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  1. #61
    Limit for world furst...wooo yeahhhh Murica!

  2. #62
    Herald of the Titans Nutri's Avatar
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    Doesn't this happen every xpac? Some guilds fall, others rise or merge. Rinse and repeat.

  3. #63
    When fights as designed around people having max AP, how can anyone less than top play the game??

    I remember raiding when all you had to do is show up for raid and that all that was required. Now for you to be able to raid, you need so much AP to down the boss. And how do you get AP, grind outside of raid time. FUCK THAT.

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephcyte View Post
    P.S. Do you think the fact that top guilds are quitting (and this is a blow to wow raiding community) will be a wake up call for Blizzard that their system has some serious flaws or are they just going to ignore that since this is only top end guilds problems who make 0.0001% of player base.
    First you said that it was a huge blow to the raiding community and then you go on to say that it concerns 0.0001% of the playerbase. With such a miniscule percentage involved, it doesn't really matter.

    Even if all of these guilds would quit raiding, WF achievements woulld simply come a little later than was the case in the past and that is all there is to it.

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by Girrag View Post
    That's exactly what smart people predicted long time ago. One of long-term consequences of LFR. Players has no reason to go into proper raiding. And even less people go into top rading. So top guilds can't find anybody to replace their members.
    Basically this. Participating in a top 10 (world) kill requires an obscene amount of time, like 5+ raids per week during progress, to the point that you possibly have to put your job and personal life on hold. It's a pretty big sacrifice to make IMO. And if you don't have a shot at WF, many upper-tier raiders don't see the point of trying at all... at least, not for the amount of effort that Legion requires. There's only a very tiny portion of top-tier PvE players who manage to make a living out of streaming/content creation as well.

    Upper-level PvE raiding is a niche. It's kind of an anomaly in the gaming community. Skilled hardcore gamers can often make a better living out of MOBAs or FPSes - both genres make for more enjoyable streams, and are breaking into Esports where dozens of players get a chance to make thousands from tournaments. It's also extremely difficult to become a professional player, but still -- there's a few dozen sponsored teams that provide an actual salary and contracts and shit.

  6. #66
    Top end guilds = 5 guilds , rest didnt , blizz dont create their game around 5-10 guilds , noone cares if a "high end" guild stopped playing stop feeding them attention.

  7. #67
    You've posted Danish Terrace twice and say Exorsus is going casual without any proof. It doesnt help the credibility of your reasoning.

  8. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by nmityosaurus View Post
    Funny. I read a post exactly like this back in WOTLK.
    If this time around raiders themselves reported reason being the burnout to grind ap/leg, TF and RNG frustration.

    What were the reason back in WoTLK ? I didn't raid back then.

    Or did u just post that to prove a point that my post is irrelevant I.E. Some guilds fall, others rise or merge. Rinse and repeat hurr, durr. Its all human factor if they fall apart or stop raiding and it always was.
    Last edited by Nephcyte; 2017-05-18 at 11:04 AM.

  9. #69
    Perhaps they've lost sight of their destiny. Perhaps we've overstimated their resolve.

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by vkpush View Post
    You've posted Danish Terrace twice and say Exorsus is going casual without any proof. It doesnt help the credibility of your reasoning.
    Thanks for pointing out Danish terrace typo.

    As for Exorsus they said it in several interviews that are not gonna try to compete for r1 race anymore since it takes way to much effort with ap grind etc.

    http://raiders-tavern.com/exorsus-di...casual-201702/

    Full interview https://www.method.gg/undisputed-t19...rsus-interview
    Last edited by Nephcyte; 2017-05-18 at 10:50 AM.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Zigrifid View Post
    Top end guilds = 5 guilds , rest didnt , blizz dont create their game around 5-10 guilds , noone cares if a "high end" guild stopped playing stop feeding them attention.
    Pretty much, yeah. Mythic progression is designed to be gone through within an entire patch, not in a marathon fashion. If a group of people decided they want to marathon it out, then so be it, but their eventual disbanding hardly impacts anything.

  12. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by Marrilaife View Post
    I'd wager it's the fact it's not so profitable anymore, sponsors moved to other "e-sports", there's only few pvers who live from streaming, rl money boosting is under higher scrutiny from Blizzard (allegedly), youtube video making also becomes less and less profitable over years, what's the incentive to treat wow like a job if there's no payment and what's the incentive to treat world first race as a sport if there are no medals or prizes.

    The attitudes shift more and more from "can we do it" towards "why should we do it and what for".

    You can win tangible prizes for being "the best team" in Overwatch, HOTS or WOW 3v3 arena pvp. WOW pve? Not much to gain there except 5 mins of fleeting fame.
    ^^ This guy is spot on... nothing more need to be said..
    The trick of selling a FFA-PvP MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  13. #73
    Herald of the Titans Dangg's Avatar
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    There were more top guild disbands than during other tiers so the state of the game likely has influence on a higher burnout rate, BUT the thing is Blizzard shouldn't design the game to accomodate to the Top 0.0001% so I don't see this as an real issue.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Shouldn't have told me, I only quoted a claim that OP made. But I'd be happy to listen to an explanation what the reward structure is and how it got broken.
    There are plenty of people who feel that Nighthold loot is unrewarding 905-910 gear for amount of effort it takes to gather players and progress bosses.

    People raid for rewards and those just don't feel rewarding enough compared to someone who does m+ 10 weekly and gets 905 every week. Which takes like 20 minutes and 0 effort. Or blast trough NM/HC Nighthold pug and get 925 TtitanForged loot while guilds spending month gathering right people and progressing Nighthold finally killing a boss and get 905-910 baseline for all that effort.

    Honestly you would get better gear ilvl wise due to Titanforge if you just spam mythics+ and it would be so much more time efficient then mythic raiding. The only exception is Tier and trinkets.

    People getting better rewards for doing easier content is unfair imo.

  15. #75
    I would like them to remove a lot of the time gates and grinding needed to raid at the top level. Something close to what was needed in tbc I feel would be a fair trade off.

    Artifact power should of been a vanity thing.

  16. #76
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephcyte View Post
    If this time around raiders themselves mentioned that partly a reason is that u need to grind ap/leg, TF issues etc.

    What were the reason back in WoTLK ? I didn't raid back then.

    Or did u just say that to prove a point that my post is irrelevant I.E. Some guilds fall, others rise or merge. Rinse and repeat hurr, durr. Its all human factor if they fall apart or stop raiding.
    Top guilds are always disbanding is the point, it's been happening for years. We're going to see more and more as time goes on regardless, most of the top players have played since Vanilla/TBC and are getting burnt out on the genre, I mean the game is over a decade old.

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradu View Post
    No, they don't need to just suck it up. They have every right to complain about a system they think is bullshit, and even quit over it if they want.
    You are acting like some is stopping them from doing that.
    Like for real......
    People that do not like the system have been gone already for months if you think that top players who don't like the system are staying around you are wrong on all fronts.

  18. #78
    Lynch me or not, I like the WF/TF/AP systems. It lets a solo casual player be gear-ready to enter Mythic raiding(the final frontier) easily or to do PvP with a slightly better equipment, or just quit until next patch. Both wow arena and wow pve are old news - nobody cares about them since the real rewards are small. The real entertainment/competition is in CSGO/Dota 2 and their massive multimillion dollar tournaments.

    Does it really matter if John from guild #32 in the world is still stuck at 901 ilevel while some other guy gets 925 DOS from lfr while afk? Or someone getting 925s from m+3? People really want to be perceived as competitive players in a game, which is 12 years old, theres no more than 2 min efame in pve and meaningless titles/money in pvp and based on the money earned by boosting services, you are better off in Mcdonalds.

    In fact, WoW is finally turning into what a real old school MMORPG is - a hardcore GRIND, which is quite ironic since Blizzard has targeted its casual playerbase with it, but there are much smarter people there making plans for WoW than the playerbase can comprehend.

  19. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by det View Post
    Sounds sensible. But it also seems to rely on the premise that you are GURANTEED ilv 920 Titanforged in mythics 5 mans and Normal / HM Nighthold, while a mythic raid in Nighthold will be guranteed no Titanforge ever....

    But I get what you say...if you can be 895-900 from WQs and the World bosses on Broken shore, then 915-920 from raiding mythic feels like you get screwed over for your effort and it is unfair
    In NH mythic u get 4 or 5 items from a boss for 20 people on a weekly cooldown. And its not 915-920 like you mentioned. Its 905-910 baseline.

    In m+ u get 3 (890) items for 5 people from 3 chests if u do +10. Its not rare at all for +10 loot to get warforged, titanforged to 910+ Since u are spamming it and getting so many items so its gonna titanforge sooner or later. You may argue that getting keys might be a problem but its honestly not, just host a boost run and carry a person. All u need is 4 good players unlike raids where u need 20.

    Hopefully 7.2.5 m+ changes may fix it a little bit where people would be more rewarded do do higher keys.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by klaps_05 View Post

    Does it really matter if John from guild #32 in the world is still stuck at 901 ilevel while some other guy gets 925 DOS from lfr while afk? Or someone getting 925s from m+3?
    Its not about John or LFR guy getting extremly lucky via RNG and getting those items. Its about mythic raiders being unable to obtain those items via progression and effort. (925)

    WF/TF should just have a cap based on difficulty you do and the system would be fine.

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