, what right does the state have to force me into the back of an ambulance while I'm dying? Sounds like communism, one day they do this the next its communal farms and the invasion of eastern europe.

  7. #167
    Banned Orlong's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Class 1,000,000 Clean Room
    Posts
    13,127
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Yes, you do have that right. They swear the hippocratic oath so you have that right. They've done it long before anyone thought about health insurances, too. That is what being a doctor is about. Helping patients, regardless of the circumstances. This is why in wars medics will often treat even the enemy.
    There is no law requiring you to swear the oath before you can be a licensed doctor. Many just choose to take it. Also there is no legal penalty if you do take it and not follow it as well

  8. #168
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Orlong View Post
    Doctors in countries with government run healthcare make about 60% less than doctors in the US.
    You also don't get a bill for thousands of dollars for a doctor to measure your balls for 15 seconds and 2 painkillers

  9. #169
    Great thread

    Apparently you only get sick if you eat literal garbage and get cancer from it (because that's how it works). It's either this, or you just have a small cough anyway that you can cure by strongly believing in it.

    Are you guys mental or something?

  10. #170
    Lack of basic health care is inhumane, inefficient and lowers the quality of human civilizations.

    Whether one wants to 'pay for it' or not is irrelevant. We're all paying for those humans that lack basic health care both as individuals (financial) and as a species. Universal health care is the most rational decision for ensuring humans of all generations live at the highest quality possible.

    Commentary about abusing your body is nonsense and frankly pure intellectual dishonesty in the motivation for creating this thread. That is ignorance without question.

  11. #171
    It's a Right, because right to life is a thing.
    Also don't worry about doctors, not only they will survive but also there's something called Declaration of Geneva, they have already "declared" that it's a right and not a privilege.

  12. #172
    Healthcare is a right because you cant control you health. You think you can but you cant. Figure it all like a lottery. Sometimes people get lucky and only spin on mild things like flu, colds, maybe something u have to the doctor for once or twice in your life such as your apendix or tonsils have to come out. Yes you can stay in good shape and that helps long term things like diabetes or some heart issues. Overall the vast majority of things people complain about are things you cant control. You could get cancer, have heart problems run in the family and have a heart attack just cause, yes it happens, brain damage from an accident that wasnt your fault, just to name some serious things. Not to mention getting old period fucks your body. Dementia, strokes, heart problems, kidney problems, liver any number of things happen when you get old.

    Some issues that need healthcare and arent life threatening but need medical attention:
    Kidney stones (depending on where you live in the country they are common and happen at least once in a persons life)
    Staph infection: These are so lottery based its ridiculous cause they can happen from you being dirty and/or being to clean.
    Broken Bones/bodily injury: These happen at random at no fault of your own sometimes. You could get mugged and beat up. You could fall down some stairs while moving in your new apartment.

    There are so many things that can happen that cause you to go to the hospital. I know someone that broke there finger during a storm due the wind slamming their car door when they were going for shelter. Doctor visit plus setting the bone, xray and all that cost them 2000. It wasnt even their fault they were going to a tornado shelter due to there being a tornado.

    Remember once upon a time people argued that kids going to school was privilege, and public paved roads were privilege, even in some countries public police are privilege.

  13. #173
    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    You would be wrong.

    Financial success attracts the best and brightest. Without fiscal and career incentives, the healthcare system would implode and the quality of providers would plummet. Visited China once, caught something. A month of various meds from their doctors didn't help. One week of med from my US physician cleared it right up. Guess what, doctors in China are educated at the high school level, are considered inferior to their engineers, and are compensated as such.
    For some reason I'm not buying this, and to top it off are you comparing fucking China healthcare to first world nations?

  14. #174
    I live in an area where there are LOTS of factories pumping chemicals into the sky every day—to say nothing of the working conditions within the actual buildings. Pretty much everyone around here has some kind of scrotum cancer by age 60; the gov't absolutely SHOULD foot the healthcare bill.

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by Dittoooo View Post
    I live in an area where there are LOTS of factories pumping chemicals into the sky every day—to say nothing of the working conditions within the actual buildings. Pretty much everyone around here has some kind of scrotum cancer by age 60; the gov't absolutely SHOULD foot the healthcare bill.
    How about the government fix the pollution instead of waiting to clean up the mess. Prevention is better than repair.

    Talk about missing the point...

    Quote Originally Posted by Iamanerd View Post
    For some reason I'm not buying this, and to top it off are you comparing fucking China healthcare to first world nations?
    And I'm not buying your BS.

    See what I did there? A non-argument argument.

  16. #176
    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    How about the government fix the pollution instead of waiting to clean up the mess. Prevention is better than repair.
    You are correct. Prevention is better. But the people who are typically against government healthcare are also against regulations regarding pollution.

    I wonder why that could be? Strange world huh?

  17. #177
    Old God Captain N's Avatar
    10+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    New Resident of Emerald City
    Posts
    10,944
    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    How about the government fix the pollution instead of waiting to clean up the mess. Prevention is better than repair.

    Talk about missing the point...

    Absolutely right. Prevention is better than repair. Which is we need a system in place that allows people easily accessible preventative care before they require a major hospital stay. Those in support of Universal Healthcare applaud your decision to join the cause.

  18. #178
    Quote Originally Posted by yurano View Post
    How about the government fix the pollution instead of waiting to clean up the mess. Prevention is better than repair.

    Talk about missing the point...
    Because business restrictions totally don't fuck with the economy in worse ways, right?

    Why do you think the US didn't even want to LOOK at something like the Kyoto Protocol? Cleaning up after the mess is actually less expensive than scaring business owners away.

  19. #179
    Quote Originally Posted by Taftvalue View Post
    Terrible analogy. Fire spreads. Cancer doesn't.
    Actually some cancers spread... although it may not spread as 'cancer' specifically. For example HPV.

    But ignoring cancer...

    Measles spread.

    Tuberculosis spreads.

    HIV spreads.

    There's plenty of stuff that spreads that taking a narrow-minded 'individuals don't have a right to care' point of view is pretty stupid.


    For example... lets look at Tuberculosis.

    Say you have primary care. You go early. Less people get quarantined.

    Say you don't have insurance because "f poor people" or whatever. You go to the emergency room when you're about to die, having exposed dozens of people to it...


    Y'all "it's not a right" people basically don't understand biology. It isn't a "rights" issue. You're asking the wrong question. How do we minimize cost of health care at a reasonable level is a better question... and by inserting 'rights' into it, you're making us do it wrong.

  20. #180
    Banned Haven's Avatar
    15+ Year Old Account
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Petropavlovsk-Kamchatsky, Russia
    Posts
    11,046
    If healthcare would be a privilege, then what should I pay taxes for? What would the state give me then?

    The way I see it, it's a basic social deal: I pay taxes, the state grants me and my children security, healthcare and education. If I don't receive any of those, then what am I paying for?

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •