New 90 talent: Toxic Blade?

[scrappybristol]

Man, I miss crimson tempest.

Imagine if they brought it back but now it spreads rupture with the press of a button.

[shoegazing]

What the fuck are you even on about? Your reply to my post is literally cringeworthy nonsense that has *nothing* to do with the issue at hand, let alone what I even said. Try again.

calling something "cringeworthy nonsense" without providing any sort of counter argument.... nice

my post makes perfect sense -- maybe the problem is not the design of the assassination rogue but rather the design of M+ having too much emphasis on AOE

feel free to continue to pretend not to be able to understand such a simple concept

[Verdugo]

calling something "cringeworthy nonsense" without providing any sort of counter argument.... nice

my post makes perfect sense -- maybe the problem is not the design of the assassination rogue but rather the design of M+ having too much emphasis on AOE

feel free to continue to pretend not to be able to understand such a simple concept

No one cares about PvP.

[Eazy]

why does assassination need an extremely potent AOE talent?

To be competentive with other melee DPS in raids/M+. Not exactly EXTREME POTENT AOE, but - good AoE would be nice thing to have.

when has assassination ever been known for extremely potent AOE in the past?

What's the point of that question? Does that mean Assa rogues shouldn't be good at AoE right now because they never were?

No one cares about PvP.

Well, I do. But not as much as for PvE. Would rather have nice PvE build/spec/talents than PvP ones. If my PvP gameplay is going to suffer because the PVE balance then so be it.

[shoegazing]

No one cares about PvP.

I care about PvP, therefore your post is wrong on the most basic factual level.

Nevermind the fact that it has absolutely nothing at all to do with the post that you were responding to, which was suggesting that perhaps M+ has too great an emphasis on AOE.

- - - Updated - - -

What's the point of that question? Does that mean Assa rogues shouldn't be good at AoE right now because they never were?

That's exactly the point of the question. Classes have strengths and weaknesses for a reason. Some players have been playing one character as their main for 12 years and don't want to see that character be taken in a completely different direction.

Maybe Blizzard needs to do a better job at designing some more content that allows the natural strengths of the Rogue class to shine.

It's not that I don't agree that "Rogues aren't great in M+ and this is a problem" it's just that I see plenty of reason to believe that M+ itself is the problem, not the Rogue class.

Wasn't the original intention of M+ supposed to be a more challenging experience in the tradition of Cata heroics where you had to coordinate and strategize a bit more ("ok let's sap X and trap Y, now LoS pull the caster") instead of just pulling the entire room and AOEing it down while watching Netflix on your 2nd monitor?

[iky43210]

well toxic blade will make our dmg very very good in m+, it is just a super shitty talent in raid environment.

If they release assa rogue as is, the spec is dead for raiding. Simple as that

[ymirsson]

That's exactly the point of the question. Classes have strengths and weaknesses for a reason. Some players have been playing one character as their main for 12 years and don't want to see that character be taken in a completely different direction.

Maybe the problem are neither M+ nor class changes but you are? Adapt or die. And you already chose, several times.


Also, Blizzard wants M+ to be the GRifts of D3. They sure as hell won't redesign all this. On top of that, you can coordinate and strategize mass pulls too.

[shoegazing]

well toxic blade will make our dmg very very good in m+, it is just a super shitty talent in raid environment.

If they release assa rogue as is, the spec is dead for raiding. Simple as that

mechanical changes come first, tuning is ongoing.

Maybe the problem are neither M+ nor class changes but you are? Adapt or die. And you already chose, several times.


Also, Blizzard wants M+ to be the GRifts of D3. They sure as hell won't redesign all this. On top of that, you can coordinate and strategize mass pulls too.

I'm doing just fine, and every passing build brings the Rogue class closer once again to its rightful ideal.

In fact I had a nice and lengthy conversation with the new Rogue dev recently which concluded with him giving me his work email address and encouraging me to send him Rogue feedback any time. I have already sent multiple pages and seen some of that reflected in the latest few builds.

We have been working tirelessly at taking our class back for a very long time, and we are winning, and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Maybe your best option is to go play D3 instead of WoW if that's the type of gameplay you want.

[ymirsson]

mechanical changes come first, tuning is ongoing.



I'm doing just fine, and every passing build brings the Rogue class closer once again to its rightful ideal.

In fact I had a nice and lengthy conversation with the new Rogue dev recently which concluded with him giving me his work email address and encouraging me to send him Rogue feedback any time. I have already sent multiple pages and seen some of that reflected in the latest few builds.

We have been working tirelessly at taking our class back for a very long time, and we are winning, and there is nothing you can do to stop it. Maybe your best option is to go play D3 instead of WoW if that's the type of gameplay you want.

Are you misinterpreting anything everyone says on purpose unless they praise old school sub pvp?
Anyone home?

[shoegazing]

Are you misinterpreting anything everyone says on purpose unless they praise old school sub pvp?
Anyone home?

Still salty about those old wounds, huh? If I have misinterpreted you then please feel free to clarify your intentions, otherwise have a nice day Ymirsson

[Verdugo]

Are you misinterpreting anything everyone says on purpose unless they praise old school sub pvp?
Anyone home?

I think he has delusions. He is convinced that he has some influence over development.

[shoegazing]

I think he has delusions. He is convinced that he has some influence over development.

It's not just me, and you must not spend very much time on Twitter.

[davesignal]

so ST and AOE are the only 2 niches in the game? so if some spec is good at both of those 2 things but lacks CC for instance, then every class needs to have insane levels of ST and AOE even if that class has great CC or mitigation or mobility etc etc etc?

if one class is good at something then every class needs to be good at that thing? if one class is good at 2 things then every class needs to be good at those exact 2 things?

CC has not been relevant in this game since TBC. PvP is the only place it's a concern, and I'm not going to dignify the absolute trainwreck Blizzard tries to pass off as PvP with any real consideration. WoW PvP is a joke, and the developers treat it as such (or because they treat it as such).

Try Dota 2 if you want actual balanced competition.

[ymirsson]

Still salty about those old wounds, huh? If I have misinterpreted you then please feel free to clarify your intentions, otherwise have a nice day Ymirsson

I never said anything about wanting this game to be D3. I just stated that M+ feels like GRifts. Do i need to write an addendum to every of my posts about what i did not say or are you going to use that small head of yours by yourself?

Infracted.

[shoegazing]

CC has not been relevant in this game since TBC. PvP is the only place it's a concern, and I'm not going to dignify the absolute trainwreck Blizzard tries to pass off as PvP with any real consideration. WoW PvP is a joke, and the developers treat it as such (or because they treat it as such).

Try Dota 2 if you want actual balanced competition.

Unsubstantiated blanket statement ("WoW PvP is a joke") that derails the thread and adds nothing to the discussion.

All because you are salty because one talent got changed to a design that might not be the best for hardcore PvE raiding, though casuals or PvPers might find it to be perfectly exciting or useful? No one is going to be forcing you to spec into Toxic Blade, perhaps you are not the target audience for the talent.

[davesignal]

Do you find it perfectly exciting? Are you legitimately excited to use Toxic Blade in its current state? Or are you a concern troll?

[Deleted]

Unsubstantiated blanket statement ("WoW PvP is a joke") that derails the thread and adds nothing to the discussion.

All because you are salty because one talent got changed to a design that might not be the best for hardcore PvE raiding, though casuals or PvPers might find it to be perfectly exciting or useful? No one is going to be forcing you to spec into Toxic Blade, perhaps you are not the target audience for the talent.

i agree with most of the things you say, but let be serious here. the talent tree is never thought out for PvP (not anymore at least since we have the honor talent, which has a lot of issues), the PvP devs this expansion are also clueless on how to balance this game. the new ability toxic blades is maybe really good in pvp, but its probably a not as good in pve, also this feels like they have cheated the sin rogue players when they said that they wanted to put in a AOE spell when assa rogues are probably one of the worst classes in AOE (yes, imo every class shouldnt be best in AOE and ST, but at least average is fine).

[tawnos42]

Yeah, sorry, but your "ideals" are 10 years old from Vanilla wow. There are virtually no such thing as "niches" anymore, as most classes can do everything.

The homogenization of WoW happened, and it's not something you are ever going to change. Welcome to 2017.

Assass rogues want viable AoE because we need it to be viable in higher Mythic+. If you don't agree with this, you simply don't understand Mythic+ higher keys, or you simply haven't done them. When you can bring a melee class that can do EVERYTHING better than you, which goes against Blizzards current class model, that's a problem.

So what is wrong with a class that has 3 dps specs switching to a different one for mythic+ ? I get that it wasn't all that feasible when AP made your specs wildly variant in capability but at least judging from what we have now that isn't going to be true going forward with how minimal the gains from concordance are hopefully going to be after the first level.

They have to do this homogenization for the hybrid dps specs since they don't have another option outside of switching to heal/tank but for the pure dps its quite possible to keep a niche spec as long as there is a basically functional mythic+ spec as well even if not optimal because of stat differences.

[DakonBlackblade]

So what is wrong with a class that has 3 dps specs switching to a different one for mythic+ ? I get that it wasn't all that feasible when AP made your specs wildly variant in capability but at least judging from what we have now that isn't going to be true going forward with how minimal the gains from concordance are hopefully going to be after the first level.

They have to do this homogenization for the hybrid dps specs since they don't have another option outside of switching to heal/tank but for the pure dps its quite possible to keep a niche spec as long as there is a basically functional mythic+ spec as well even if not optimal because of stat differences.

Itemization, legendaries and artifact level. Also why do rogues need to get punished for having 3 DPS specs while a Paly or a DH can do everything in one DPS spec ? If you are going to specialize each of the rogues spec in one niche and make they suck in the other areas they have to be the best on theire 1 thing by a mile or they will be at a disadvantage versus almost every other DPS class.

[iky43210]

mechanical changes come first, tuning is ongoing.

yeah I also remember being a fire mage.