Some help with Arcane DPS

[dev'olution]

Disclaimer: Before you guys start with the whole Arcane isn't the best spec, I don't have a fire/frost OS yet, as I was kinda thrust into the role by my guild.


My gear
You can view my armory here... https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...hremar/sunbear
(I do have the binding of mastery on my ring also)

My dilemma
Ok so due to the high movement requirements of Nighthold, I've been advised to take Incanters Flow over Rune of Power. Which is fine because I average no more than 200k+ either atm.

So basically, I hit Charge Up, drop MoA, then AP and PoM - all the while, I'm dropping my Missiles stacks as soon as they pop up.

Either way, I end up finishing each boss with no more than 260k DPS and that's it when I should be averaging over 400k.

Does anyone have any successful specs/rotations for Nighthold?

Thanks in advance!

[adamthemute]

The Nelfy 7.1.5 guide stickied at the top seems accurate still

[Deleted]

Disclaimer: Before you guys start with the whole Arcane isn't the best spec, I don't have a fire/frost OS yet, as I was kinda thrust into the role by my guild.


My gear
You can view my armory here... https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ch...hremar/sunbear
(I do have the binding of mastery on my ring also)

My dilemma
Ok so due to the high movement requirements of Nighthold, I've been advised to take Incanters Flow over Rune of Power. Which is fine because I average no more than 200k+ either atm.

So basically, I hit Charge Up, drop MoA, then AP and PoM - all the while, I'm dropping my Missiles stacks as soon as they pop up.

Either way, I end up finishing each boss with no more than 260k DPS and that's it when I should be averaging over 400k.

Does anyone have any successful specs/rotations for Nighthold?

Thanks in advance!

1. You shouldn't gem/enchant for mastery. Crit will almost always be better. You also don't have the +200 int gem.
2. Do you have any recent log so we can have a look at it ?

Rotation wise, your opener is fine, just make sure to use a pot (even the basic + stat is fine) and precast your MOA. Then burn all your mana and evocate.

Once you're done, you're in conserve until you have AP back on the menu. Cast 4 AB, any AM you have procced, then barrage.

If you get a lucky streak (2 AM proc for example) you can use your second ROP if it's going to come back by the time you have AP.

More importantly, if you don't have to move. Don't. If you need to move, use blink, stutter step during your AB global cooldown or during your AM with slipstream; and most importantly don't move more than required. Krosus is a good example, you go near the edge of the platform, stay as close as the beam as possible and change side using slipstream.

[Deleted]

For raids you should use those talents:
Ampli
Slipstream
RoP (learn how to use it, RoP is much better for Arcane than IF)
Resonance (Charged Up is good only if you have kilt)
Chronoshift
Erosion
Overpower (OP is much better thanTemporal Flux, especially if you don't have 2 mana regen legendaries.

Opener:
Precast AB
3x AB
Cast MoA
Cast RoP
Cast AP macro (all available cds)
During AP cast as much AM as u can

Tips:
- Get neck and ring from The Arcway, they are huge dps increase for Arcane
- Cast RoP when AP is UP
- Cast RoP with every MoA. Not not delay it

[morchel]

I am gearing my mage alt (890) at the moment. You should easily get 400k single target and 700-800k for AoE fights like Aluriel and Tichondrius with the Time and Space trait.
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...-done&fight=17

Charged up is only valuable with the legendary pants or true single target. You can play with Resonance on almost all fights in NH.
Drop your Mastery and pick Rune of Power and Overpowered. Your burst phases will completely carry you. You just have to know when you can safely stay at one position for 15 seconds.

[davesignal]

So not to hijack this guy's thread, but if I'm in 895 gear with Norgannon's and Shard of the Exodar, I should feel alright pulling 700k on Spellblade and 585k on Krosus?

[Deleted]

So not to hijack this guy's thread, but if I'm in 895 gear with Norgannon's and Shard of the Exodar, I should feel alright pulling 700k on Spellblade and 585k on Krosus?

On spellblade 700k is low, on Krosus 585k is fine

[davesignal]

I was a little leery about getting in close to make use of Arcane Explosion, guess I'll need to get over that.

[Deleted]

I was a little leery about getting in close to make use of Arcane Explosion, guess I'll need to get over that.

Yeah don't be scared to do that When adds respawn jump in melee range pop all cds and rekt the charts.

[Deleted]

1. You shouldn't gem/enchant for mastery. Crit will almost always be better. You also don't have the +200 int gem.
2. Do you have any recent log so we can have a look at it ?

Rotation wise, your opener is fine, just make sure to use a pot (even the basic + stat is fine) and precast your MOA. Then burn all your mana and evocate.

Once you're done, you're in conserve until you have AP back on the menu. Cast 4 AB, any AM you have procced, then barrage.

If you get a lucky streak (2 AM proc for example) you can use your second ROP if it's going to come back by the time you have AP.

More importantly, if you don't have to move. Don't. If you need to move, use blink, stutter step during your AB global cooldown or during your AM with slipstream; and most importantly don't move more than required. Krosus is a good example, you go near the edge of the platform, stay as close as the beam as possible and change side using slipstream.

This post is wrong on so many levels.... just don't believe in anything this perosn says.... looks like this onbe hasn't even read your post, as he/she suggest when to use RoP....

First thing I would recommend you... take resonance instead of charged up...... it is almost equal dps wise and won't trouble you....
Take Overpowered instead of temporal flux, still gem to mastery, as you don't have a mana legy e.g. kilt (trousers) or rhonins (arm wraps) yet.... if you get one of those you can drop mastery....
for the rest.... try to practice.... ignore burn/conserve phase.... if you take overpowered your mana won't drop in burst phase that much. try this get to 4 Arcane charges, drop all missiles, if you got over 90% mana cast an additional ArcaneBlast, then Arcane Barrage and repeat..... this alone shlould do more than 400k.... ifyou master this try to use a real burn phase and evocate.....
Greetings, Atronach

For raids you should use those talents:[...]
RoP (learn how to use it, RoP is much better for Arcane than IF)[...]

Stick to IF.... RoP will just cause you trouble and might bring you from 550 to 570k dps.... try to get 500k fist before going to the very top....

[Deleted]

This post is wrong on so many levels.... just don't believe in anything this perosn says.... looks like this onbe hasn't even read your post, as he/she suggest when to use RoP....

I read him fine. He want number, he needs to use RoP. Simple as that. Crutches are not how people learn to play.

I even tried to find some log from him. I found an amazing Krosus fight where he ran like a maniac whenever he had to and played with only 6 talents. The issue here is core gameplay, he need to move less. It's not like the arcane rotation is rocket science.

Take Overpowered instead of temporal flux, still gem to mastery, as you don't have a mana legy e.g. kilt (trousers) or rhonins (arm wraps) yet.... if you get one of those you can drop mastery....

Ye, get a subpar stat on your gem, that will surely help.

for the rest.... try to practice.... ignore burn/conserve phase.... if you take overpowered your mana won't drop in burst phase that much. try this get to 4 Arcane charges, drop all missiles, if you got over 90% mana cast an additional ArcaneBlast, then Arcane Barrage and repeat..... this alone shlould do more than 400k.... ifyou master this try to use a real burn phase and evocate.....
Greetings, Atronach

"For the rest try to practice by not trying to play like you should".

[Deleted]

Yeah don't be scared to do that When adds respawn jump in melee range pop all cds and rekt the charts.

You should respect your raid's tactics and keep an eye on the frost debuff though

- - - Updated - - -

I read him fine. He want number, he needs to use RoP. Simple as that. Crutches are not how people learn to play.



Ye, get a subpar stat on your gem, that will surely help.



"For the rest try to practice by not trying to play like you should".

No he willl not need to use RoP to perform that good. IF will work well too.
That gem/enchant for mastery is still valid... you just don't know when to drop mastery
For the rest... the way one "should" play is BS if you are not in a cutting edge guild... which he/she is definitely not... so stop telling which things are a must or onbe have to do to be "viable"....

I even tried to find some log from him. I found an amazing Krosus fight where he ran like a maniac whenever he had to and played with only 6 talents. The issue here is core gameplay, he need to move less. It's not like the arcane rotation is rocket science.

That is why you shouldn't recommend rookies to use RoP and so on.... IF will do some FEW % less dps, but will increase ppl dps, who don't use RoP properly...

[Deleted]

You should respect your raid's tactics and keep an eye on the frost debuff though

- - - Updated - - -

Outside of MM, the frost debuff fade as the adds spawn.

No he willl not need to use RoP to perform that good. IF will work well too.


That gem/enchant for mastery is still valid... you just don't know when to drop mastery
For the rest... the way one "should" play is BS if you are not in a cutting edge guild... which he/she is definitely not... so stop telling which things are a must or onbe have to do to be "viable"....

If he master the pulling and BL sequence, he will get to 500k. ROP, cutting mastery and playing correctly with burn/conserve is how you play correctly. This is not being "viable" this is playing Arcane as it was designed.

I just got called an elitist for telling some guy to use conserve/burn as an arcane mage, holy fucking shit MMOC.

That is why you shouldn't recommend rookies to use RoP and so on.... IF will do some FEW % less dps, but will increase ppl dps, who don't use RoP properly...

Mastering RoP is hard. Using RoP on pull and keeping one charge for AP is child play, and has nothing to do with movement. If he move during his burst phase, his dps will tank anyway.

All your "hints" are hint to stay a rookie. At least Caath and I are actually trying to improve his gameplay in some way, rather than bandaid-ing his dps.

[Deleted]

Outside of MM, the frost debuff fade as the adds spawn.






If he master the pulling and BL sequence, he will get to 500k. ROP, cutting mastery and playing correctly with burn/conserve is how you play correctly. This is not being "viable" this is playing Arcane as it was designed.

I just got called an elitist for telling some guy to use conserve/burn as an arcane mage, holy fucking shit MMOC.



Mastering RoP is hard. Using RoP on pull and keeping one charge for AP is child play, and has nothing to do with movement. If he move during his burst phase, his dps will tank anyway.

All your "hints" are hint to stay a rookie. At least Caath and I are actually trying to improve his gameplay in some way, rather than bandaid-ing his dps.

The point is.... you haven't understood, that talents are not the way to improve his gameplay....
And still you are very much dividing viable talents from other talents which are also viable in this sector. everything else is elitist and a lie

[Deleted]

The point is.... you haven't understood, that talents are not the way to improve his gameplay....
And still you are very much dividing viable talents from other talents which are also viable in this sector. everything else is elitist and a lie

No, it is you who do not understand how important talents are. RoP is the main source of dps for Arcane, and as Arcane mage YOU HAVE TO learn how to use it. Playing with IF puts you behind everyone else from the very start of the fight. Moreover, what is easier, finding a moment where you can stand still for 6-10s or following IF buffs all the time so you don't use main abilities with low IF stacks? Furthermore, as Arcane you want to stand in one place as long as you can. So if you are standing still what is the point of takich mobile dps utility? Learn fights, find spots when you can use RoP for its full duration and you will become top DPS, follow the advices of noname mages that sugest you to stay with IF and you will be a burden for your raid group.

Best Regards,
Naustis, one of the top Arcane mages in the world

[Trumpcat]

No, it is you who do not understand how important talents are. RoP is the main source of dps for Arcane, and as Arcane mage YOU HAVE TO learn how to use it. Playing with IF puts you behind everyone else from the very start of the fight. Moreover, what is easier, finding a moment where you can stand still for 6-10s or following IF buffs all the time so you don't use main abilities with low IF stacks? Furthermore, as Arcane you want to stand in one place as long as you can. So if you are standing still what is the point of takich mobile dps utility? Learn fights, find spots when you can use RoP for its full duration and you will become top DPS, follow the advices of noname mages that sugest you to stay with IF and you will be a burden for your raid group.

Best Regards,
Naustis, one of the top Arcane mages in the world

Admirations for not settling with mediocrity. All too often someone would genuinely ask how to improve and get told they don't have to because... not being the best they can be is okay. Socialjusticing hates striving for excellence.

[Deleted]

Hi, I want to help a bit ~ been playing arcane for a long time, hence i think there is a lot of misconception about how arcane is meant to be played. I would like to expand a bit in what knowledge I've gained, especially in NH.

To start off just a link to my logs, for credibility, y'kno :
warcraftlogs.com/character/eu/dentarg/chokomilkgtl#

Let me start off with legendaries, and their implication in the arcane rotations:

Most of you that went in and saw the logs, noticed that I use a lot Gravity Spiral: main reason for it, is because of how the 4pc in NH works, you are able to always have mana, and you gain access to more places to burn together with RoP. I really enjoy this one. The play style is more fluid.

Then there is the famous kilt: good legendary to use when there is targets to cleave, most people pair this legendary up with 'Charge Up', since you can get a great amount of mana back in 3 gcd. However, the play style here is less fluid, because of how you need to manage your mana for certain burst phases, it create also a conserve phase, which isn't my play-style.

The reason I mention both these legendaries is because they are the ones which create implications for new Arcane players. However, I will try and give you a notion of how you do your opener and your rotation, giving you a better understanding of when and how. Let me start by saying though, that for being able to push high numbers, you need gear, track everything " and i mean everything", and be open minded, that small changes might not make a big difference, but various smalls play style changes can improve your dps by a large margin.

I saw someone in the threat give a opener that is just meh, and in the wrong order IMO, there are different openers this is just the ones that I'm mostly familiar with.

Talents: Amplification, Slipstream, RoP, Resonance , Chrono Shift (doesnt really matter) , Erosion and Overpowered.

Opener:
Pre-pot
4x AB
MoA
RoP
PoM
AP
AB, until AP is inactive.
RoP
AB, until out of mana
Evocation

This is a pretty basic opener, you want to have 3x AM stacked for when you come out of evocation.
Here, you are trying to dump all your mana as fast as possible, but there are no AM discharges anywhere... The reason why you dont see me mention AM, is because you want to weave AB into AM.

Weaving AB into AM basic principal, is to allow you to have AM charges to move, and try and reduce the amount of mana you are using. Another option, is when you have a proc of Touch of the Magi, in which case you want to AB> 3xAM. Another thing to mention, is where i use PoM, you will always save PoM for AP, if the fight is under 6mins. My reason for it being there is because I have Aluneth's Avarice, which will instantly cap my mana back to full, for more AB.

The second opener and I like this one a lot is:

Talents: Amplification, Slipstream, RoP, Charge Up!, Chrono Shift (doesnt really matter) , Erosion and Overpowered.

Pre-pot
MoA
RoP
Charge Up!
PoM
AP
AB, until you have 1 second left
Arcane Barrage
Charge Up!
RoP
AB, until out of mana.
Evocation

This one is a bit more demanding on the fingers, but i can guarantee that this opener is probably the best, regardless of the legendaries you have you want to be able to Arcane Barrage, and Charge up! again right after in order to search for AM procs.
Another reason why i dont Charge up! after pre potting, is because when you enter combat your stacks will drop, making the player have to cast 3xAB... can be a bit annoying.

If you do have one of the legendaries I mentioned above, both of them benefit from the second opener. I would recommend looking at my logs, and see what i kinda do in my rotation and openers, because i trying to stacks a lot of the procs together, trinket, concordance, etc. especially together with Touch of the Magi.

I would recommend the second Opener and try and master that playstyle to OP. Esecially since you have Cord of Infinity, you will find that after the opener you will have a lot of AM to manage, but remember to always weave AB into AM, since you want to get your evocation to get off cd ASAP.

Finally, I want to tell new arcane players that the spec might seem easy, but in reality there is much to it and it's fun, even though there are RNG elements present.

PS: I forgot to mention, try to always save one RoP for AP, the rest of the time just use it when you think you can burn mana without a big set back, you want to avoid as much as possible the so called 'conserve' phase.

[Benitora]

For my start on burst, I do this rotation:
Pre-pot
Arcane blast 4 times
Rune of power
Arcane power
Mark of Aluneth
Presence of mind
Arcane blast 2 times instantly
If you have 3 charges of Arcane missiles, fire of 1, then continue to arcane blast. Keep using the third stack of Arcane missiles, no more. Don't want to waste a charge of it.

If it is a burn phase, where you have heroism/bloodlust up, keep burning mana until you hit zero, then evocation.
If not, use Barrage at about 50%, start again with Arcane Blast to 4, if you have 2 or more Arcane charges and have 3 Arcane missile proccs, use em all and discharge using Barrage again.

It's quite hard for me to explain it simply on text, as it's something I do rather automatic in raids/m+.
I usually hit about 650k DPS on single target, and over 1.5m in AOE situations.
Item level 897, with Legendary chest and Time warp ring.

Talent choices are:
Amplification, Slipstream, Rune of power, Resonance, Chrono shift, Erosion and Overpowered.

Saving the Arcane missile proc is usually just to make sure I have something to use while moving, as to not waste my DPS by only moving.

[Deleted]

Casting MoA after AP is a bad idea. This way you are losing 2 seconds of AP for 1 tick of MoA that deal like 300k dmg In that place u could cast AM or AB for 3.5kk. And you should use AM on 2 stacks, never stack them to 3 as u can miss some procs. For example, if you have 2 AM stacks, cast AB and follow it up with AM.

[Joshuazj]

10/10M Arcane Mage here.

One tip I can give for the opener is to spam Arcane Explosion before the pull. You can get 3 stacks of Arcane Missiles before you pull and get a good burst window every time.

I would sim your character for your stat weights, as they are rather fluid for Arcane, dependent on gear.

In regards to your movement concerns, I would suggest reserving one stack of Arcane Missiles for movement. I would also recommend learning when the movement will occur so you can move beforehand while you are casting evocation if need be.

If you have further questions, feel free to add me to bnet, joshua#15927