Why do YOU think Healthcare is a Right and not a Privilege?

[Orlong]

Welcome to NHS*.

*not that private healthcare is any better.

Yeah, the NHS where you get a shitty surgeon who leaves a piece of sponge in you and you have no recourse other than to let them open you back up and remove it, maybe with an apology. In the US, when that happens you get to sue the hospital for millions and retire

[kail]

So I should be forced to pay for someone else's abortion through taxes because healthcare is a right?

Um no thanks. It's not about right and wrong, it's about this vast bureaucracy known as government controlling the populous and telling us whats good or moral.

No, we have the Hyde Amendment for that. Abortions have never nor should be free for the patient unless they are a victim of rape. But nice try with the strawman.

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I will never understand americans aversion to healthcare.

It makes good money.

[Deleted]

If you need someone else to do something for you, it is not a right.

Legal defense is a right, isn't it?

[Ravenblade]

Yeah, the NHS where you get a shitty surgeon who leaves a piece of sponge in you and you have no recourse other than to let them open you back up and remove it, maybe with an apology. In the US, when that happens you get to sue the hospital for millions and retire

Seems to me that your entire point hinges on how much profit you can make from other people's mistakes.

[kail]

Actually, it is. That's part of the reason it's more expensive. The USA has some of the best doctors and probably the best medical technology in the world.

Then those "best" doctors are really shitty with their high end medical technology.



Countries who smoke more than we do happen to outlive us. We are spending far more on medical costs with absolutely nothing to show for it.

[Docturphil]

Then those "best" doctors are really shitty with their high end medical technology.



Countries who smoke more than we do happen to outlive us. We are spending far more on medical costs with absolutely nothing to show for it.

If you actually did any analysis of that chart you would have noticed that the USA has the highest obesity rates. This is one of the biggest reasons the life expectancy is lower. Higher quality healthcare doesn't fix people's poor diets.

Sooooo thanks for proving my point I guess.

[Rasulis]

Health Care is a privilege until you or somebody in your family has cancer that requires long term chemo and stem cell transplant treatments. Then it becomes a right.

[kail]

If you actually did any analysis of that chart you would have noticed that the USA has the highest obesity rates. This is one of the biggest reasons the life expectancy is lower. Higher quality healthcare doesn't fix people's poor diets.

Sooooo thanks for proving my point I guess.

Are infants also dieing for obesity? Is AU and NZ still doing something that we can learn from looking at their obesity rates? You have to be in denial to think the $3000 hospital visit to get pain relief prescription is cost effective. Again, our spending on healthcare has given zero ROI.

[petej0]

Then those "best" doctors are really shitty with their high end medical technology.

Countries who smoke more than we do happen to outlive us. We are spending far more on medical costs with absolutely nothing to show for it.

Look at the obesity rate, that brings on so many other health problems. Americans are not healthy, go take a visit to your local wal-mart and people watch. I question the infant mortality rate because the US medical system counts all births, where other countries only count births that reach a certain point in pregnancy.

[Docturphil]

Are infants also dieing for obesity? Is AU and NZ still doing something that we can learn from looking at their obesity rates? You have to be in denial to think the $3000 hospital visit to get pain relief prescription is cost effective. Again, our spending on healthcare has given zero ROI.

I never said anything about the costs not being an issue. I've stated the opposite actually. The costs are high compared to other countries. That's a fact.

I'm talking about the actual quality of medical treatment with all costs aside.

And by the way, no single chart anywhere is going to give you all the information you need to be able to come to the sort of conclusion you're trying to come up with. There are way too many factors to consider. It's more complicated than "Oh, look, infant mortality. Quality of healthcare must be shitty." or "Oh, look, a lot of deaths by heart attacks. Quality of healthcare must be shitty." Let's try a little bit of critical thinking here and remember that correlation does not necessarily imply causation.

[Daelak]

The sensible debate is not about what healthcare is, because it is not fundamentally anything. It's whatever we decide it will be.

The sensible debate is about whether it should be declared a right, and treated that way, or shouldn't. (All rights are optional. All rights are enshrined as such by human beings. They are all concepts thought up by humans, none of them are fundamental.)

Evidence indicates that outcomes will be better if access to healthcare is declared a right, and the healthcare system is organized accordingly.

However, this does not matter to people who do not care about outcomes, but only about ideology.

Which is what the whole premise of opposition to healthcare reform to republicans. It boils down to them not accepting that citizens (women, minorities, disabled, impoverished) deserve the same protections and rights as they do.

[Barnabas]

If healthcare is a right then isn't it your right to stay healthy? You can't have one without the other. Meaning it's your right to not abuse your body and lead an unhealthy lifestyle. That alone should keep you away from doctors and the need for healthcare for the most part.

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Which is what the whole premise of opposition to healthcare reform to republicans. It boils down to them not accepting that citizens (women, minorities, disabled, impoverished) deserve the same protections and rights as they do.

That's the most bizarre reason you could think of? The argument is drawing a line of personal responsibility. Has nothing to do with race, gender or anything else. The left is relentless with the race and gender cards. I think it's you guys that are racist. Why? Because it's always being brought up by you guys. The only thing that has changed since the 1960's is your clothes.

[Mackwiss]

I have Asthma since I was 6 months of age... damn... I started really early missusing my body...

[Barnabas]

I have Asthma since I was 6 months of age... damn... I started really early missusing my body...

Yet we have people that have abused drugs their entire life and they cost more to care for than you do. So if you fall outside of not your fault then it's not about you.

[Daelak]

If healthcare is a right then isn't it your right to stay healthy? You can't have one without the other. Meaning it's your right to not abuse your body and lead an unhealthy lifestyle. That alone should keep you away from doctors and the need for healthcare for the most part.

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That's the most bizarre reason you could think of? The argument is drawing a line of personal responsibility. Has nothing to do with race, gender or anything else.

Personal responsibility is a conservative meme. It doesn't mean anything outside of hand-waving a way to have a debate with nuance and detail regarding healthcare for citizens, because conservatives know universal healthcare with one large risk pool of 320 million people is the only way to increase access and stop healthcare cost volatility.

[Barnabas]

Personal responsibility is a conservative meme. It doesn't mean anything outside of hand-waving a way to have a debate with nuance and detail regarding healthcare for citizens, because conservatives know universal healthcare with one large risk pool of 320 million people is the only way to increase access and stop healthcare cost volatility.

So you agree that people that have used street drugs their entire adult life deserve to be insured with your tax dollars? At the rate of almost 1 million usd per year? Then you complain that there isn't money to take care of you? Are you serious?

[Daelak]

So you agree that people that have used street drugs their entire adult life deserve to be insured with your tax dollars?

Sure, it would help them get off of "street drugs", potentially becoming productive members of society, raising the real estate value of the area, less crimes being committed.

[Barnabas]

Sure, it would help them get off of "street drugs", potentially becoming productive members of society, raising the real estate value of the area, less crimes being committed.

Wouldn't letting them die from the bad choice do the same thing? Last I checked funerals are 10 thousand usd. Versus 1 million per year to keep them alive and their insurance rates don't skyrocket like everyone else?

[beanman12345]

Well, at least in the US we have these things called unalienable rights, one of them being life. And one would have to be really stupid to think not misusing your body will keep you away from doctors your whole life.

[Barnabas]

Well, at least in the US we have these things called unalienable rights, one of them being life. And one would have to be really stupid to think not misusing your body will keep you away from doctors your whole life.

You always buy your own insurance policy?