Why do YOU think Healthcare is a Right and not a Privilege?

[Eazy]

...yes, if they can pay out of their own pocket.

And they get their money from?

The world is built on currency, that's entirely true, but equating that to everyone being motivated by greed is just disrespectful here...

Not only disrespectful, but just stupid.

But not going to lie, some of my friends are mostly focused on earning money.

[baskev]

Personally I think Healthcare is a privilege and not a right.

If you misuse your body you should have to deal with the consequences unless you have purchased protection in the form of insurance.

Also, in ANY civilized country, no hospital is going to turn you away if you have something life threatening that HAS to be taken care of even if you don't have insurance.

Forcing doctors to see patients under universal health care greatly diminishes a doctors will to continue practicing. It also reduces the will of any people who would be willing to undergo 10+ years of education to become a doctor because the limited ability to make good money in the profession.

I think its a right..but with allot of **** added to it.

* you can drink etc. But it will put you lower on the donor list.
* If doctor advises you to stop and you do not do it. Extra money.
* everyone should get basic stuff. If you want more stuff you pay extra fee.
* you should not be bared because of pre excisting conditions or stuff you have no control over ( cancer etc).

You should never be turned away. Insurance or not...first aid should always be given...otherwise its murder.

Your Bs about forcing doctors to see patients does not diminish it...Here we have that and we still have a shit ton of doctors. As for bs to make good money...that has nothing to do with everyone have insurance or not. It has to do with how they get paid. how much the insurance company claims as fee etc. I work in the sector and its not as you want to appear.
The 10 year education is long but needed. If there is a low amount of doctors its the problem with the image of the profession. Because last time i checked in pretty much every western country their is good health care and a good amount of doctors. I have the idea that you are talking about america...and then...yeah its a different thing. But that is more with how americans want to pay for stuff. And the government uses taxes then with the insurance it self.

[stabetha]

I like how you compared something that saves lives to something that's built to end them. Totally reasonably really, it's like comparing the right to breath vs the right to suffocate.

I'm not, I'm comparing one right to an other. if you think having a right to something means the state should pay for then that should go for all rights

[hyphnos]

No I don't. Our government's track record speaks for itself

Which are better? Which have better outcomes? Let's discuss each individually.

It is a well known fact that employers pay part of employees health care costs. So what?

And since there aren't enough medical resources available, that means health care rationing. I am very happy with my level of health care and would have to pay extra for private medical services, outside of government control, to keep that level of excellence.

If you want to talk specifics, then go ahead and document how the US government has never spent a dollar to accomplish anything worthwhile and while you're looking up your stupid examples of $500 toilet seats and bullshit distractions like that, go ahead and look up the administrative costs of social security and medicare and a zillion other things that actually matter and see how those compare to private insurance.

Well, which is better. If you go by life expectancy, 30 countries are better so which one would you like to talk about. Pick another metric regarding health care - be it percent of population covered, number of people financially ruined by medical expenses, infant mortality, spending per capita and you will the US is at the top of exactly one of those. SPENDING.

So what you are asserting without evidence is that the US government cannot do what every other industrialized country has done because of your massive "feeling" that the government can't do anything effectively. Is it your contention that somehow magically every country with single payer has a much better government than the US? Or are you just conjuring nonsense to justify your notion that because you can find examples of inefficiencies in the US government that it should therefore do nothing.

If that's the case, then do you support the government spending a trillion dollars a year on defense? Why don't we just get some "private defense insurance" to do it? I'm sure it would save us tons of money..

The simple fact of the matter is you don't know what you're talking about, can't be bothered to look up simple facts and proceed from the made up assumption that a system that definitely "wastes" 15 to 20% of it's health care spending on profit for private companies has to be more efficient than of the single payer models from around the world in countries we could adopt because you personally believe that the US government can't do anything and ignore any and all evidence to the contrary.

[Tico]

In my opinion, this shouldn't even be a question.
It should be a basic right. Why? The society, especially in a technologic/scientific aspect got to a level where this could be easily affordable if outdated economic/social structures (that we have now) were not distorted by greed. Greed is now the biggest problem of the modern world. Not only MDs, politicians, business owners are affected by it. Everyone. (Of course, except the ones who are not. But now I am talking in a general way.)

[FlatBootyJudy]

Personally I think Healthcare is a privilege and not a right.

If you misuse your body you should have to deal with the consequences unless you have purchased protection in the form of insurance.

Also, in ANY civilized country, no hospital is going to turn you away if you have something life threatening that HAS to be taken care of even if you don't have insurance.

Forcing doctors to see patients under universal health care greatly diminishes a doctors will to continue practicing. It also reduces the will of any people who would be willing to undergo 10+ years of education to become a doctor because the limited ability to make good money in the profession.

I believe it's a right, everyone should help each other out.

[Deleted]

Does ideological talk whether it's a 'right' or not even matter? It seem to me that it matters much more whether it's more practical or not?

I.e. I think majority of people can agree that it's better when government builds roads, highways and generally controlls traffic, but who does even talk about 'right to highways' or whatever?

[petej0]

Insurance also acts as a negotiator to keep costs down. Yes I completely agree with you that we need a way to keep costs down. I believe opening up insurance markets at the national level instead of at the state level and allowing competition would help do this.

Competition can only bring prices down so much. You still have to pay the middle man to handle payments and lets face it they are in business to make a profit. So they either charge higher prices or limit access to care to make those profits. Government wont have that problem. Government can say, "this is how much we are paying for this procedure, take it or leave it" just like they do with Medicare and Medicaid.

I don't believe our centralized government is cost effective at anything. If you believe the government can take the place of insurance companies, then I suggest you look at the success of government programs and tell me how many times costs went down vs spiraled out of control?

That is a legit concern, one we can tackle after we give everyone care.

Health care costs under Obamacare are ballooning and insurers are leaving the market because they can't afford to offer coverage.

Costs have gone up under ACA because of the conditions of the ACA. Not denying coverage, keeping people on parent plans etc... That is why Insurance is not a good model for paying for health care. As Chris Rock said, Insurance should be called "In case shit ..." well, with Health a person is inevitably going to use it, so it isnt a good model. Thats like having Gas Insurance for your car.

The government wouldn't have to worry about this, of course, because they would just raise taxes and/or increase our national debt

I agree, which is why we need to have an honest conversation about controlling costs.

[Reachie10]

What is the argument for not giving everyone healthcare? I haven't heard one logical argument for not giving people healthcare, minus "we will go broke."

If you really believe that every citizen of this country should not receive healthcare, and rather die on the street, that's very sad and you need help.

[Kolbjorn]

Insurance also acts as a negotiator to keep costs down. Yes I completely agree with you that we need a way to keep costs down. I believe opening up insurance markets at the national level instead of at the state level and allowing competition would help do this.

Actually, insurance company profits in the U.S. are based on a percentage of total health care costs. They are incentivized to increase spending, not decrease.

[Halyon]

And they get their money from?

Savings as just one example, from previous work, inheritance etc.

Not only disrespectful, but just stupid.

Pretending that there are people not solely motivated by greed as well...

But not going to lie, some of my friends are mostly focused on earning money.

So? Anecdotes doesn't prove a point.

[Krille]

I mean, the good me says that healthcare is a right because no man or woman should go bankrupt because they got sick/injured. The bad me says that it's a privilege because you earn your own healthcare. If you can't sustain enough money to even take care of your own health you're probably a waste to society and your death is probably a good thing to society as a whole. The planet needs less humans anyway.

[Misuteri]

Its a right. Lets get real here.

Really?

Do I have a right to your education, work and skills?

[Moshots]

The Problem is the question in america is not whether healthcare is a right.....

Its whether Health INSURANCE in its current privatized state is....

The Definition of Insurance is that you pay for the chance something happened... Prexisting conditions need to be able to be taken into account in this..... You can't take out a life insurance policy on someone who died yesterday.. just like if you chose to not pay for insurance and get cancer then you shouldn't be able to cry that you don't have it...


Now as to Healthcare.. Right now in the US a ER cannot not treat you...... granted you will get a huge bill but if anything Healthcare needs to become cheaper by having the goverment target Big Pharma who jack up prices... and doctors that want to drive bentleys....

[Wyrt]

Really?

Do I have a right to your education, work and skills?

Um, yes, people have a right to public education.

[Zan15]

Actually, insurance company profits in the U.S. are based on a percentage of total health care costs. They are incentivized to increase spending, not decrease.

No their profits are based on what is left over after total healthcare cost. Total healthcare cost is a ? till it actually happens, the best the health insurance company can do is estimate how much and try to price above that total cost.


there have been Quarters and years where these insurance companies have seen medical loss ratios exceed 100% thanks to insane flu outbreaks

its much more complicated then "hey we get to keep 5%"

[Captain N]

Um, yes, people have a right to public education.

And through that public education the skills needed to find meaningful work with sustainable pay.

[Zan15]

Not a valid comparison. First of all only people who want to own a car have to buy car insurance, and secondly, nobody gets tax money from the government (subsidies) to pay for their car isurance

sure i get to write off the cost of insurance on my car every year since i claim it as a company car.

Yummy tax money for my car insurance

Also i think you forget about tax breaks for hybrids. that 7500 bucks can be used to pay for your insurance.

[Krille]

Americas biggest issue isn't that healthcare isn't "free" or that the insurance companies take ludicrous fees. But it's the fact that America has an insane amount of citizens that does fuck-all to society and earns close to nothing. The gap between the rich and poor is so wide that you could fit half the world in it. The whole western world struggles with this, but not even close to the levels of USA. I visited NY for 2 weeks just this autumn and saw more people sleeping in the streets in 5 mins than i've seen in my whole life. Then slap a healthcare system catered to the rich on top of that, and what do you get? A fucking mess where anyone without a steady job can't get healthcare because it's too expensive.

[yetgdhfgh]

What is a right? What does that mean exactly?

Why is having a military to protect you a right but healthcare not?

Lets be real money means nothing its just paper and numbers on a computer screen and government is just what we chimps put in to stop us from tearing ourselves apart!

If self preservation is an instinct that makes us want to be part of society why do we put off the very thing that can help us IE Healthcare? We are quite happy to spend 600 billion dollars on self preservation except that whole fascade is just bullshit in the days of nuclear weapons!.

Lets be real every western society has healthcare for all except one and the reason for that society doesnt have is because of MONEY and nothing else!