Thoughts on Tanking and Blood going into Legion (LONG)

[MagmyGeraith]

What about the change in the passive's tooltip about Blood Boil? Used to have a 37% decrease in damage, now it's gone. Is that just leftovers, or is Blood Boil getting a heavy buff?

[hasslehoof]

Question is probably stupid. But the 15% 'damange / healing' does not affect the DS healing, right? Because DS damage and DS healing are different components?

it's just a damage buff

[Tehr]

What about the change in the passive's tooltip about Blood Boil? Used to have a 37% decrease in damage, now it's gone. Is that just leftovers, or is Blood Boil getting a heavy buff?

I still see it there.

[Philondra]

I'd like to ask some advice from those of you who did the Mage Tower challenge. I can get to Kruul with no problem, but the green patch of fire he does always shreds me. I can get out of the first one with Wraith Walk, but I can't seem to get past the second. How did you deal with it?

[Deleted]

I'd like to ask some advice from those of you who did the Mage Tower challenge. I can get to Kruul with no problem, but the green patch of fire he does always shreds me. I can get out of the first one with Wraith Walk, but I can't seem to get past the second. How did you deal with it?

When I completed it I was using Aggramar + Spehuz, so getting out of the fire patch was trivial. Other than that, I basically never stopped moving (if you stand still the infernals will knock you off sooner or later) and kept kiting him near Velen orbs.

Depending on your ilvl (or your dps), you might want to Apshyxiate his first annihilate and then chain Velen orbs until you kill him, avoiding any subsequent jump, annihilate, or cast.

[v1perz53]

I've just started playing my Blood DK as an alt, almost exclusively for M+ and non-raiding stuff. Been checking guides, and one thing I've not seen good info for is what I should be doing to maximize my DPS, especially for easier M+ runs. Seems like my rotation doesn't really change much when trying to push DPS, aside from I guess not worrying about DS timing as much, and my only talent change is taking Bonestorm. I still use Marrowrend for the haste/ossuary, DS/HS to avoid rune/rp capping, and use BB to avoid capping charges, not sure what other options I have to maximize DPS aside from maybe using DnD on CD instead of just when procced for AoE? And obviously I'm using DRW and Consumption as primarily DPS abilities in these situations.

I guess let me know if I'm missing anything major, just trying to make my low M+ runs faster. Seems the other tanks I've played (even Guardian with its basically 1 button rotation) has more obvious ways to alter your rotation to get more DPS out of it, at the cost of some survivability.

[Raiz]

Don't forget Blooddrinker. But yeah, the rotation doesn't change much. Use everything on CD if you want to maximize your dps. That's it. Some legendary such as sephuz can make a better dps (since you'll have plenty of stuff to make it proc), and bracers or shoulders (don't have it so can't really comment on it).
In other words you basically did the right things. Even using DS as much as you can even while full life.

[Tehr]

I'd like to ask some advice from those of you who did the Mage Tower challenge. I can get to Kruul with no problem, but the green patch of fire he does always shreds me. I can get out of the first one with Wraith Walk, but I can't seem to get past the second. How did you deal with it?

It's dumb, but if you're mid-air (e.g. by jumping) when the fire patch appears, you don't get slowed until you land. Just watch for him to jump, and then jump sideways or something and you should be fine. Obviously you should be using Bear Tartare, and if you get a proc of that it's even easier.

Also, if you stun him (with Asphyxiate or Velen orbs) during his jump, he won't create a fire puddle. Might be a waste of resources, and since your stun is on the GCD it's also hard to time, but worth considering.

I used Bracers and Sephuz. I would never use the boots for that, you don't need that much base speed to succeed.

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Even using DS as much as you can even while full life.

I have a different thought regarding this. I'd rather save DS for when I need healing (obviously avoiding capping) so that my healer can DPS than try to squeeze out an extra ~5% damage from using it with the gold trait. Obviously the overhealing isn't as much of an issue with Souldrinker, and if you're running Sephuz in a dungeon you have more Haste and resources than you know what to do with, but I don't think dumping RP constantly is a good habit.

[Raiz]

I have a different thought regarding this. I'd rather save DS for when I need healing (obviously avoiding capping) so that my healer can DPS than try to squeeze out an extra ~5% damage from using it with the gold trait. Obviously the overhealing isn't as much of an issue with Souldrinker, and if you're running Sephuz in a dungeon you have more Haste and resources than you know what to do with, but I don't think dumping RP constantly is a good habit.

You know, sometimes, I've a hard time believing we're playing the same game. I'm constantly swimming in ressources, and that mostly without bracers + 2 sets. Are you sure you're using all your GCD ? Are we talking about Mythics dungeons ? If so, I refuse to believe you're playing it correctly.
I agree with you, it could becomes a bad habit. Either way, he's playing low mythics dungeons, he'll have plenty of ressources to use another DS.

[Tehr]

You know, sometimes, I've a hard time believing we're playing the same game. I'm constantly swimming in ressources, and that mostly without bracers + 2 sets. Are you sure you're using all your GCD ? Are we talking about Mythics dungeons ? If so, I refuse to believe you're playing it correctly.
I agree with you, it could becomes a bad habit. Either way, he's playing low mythics dungeons, he'll have plenty of ressources to use another DS.

If I'm not RP capped, and I don't need a heal, I will use an ability besides Death Strike. If I am RP capped, or will be RP capped, I will cast Death Strike. In general, I sit between 75 and 120 RP. Heart Strike hits as hard or harder than Death Strike when you're in 3+ target cleave, and Blood Boil/DnD/Consumption hit harder than that, so in M+ dungeons, Death Strike is less efficient per GCD than most of your other abilities (obviously only in cleave). That's why, unless I will overcap or if I need healing, I don't dump RP constantly into Death Strike.

[Raiz]

If I'm not RP capped, and I don't need a heal, I will use an ability besides Death Strike. If I am RP capped, or will be RP capped, I will cast Death Strike. In general, I sit between 75 and 120 RP. Heart Strike hits as hard or harder than Death Strike when you're in 3+ target cleave, and Blood Boil/DnD/Consumption hit harder than that, so in M+ dungeons, Death Strike is less efficient per GCD than most of your other abilities (obviously only in cleave). That's why, unless I will overcap or if I need healing, I don't dump RP constantly into Death Strike.

I've watched some of your stream. It truely made me believe you don't realize how many abilities you have on CD. Especially in low content which is exactly what Viperz will currently be doing. Try using consumption on CD, blood boil on CD, and blooddrinker on CD. Basically EVERYTHING on CD. I can guarantee you that : you'll be capping in ressources. Either in runes, rp or blood boil. I've seen you capping in runes while you still had consumption or blood boil up. But the later could've been for defensive purposes especially in the tank challenge one (for the eyes).

I feel like you're having a grudge against me since this whole Marrowrend's story, or now with this full life DS thing. Hopefully I'm wrong.

[Tehr]

I've watched some of your stream. It truely made me believe you don't realize how many abilities you have on CD. Especially in low content which is exactly what Viperz will currently be doing. Try using consumption on CD, blood boil on CD, and blooddrinker on CD. Basically EVERYTHING on CD. I can guarantee you that : you'll be capping in ressources. Either in runes, rp or blood boil. I've seen you capping in runes while you still had consumption or blood boil up. But the later could've been for defensive purposes especially in the tank challenge one (for the eyes).

I feel like you're having a grudge against me since this whole Marrowrend's story, or now with this full life DS thing. Hopefully I'm wrong.

I don't remember a Marrowrend thing, I rarely hold grudges, and there are very few people I sincerely dislike, and you're not one of them. I usually do use everything on CD, but I acknowledge the fact that I'm not perfect, and that I'm particularly rusty (since I've been playing mostly my Druid since we got to Star Augur a few months ago). I didn't think I was coming off as antagonistic towards you, but I apologize if it was taken that way.

I still think that it's better habit not to dump RP, which sounds to me like what you're getting at when you say "Even using DS as much as you can even while full life". I definitely recognize the fact that we're capping resources (which is one of the reasons why I think DS should be off the GCD), but I don't think that changes much considering the above facts about damage efficiency are true, regardless of my own errors in play, since your GCDs are better spent on higher-DPS abilities unless you need healing.

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On an unrelated note, I just watched the Preach Gaming video regarding Legendary Rings , and he seems to think that they will be exempt from the Two Legion Legendary max. While I think that's possible, I feel like that would just be a cop-out, because EVERYONE would use the ring (unless you really want to use two Legendary rings for whatever reason), which essentially makes the talent baseline. Why give us a Legendary Ring with a talent when you could just give us the talent and replace it in the tree?

[Tojara]

Presumably, at least in my eyes it's a way to nerf the content a couple months down the road without having to resort to number tweaks initially. Giving people a free talent in the way of a legendary is a decent way to do this, and realistically the only way to safely do this with the legendary route is a ring (or I guess a trinket).

[dcc626]

I don't remember a Marrowrend thing, I rarely hold grudges, and there are very few people I sincerely dislike, and you're not one of them. I usually do use everything on CD, but I acknowledge the fact that I'm not perfect, and that I'm particularly rusty (since I've been playing mostly my Druid since we got to Star Augur a few months ago). I didn't think I was coming off as antagonistic towards you, but I apologize if it was taken that way.

I still think that it's better habit not to dump RP, which sounds to me like what you're getting at when you say "Even using DS as much as you can even while full life". I definitely recognize the fact that we're capping resources (which is one of the reasons why I think DS should be off the GCD), but I don't think that changes much considering the above facts about damage efficiency are true, regardless of my own errors in play, since your GCDs are better spent on higher-DPS abilities unless you need healing.

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On an unrelated note, I just watched the Preach Gaming video regarding Legendary Rings , and he seems to think that they will be exempt from the Two Legion Legendary max. While I think that's possible, I feel like that would just be a cop-out, because EVERYONE would use the ring (unless you really want to use two Legendary rings for whatever reason), which essentially makes the talent baseline. Why give us a Legendary Ring with a talent when you could just give us the talent and replace it in the tree?

well, at the moment on the ptr they have the 2 legendary restriction on them like the other legendaries (in the adventure guide).

[Deleted]

On an unrelated note, I just watched the Preach Gaming video regarding Legendary Rings , and he seems to think that they will be exempt from the Two Legion Legendary max. While I think that's possible, I feel like that would just be a cop-out, because EVERYONE would use the ring (unless you really want to use two Legendary rings for whatever reason), which essentially makes the talent baseline. Why give us a Legendary Ring with a talent when you could just give us the talent and replace it in the tree?

Now I don't know about the other tanks ring, but if this proves too I would be a huge buff for us. Probably making us one of the best tanks for ToS.
Having both Rune Tap and Foul Bulwark (even in fights when we don't really need RT), while keeping any combo between bracers/shoulders/belt would be really strong, possibly TOO strong.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

So whats the general opinion about the Blood T20 bonuses? cos the 4pc seems rather weak for a 4pc overall. The 2pc is okay though a bit boring

[Zethras]

So whats the general opinion about the Blood T20 bonuses? cos the 4pc seems rather weak for a 4pc overall. The 2pc is okay though a bit boring

A 4k versatility proc is ~5% more damage/healing and 2.5% damage reduction.

Calling this weak is an insult to the weak.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

A 4k versatility proc is ~5% more damage/healing and 2.5% damage reduction.

Calling this weak is an insult to the weak.

Thats the 2pc. I said the 2pc is okay. Im talking about the "Item - Death Knight T20 Blood 4P Bonus While Gravewarden is active, the cost of your Death Strike is reduced by 5 Runic Power."

That seems rather weak for a 4pc bonus

[Zethras]

Thats the 2pc. I said the 2pc is okay. Im talking about the "Item - Death Knight T20 Blood 4P Bonus While Gravewarden is active, the cost of your Death Strike is reduced by 5 Runic Power."

That seems rather weak for a 4pc bonus

Ah, I see it's changed since I last saw it. I think that's blizzard trying to get us to try other talents besides Ossuary, which, spoiler alert, we won't, because all the other ones on that tier are trash.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

Ah, I see it's changed since I last saw it. I think that's blizzard trying to get us to try other talents besides Ossuary, which, spoiler alert, we won't, because all the other ones on that tier are trash.

Tbh, i think that Blood Tap could potentially be useful, if we have the 5rp reduction cost anyway. Though its still kinda "meh". I guess 10rp cost reduction on DS should be interesting, especially if you have the ledj legs, in which case it would allow you to drop like 5 DSs in a row, 6 if you have the bracers too.

But still, the BDK and the Vengeance tier set bonuses seem pretty boring compared to other tanks. The Bear bonuses are pretty damn strong, the Brew bonuses are decent, I this the Prot Pally ones are a bit weak, but the ProtWarr ones are strong aswell