Top End guilds quitting

[Lady Dragonheart]

The only thing more boring and bland than guild drama is the people that post about how boring and bland it is.

Then you must be bored to tears from this thread, as the majority of the community thinks this way.

[durrtygoodz]

Then you must be bored to tears from this thread, as the majority of the community thinks this way.

Yeah, and you keep telling us. We get it.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Yeah, and you keep telling us. We get it.

Are you unable to view the direction of the thread or not?

[durrtygoodz]

Are you unable to view the direction of the thread or not?

Just remembered you're that 60 year old lady that always picks fights with me ZzzzZzZzZzZ

[Deleted]

Its not about the top end guilds themselves who are like top 10.

They are just the most noticeable and obvious example. This burnout and other problems affect all guilds who what to clear content before it gets nerfed or before next raid at least.

And i do realize that most of the time its just a placebo/paranoya thing thinking that extra trait or having 905 item compared to 925 is really that noticeable or makes you that much more behind if you don't get it. It's just an unconformable and frustrating feeling to play with.

It's one of those things, each individual instance makes no difference. But if 10-15 people had that little extra, it could make the difference.

Hardcore raiding has never been a long term thing though, in truth most people might be able to manage a year or two of it. Some might go longer, but for most life is never going to give you the opportunity to dedicate that much time to something with that set a schedule. That's before you add in all the other challenges that come with it, but it's long been Blizzards intention to move guilds away from how the world first race has been. Limited attempts didn't work, gating didn't satisfy anyone. All attempts at externally regulating or imposing a rule set have been circumvented, so take the shackles off. You can go at it as hard as you want, for as much marginal gain as you want.

[vaeevictiss]

Ugh, these threads come up every expansion. "Oh no XXXX guild is disbanding/quitting" and every time it ends up meaning nothing. The world is not ending and wow is not over. Its almost like people forget these players have lives outside of wow. They get older and jobs become careers. girlfriends/boyfriends become spouses and spouses become families. Not to mention people just get bored after a while, find a different game, find a different hobby, or just want to do something entirely new.

[Banard]

The guilds (correct me if i missed anyone)

Exorsus going casual
From Scratch going casual
Serenity disbanded
Piecies
Midwinter
Ðanish Terrace stopped raiding

Since Serenity is a hot topic right now i wonder what is the most common confirmed issue from those players/guilds that made them go casual or stop in general.

Is it the AP/Legendary system grind for mains, alts (switching alt to the main because better legendary has dropped.)
Which causes general burnout while chasing ap/leg goals and feeling behind and under pressure more then ever because its a race. Compared to previous exp if u play less.

Or is it the feeling of being unrewarded for doing more content and not being in control like someone who did 500 dungeons and 8 legendaries collected not having BiS legendary while some newbie getting it as his 1st one. And of course feeling unrewarded from doing mythic which only provides 900-905 gear and 910 from Guldan. While u can get 905 from weekly chest. And a much higher chance of TitanForge from spamming m+.

Or maybe the most unfair thing people getting 925 Titanforges from LFR, NM etc with 0 effort, while mythic raiders spend countless hours progressing bosses and getting lesser reward.

P.S. Do you think the fact that top guilds are quitting (and this is a blow to wow raiding community) will be a wake up call for Blizzard that their system has some serious flaws or are they just going to ignore that since this is only top end guilds problems who make 0.0001% of player base.

Update 1

As Tradu mentioned below:
Top guilds disbanding doesn't directly impact the rest of the raiding community, but the reasons for the top guilds disbanding/going casual are the same ones that have caused a lot of issues for guilds at all levels. Essentially it's not the top guilds causing it, but they're just more obvious examples of issues that exist in Legion raiding in general.

As for Exorsus they said it in several interviews that are not gonna try to compete for r1 race anymore since it takes way to much effort with ap grind etc.

http://raiders-tavern.com/exorsus-di...casual-201702/

Full interview where Exorsus mentiones issues i described. https://www.method.gg/undisputed-t19...rsus-interview

The game changed and they could not adjust so they burned out and failed. Simple as that.

From Method wow progress:

Commitment: All applicants should have a good attitude towards raiding. You will be required to dedicate yourself to min/maxing not only your main character, but also maintain and prepare multiple (5+) alts.

Attendance: During progress raids our schedule is really demanding: we raid 12-15 h/day and it's really important you understand this before even thinking about applying or poaching an officer in-game in order for us not to waste yours/ours time

.

They are not the best of the best....like look at that...the time commitment to a video game there? Not like wow is full of the $$$....yes they might get some endorsement but come on if you wanted to play video games for $$ there are lot better choices out there.

Now read those two statements again...do you think that can go on forever? These guilds are built to die with today's raiding and this is not blizzards fault but the guilds management for failing to adjust to the changing times.

I hate the AP system pre-7.2 and not happy with it now but i can see the improvement in it....but if anything good came out of it, it was to adjusted this unhealthy raiding attitude.

Those guilds that raid 2-3 nights a week for 3 hours each night that finish in the top 500 are 10000% better than these "race for the world first guilds"

Some of these top word first guilds say they are going to go casual...but there causal to a casual is fucking hardcore...and they will still finish in the top 50....and maybe...well more then likely...the raiders in these guilds....will enjoy this awesome game alot more.

[Deleted]

Those guilds that raid 2-3 nights a week for 3 hours each night that finish in the top 500 are 10000% better than these "race for the world first guilds"

pretty much this. quality over quantity. Those world first guilds may have the best ratio of time investment + skill, but in terms of pure skill, imo there are a lot of better guilds (or let's say individual players in those guilds) scattered throughout the top 500, maybe even top 1000 who just dont want or cant invest more time.

(note before someone misunderstands: just stating my opinion, it is still quite a feat of those top guilds for what they acomplish)

[durrtygoodz]

pretty much this. quality over quantity. Those world first guilds may have the best ratio of time investment + skill, but in terms of pure skill, imo there are a lot of better guilds (or let's say individual players in those guilds) scattered throughout the top 500, maybe even top 1000 who just dont want or cant invest more time.

(note before someone misunderstands: just stating my opinion, it is still quite a feat of those top guilds for what they acomplish)

Those 3 day guilds don't have to invent strategies though, which takes more time and skill than pure execution.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Just remembered you're that 60 year old lady that always picks fights with me ZzzzZzZzZzZ

I don't even know, or really care, who you are. Also, I'm not 60, or near that, either. Regardless, you're derailing the thread with your misdirection anyway.

[chronia]

Those guilds that raid 2-3 nights a week for 3 hours each night that finish in the top 500 are 10000% better than these "race for the world first guilds"

Some players sure might be better and probably will be better at individual level but just cannot put in the hours, guilds you cannot say really though untill those top 500 guilds complete the instance while writing there own WA's / Addons, not watch movies / read up on other ppls tactics, invent all strategies themselves.

Going into a instance fully prepared makes it alot easier then when you have to invent the wheel yourself.

[Bigbazz]

Raiders come and go, a guy I raided with in my old guild during WOD joined Pieces for progression in Legion. The guy was young, like he would have been a child in the "glory" days, and despite myself being one of the younger guys during the "glory" days I was probably the oldest in that guild and am one of the oldest in my current. Meanwhile most of the guys from the old days (who were older than myself) no longer play at all or are mega casuals, people come and they go.

Maybe this is slowing down, Legion certainly made WF progression more time consuming than ever with the infinite grind.. But people can't think that just because some top players stop playing that it's the end, it's a revolving door and people come in and out all the time. WF raiding is a sacrifice, you gain nothing from it in the long term and you put in everything for it... It's completely expected that almost everyone only has so much time for it before they call it a day.

Some players sure might be better and probably will be better at individual level but just cannot put in the hours, guilds you cannot say really though untill those top 500 guilds complete the instance while writing there own WA's / Addons, not watch movies / read up on other ppls tactics, invent all strategies themselves.

Going into a instance fully prepared makes it alot easier then when you have to invent the wheel yourself.

This is an interesting topic, my previous guild I mentioned above was a 2 day raiding guild in WOD, overall rank 230ish and the rank 2 worldwide for just 2 raid days during HFC. Many of those players in Legion moved to more heavy progress guilds in the top 20-50 with some in the top 10, including Pieces and Danish Terrace.

[Banard]

it alot easier then when you have to invent the wheel yourself.

These top special snowflakes are not the only one that can create strategies but i'll concede these video's/WAs give a nice boost to other guilds...but someone will always take their place.

On a different note, i hope blizzard keeps proceeding to break addons. WA has gone way to far as DBM had. To much hand holding.

[Riistov]

Happens every expansion. I remember the same discussion and threads popping up back in WoD.

For every guild that stops raiding, another will pop up to take its place. Also, many of the raiders from these guild that have disbanded or stepped back have gone on to join other world first guilds.

[Suggs]

Does ANYONE actually like the way top guilds play (14 hours of raid per day with short food breaks, months of prep with min/maxing of 7 different characters), including the people who play in them?

Not only that but everyone sits there waiting for something they cannot see spamming f4 on wowprogress.com while it happens.
So fucking lackluster its unbelievable. It was this that woke me up and thought wtf am i doing following this shit.

[Myztikrice]

They like it when they get world firsts (Exorsus), they don't like it when they don't (Serenity) and disband to try and join guilds that can get world firsts after making that investment

[potis]

pretty much this. quality over quantity. Those world first guilds may have the best ratio of time investment + skill, but in terms of pure skill, imo there are a lot of better guilds (or let's say individual players in those guilds) scattered throughout the top 500, maybe even top 1000 who just dont want or cant invest more time.

(note before someone misunderstands: just stating my opinion, it is still quite a feat of those top guilds for what they acomplish)

This is by far the stupidest shit i have ever read on mmo-champio since it started in 2006 or so by far, not only your answer, but what you quoted too.

Let me make you understand why.

"DURR HURR, TOP 500 GUILD TAKES LESS TRIES TO KILL THEN METHOD , THEY MUST BE BETTER 2 MONTHS AFTER".

Lets see, 8 weeks of mythic gear compared to 1-2 weeks /Mythic gear, just lots of split HC runs which the other guild probably did a number too.

NOT EVEN GONNA MENTION LEGION RAIDING CAUSE WE ALL KNOW HOW EASIER SHIT BECAME WITH NEW 7.2 traits.

Finding out the new stuff/tactic while going, versus WATCHING THE VIDEO AND GETTING FREE LOOT.

Do you people even have any sort of sense how raiding at that tier actually works?

Do you think their raid with 904 ilvl is the same as the raid with 914-915 item level, AND READY TACTICS, AND THE INSANE NEW TRAITS?

God the level of clueless on this forum increases bidaily.

No, a top 500 player has nothing similar to a top 5 player and its not only the time invested.

[Deleted]

Exorsus going casual
From Scratch going casual
Serenity disbanded
Piecies
Midwinter
Ðanish Terrace stopped raiding

First of all the gap between exorsus, serenity and method against all the other "top guilds" is way to high to put them in the same bracket. In legion we only had 3 guilds which were capable to get world first, all the other guilds required nearly 1 week longer to clear the instance (except EN because it was way to easy).

Exorsus told us in an interview just after the guldan world first kill that they are discussing to go casual. But if you take a look at wowprogress they are actually the best prepared guild for the next content.

Its quite unbelievable that players on that niveau during the preparation phase are quiting the guild or rather the whole game without a very very very big reason. It should be clear that "rl circumstances" are a very lame excuse for such people.

For example the fear of loosing the next race. Exorsus, Method and Serenity are burn-out-farming all day long, but at the end of the day only one of them can win.

These guilds are monitoring each other all the time. Serenity wasn't in a good shape compared to method and exorsus for the next race.

[AzazeltheRuthless]

This is by far the stupidest shit i have ever read on mmo-champio since it started in 2006 or so by far, not only your answer, but what you quoted too.

Let me make you understand why.

"DURR HURR, TOP 500 GUILD TAKES LESS TRIES TO KILL THEN METHOD , THEY MUST BE BETTER 2 MONTHS AFTER".

Lets see, 8 weeks of mythic gear compared to 1-2 weeks /Mythic gear, just lots of split HC runs which the other guild probably did a number too.

NOT EVEN GONNA MENTION LEGION RAIDING CAUSE WE ALL KNOW HOW EASIER SHIT BECAME WITH NEW 7.2 traits.

Finding out the new stuff/tactic while going, versus WATCHING THE VIDEO AND GETTING FREE LOOT.

Do you people even have any sort of sense how raiding at that tier actually works?

Do you think their raid with 904 ilvl is the same as the raid with 914-915 item level, AND READY TACTICS, AND THE INSANE NEW TRAITS?

God the level of clueless on this forum increases bidaily.

No, a top 500 player has nothing similar to a top 5 player and its not only the time invested.

You also forgot, that a lot of time they only down it after the fight has been nerfed and bug fixed. A lot of the World First guilds are dealing with broken fights and bugs, that most others couldn't overcome.

[cuafpr]

lots of these high end raiders have been playing a LOOOOONG time, its not shocking to see them have to shift now to more casual approach and still be leap years ahead of most raiders. other guild will fill the gap.