Top End guilds quitting

[Deleted]

Finding out the new stuff/tactic while going, versus WATCHING THE VIDEO AND GETTING FREE LOOT.

While I agree with a lot of your post, this point is significantly less important than it was pre-Firelands, due to the dungeon journal.

Prior to that you literally had no idea of the mechanics and needed a video for everything, now the video just lets you know how to handle it. Not saying it doesn't still help, just it's not nearly as important as it used to be.

No, a top 500 player has nothing similar to a top 5 player and its not only the time invested.

On average sure, but there are definitely SOME amazing players who don't have the time to raid at that level.

The rest of your post is pretty much correct.

[Heladys]

This is a gigantic "so what?"

Guilds come and go. They all deal with the different pressures of their times and their personal lives. Someone will still get world-first, it just won't be these people.

[tonic316]

good riddance, hardcore raiding is a relic and should be taken out back and shot. Can't wait to watch it die off like vanilla wow mechanics and ever quest garbage. I hope blizzard adds more things that these people thijnk they need to do to compete and then burn out even faster LMAO.

[BannedForViews]

In Serenity, it was just in guild issues. Stop trying to pin it on Blizzard issues. Someone rage quit because his GUILDIES pissed him off, he didn't come back, he's going somewhere else, so the guild naturally disbanded and most of their raiders are going to CONTINUE to raid, in other guilds.

It wasn't burn out, or lack of rewards. Trying to say that TF is a reasonable reason for quitting is a joke, any top raiders that upset about it, need to suck it up.

titan forge is horribly disincentivizing. It is a bad mechanic, and lower tier gear should never be allowed to be stronger than higher tier gear.

[Deleted]

Does ANYONE actually like the way top guilds play (14 hours of raid per day with short food breaks, months of prep with min/maxing of 7 different characters), including the people who play in them?

No, I'd suspect no one does, except for those few who make their living from streaming.
For everyone else that is just pure torture.

I'd actually welcome a total and complete crash of the top 100 raid scene and a return to a bit more "normal" raiding community. Right now, there's no way to compete unless you make playing WoW your real-world job.

I think Blizzard has been actively working towards killing off the top end guilds - hopefully they'll continue so that the whole thing will self-die.

Hardcore raiding can and should die. It won't be missed.

[Akka]

You mention loot being an issue.. Have you actually raided Mythic? To me it feels more like the fact you need to have a consistent roster of 20 players every single week. No less. That's what's proving a challenge for the guild I'm in, despite numerous recruiting. Just shut up with the WF and TF, sounds like a personal issue with the system, I raid all difficulties and I have no issue with how it works.

And you don't wonder if the system is not a reason why keeping 20 players motivated enough to play is so challenging ?

[Deleted]

legion is over with 7.1.5, after that u basically do the same content over over and over and over cause the increase m+ cap gear, so if u have a get a bis 925 now with m+ now, after 100 runs on brh. after the new tier u need other another 100 runs to get the same bis loot 940. And it was the same for 7.1.0.


so u basically u need to spam the same content from day 1 legion, to last day of legion. It's boring.

M+ all day to get a tf loot and when u get it u will trash it next Tier to Re-Farm it again on the same place
Like Memento 7.1.5 880 , memento 7.2 925, memento 7.2.5 memento 940+, memento 7.3 960+, memento 7.4 980+ etc


As I told legion is dead.

Put randoms numbers, 4M players? split on 3 regions, With alts and bots... must be like 200-300k active players for ea rgion.

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I

Hopefully 7.2.5 m+ changes may fix it a little bit where people would be more rewarded do do higher keys.

it's not, cause atm applied to the 7.2 u get the same 905 cap ilvl, so u get less loot, m+ are dead if they not increse loots or ilvl

with 4-5 loots on 7.2.5 on 15+ why farm all day to get less loot aon a very low % for wf/tf? the farm of m+ will die, u will push1 weekly key at 15 for geared alts and +22/24 on main and u stop here. cause is not a good time invested

[kneehidude]

You overestimate the impact of this, it's kinda normal thing, it happens all the time. And majority of playersbase doesn't really care.

Guilds break up yes. But over the last few expansions tons of high end raiding guilds have disbanded, and the number seems to increase with every passing expansion.

This is a problem. Even if you think "it's just a few players." Those players are the most dedicated. They have stuck around for years playing the game at an insane level, and now all of a sudden they don't want to anymore?

These aren't some casual players who come back for a new patch, play for a month, then unsub again, these are hardcore fans who have been subbed for years continuously.

And you think thats normal? And that Blizz has nothing to worry about?

[Deleted]

Happens every expansion. I remember the same discussion and threads popping up back in WoD.

For every guild that stops raiding, another will pop up to take its place. Also, many of the raiders from these guild that have disbanded or stepped back have gone on to join other world first guilds.

this happens from wtlk but, every exapansion has less players and probably more bot

[hulkgor]

Every expansion, and more precisely every raid tier, top guilds quit, and new guilds pop up.

It's extremely taxing competing for a world first, regardless of AP\Legendary issues. It's just... tiresome, so it's only normal players and guilds quit\give up on it after a few goes. Very few guilds keep going for so long, and even in those the player pool vastly changes throughout the years.

[potis]

You also forgot, that a lot of time they only down it after the fight has been nerfed and bug fixed. A lot of the World First guilds are dealing with broken fights and bugs, that most others couldn't overcome.

Indeed, completely forgot that part too.

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While I agree with a lot of your post, this point is significantly less important than it was pre-Firelands, due to the dungeon journal.

Prior to that you literally had no idea of the mechanics and needed a video for everything, now the video just lets you know how to handle it. Not saying it doesn't still help, just it's not nearly as important as it used to be.



On average sure, but there are definitely SOME amazing players who don't have the time to raid at that level.

The rest of your post is pretty much correct.

Same can be said with data mining since end TBC, Dungeon Journal and Data mining is why people whine about "speed" of things.

Remove both and welcome to "HOW DID YOU GET THAT, WHAT DO?"

People forget these things.

And yeah there are always golden apples in those guilds but face reality, most of those golden apples play A LOT too, they just raid less, doesnt mean they arent online during the day etc etc.

[Tatahe]

When did Exorsus go casual?

Never, OP is confused...

[Sorraxe]

How can you make a post like this and not including Paragon?

[Jastall]

''Top guilds'' disband and reform all the time. The world first race is just way too demanding for what it's worth; the same amount of skill and effort playing a game like LoL or Counter-Strike. hell even Overwatch would bring you some nice prize and sponsorship money. In WoW, what do you get for being world first? A day or two of fame, maybe a few sponsors for a limited time, but that hardly matters to you since you don't generate new content (and thus revenue) until the next tier, months away.

People can associate this with their own pet peeve with the game all they want. Reality is that burning yourself out intensively playing 14+ hours per day for little payoff isn't sustainable in the long term, no matter what Blizzard does. And since streaming progression (the horror), or ''raid tournaments'' are never going to be a thing, PvE will never net a lot of money, and so will never be worth the absurd amount of effort put in it at the highest level.

[RobertoCarlos]

Just remembered you're that 60 year old lady that always picks fights with me ZzzzZzZzZzZ

See i'm not the only one you "debate" durrty, shame. Remember when you at least tried to be civil

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Sad to see another top guild go. The world first race gets more boring every expac

[Saverem]

Can't really blame them with the new AP grind and RNG (leggo/TF) system.

It forces them to spend 18 hours a day just grinding to get Concordance on their 5 alts all-the-while praying they get the right leggos and TF drops. Where as before, they could gear up all their alts relatively easily and then play casually (rest time) until the new tier raid comes out, but now it's 24/7/52 never ending hardcore grind.


It's enough to burn ANYONE out after a few months. Hell, I only have to do it for 1 class and I'm already burned out.

[Nephcyte]

Never, OP is confused...

They said it in the interview, links in update 1.

But casual in their interpretation only means that they are not gonna be racing for world first. They are likely still to be top 20 or so.

[Onikaroshi]

They said it in the interview, links in update 1.

But casual on their level only means that they are not gonna be racing for world first. They are likely still to be top 20 or so.

They're not though, they mentioned it, maybe even thought about it, but last I heard they were streaming split runs of Mythic NH. You don't do shit like that to be top 20, you do that to fight for no. 1.

Until they come out and say "We are not participating in world first" don't count them out, they never confirmed it. They are the most prepared guild for the upcoming race.

[Jimson]

That's exactly what smart people predicted long time ago. One of long-term consequences of LFR. Players has no reason to go into proper raiding. And even less people go into top rading. So top guilds can't find anybody to replace their members.

Basically this. Participating in a top 10 (world) kill requires an obscene amount of time, like 5+ raids per week during progress, to the point that you possibly have to put your job and personal life on hold. It's a pretty big sacrifice to make IMO. And if you don't have a shot at WF, many upper-tier raiders don't see the point of trying at all... at least, not for the amount of effort that Legion requires. There's only a very tiny portion of top-tier PvE players who manage to make a living out of streaming/content creation as well.

Upper-level PvE raiding is a niche. It's kind of an anomaly in the gaming community. Skilled hardcore gamers can often make a better living out of MOBAs or FPSes - both genres make for more enjoyable streams, and are breaking into Esports where dozens of players get a chance to make thousands from tournaments. It's also extremely difficult to become a professional player, but still -- there's a few dozen sponsored teams that provide an actual salary and contracts and shit.

This forum swings from extreme to extreme so quickly it's obnoxious. Every other topic has some subtle LFR bashing because it's "not raiding" (and for the record, I agree), or it's too faceroll, or whatever, but somehow you think LFR is slowly draining the pool of WORLD FIRST raiders?

[anwon]

Same thoughts.. this is a big downfall of the game currently especially for alts