Do you think there is something hidden about Comas?

[yetgdhfgh]

Because you (seem to) believe that we've been around for billions of years.
Or that you (seem to) believe that humans 'walked out of the ocean'
Or that you (seem to) not understand the explanations already given.
Or that you (seem to) not understand the very -very- basics of evolution.

No i didnt
yes we did we evolved from the animals that came out of the oceans
did i?
and how so?

[chazus]

My cat sleeps 18 hours a day what can justify that evolutionary wise?

Cats, like most predators, sleep most of the day and hunt at night. Being carnivores, it's effectively in their genes to do so. They sleep a large portion of the day, and the part they're awake is often high energy.

Think of it this way, if you worked a job that required you to go from running to sprinting constantly, you'd probably only have that job for a handful of hours a day, and sleep the rest of it.

- - - Updated - - -

No i didnt

it seems wieird to me after all these billions of years we STILL need to sleep.

Yes, you did.

yes we did we evolved from the animals that came out of the oceans

Not... really. We didn't just suddenly turn into bipedal monkeys after popping out of the ocean. There's been about 400 million years of changes from then til now.

did i?

Since you kept asking the same questions after it was explained, yes.

and how so?

Read above.

[yetgdhfgh]

Cats, like most predators, sleep most of the day and hunt at night. Being carnivores, it's effectively in their genes to do so. They sleep a large portion of the day, and the part they're awake is often high energy.

Think of it this way, if you worked a job that required you to go from running to sprinting constantly, you'd probably only have that job for a handful of hours a day, and sleep the rest of it.

Why does a cat sleep that long? Did its ancestors? or was it becuase of human interaction?

Iam just gonna make this point and you can call me all the names under the sun cause clearly i have upset so many people

All i asked was why did sleep survive evolution? Sleeping is a handicap in the wild cause it leaves yourself open to attack. Yes your cells can renew etc but after all these billions of years it seems sleep still survives when logically it shouldnt.

[derpkitteh]

My cat sleeps 18 hours a day what can justify that evolutionary wise?

a cat is a solo, majority nocturnal predator.

when they hunt, their energy expenditure is high because they go for overpowering ambushes. when they strike, they put their all into it to bring down the prey. that uses that stored up energy in large bursts.

that's why if a cat were the same size as a dog, it would be stronger than the dog.

like, they need to preserve as much of that energy as possible when they aren't likely to be hunting.

[yetgdhfgh]

.

I know we just didnt suddenly turn into monkey did i ever make that point?

NO you didnt explain it

[chazus]

Why does a cat sleep that long? Did its ancestors? or was it becuase of human interaction?

It's a predator thing, as well as ancestors. Most predators function the same way, big cats in particular. "Cats" (as in domesticated) are connected by blood to those species. The further you move from the bloodline, the less of those tendencies you see. That's why if you want to buy a 'jungle cat' like a savannah or lynx, most states require a license, and it be bred to at least an "F4" level, or 4 generations from the actual wild animal, to breed out some of the feral animal traits.

All i asked was why did sleep survive evolution? Sleeping is a handicap in the wild cause it leaves yourself open to attack. Yes your cells can renew etc but after all these billions of years it seems sleep still survives when logically it shouldnt.

It is required. Thats why. Nature struck a balance and that was the most effective means. If we didn't sleep, we'd die. If we didn't NEED sleep, predators would simply kill all the food and then die. Sleep is the most efficient system of the body repairing itself and the mind retaining sanity. It is also a means of existing in a 'low energy' state. If you were awake all the time, you'd be burning a lot more energy. Animals need to sleep to conserve energy until they feed again.

I know we just didnt suddenly turn into monkey did i ever make that point?

You DID say 'we walked out of the ocean not needing gills'. We didn't. A very, very distant salamander ancestor did.

[yetgdhfgh]

It is required. Thats why. Nature struck a balance and that was the most effective means. If we didn't sleep, we'd die. If we didn't NEED sleep, predators would simply kill all the food and then die. Sleep is the most efficient system of the body repairing itself and the mind retaining sanity.

Thing is why couldnt the body just repair itself while conscious? Why did evolution think oh lets repair while they are at there most vunerable IE asleep! Wouldnt it be more advantageous to just let the body repair itself all the time? Why did evolution say oh for you to repair you need to go into some weird state leaving you open to attack!

Thats my point yes it doesnt have a real answer cause there is no real answer to give Even scientists to this day still dont know WHY we do it yes they know the body needs to repair but why cant the body just repair all the time?

- - - Updated - - -

You DID say 'we walked out of the ocean not needing gills'. We didn't. A very, very distant salamander ancestor did.

You know what i meant! That was our distant ancestor that we evolved from.

Anyway this thread is a little too hardcore for me iam gonna go into Politics to see if there is a nice trump thread i can go into!

[chazus]

Thing is why couldnt the body just repair itself while conscious? Why did evolution think oh lets repair while they are at there most vunerable IE asleep! Wouldnt it be more advantageous to just let the body repair itself all the time? Why did evolution say oh for you to repair you need to go into some weird state leaving you open to attack!

Thats my point yes it doesnt have a real answer cause there is no real answer to give Even scientists to this day still dont know WHY we do it yes they know the body needs to repair but why cant the body just repair all the time?

Yes, we do. Scientists understand it just fine. We can't/don't do that while we're awake because the body is doing everything else we do while awake. It also CAN'T, for that matter. Your body cannot do the repair processes while in motion and in a high energy state (awake). When asleep, the body focuses more energy towards getting those things done.

It's (while not exactly) a similar reason why a bone needs a splint/cast to heal. It can't just 'heal itself' while moving about and doing stuff. This is a VERY loose analogy, but the idea is the same. We sleep so that the body stops doing all the 'awake stuff' and can focus on just that.

You know what i meant! That was our distant ancestor that we evolved from

I honestly didn't know what you meant, due to the truckload of other fallacies you were presenting.

[yetgdhfgh]

I honestly didn't know what you meant, due to the truckload of other fallacies you were presenting.

What truckload of fallacies or is that a very hyperbolic statement!

[chazus]

What truckload of fallacies or is that a very hyperbolic statement!

I literally quoted most of them earlier in the thread. I don't see the need to requote things in the same thread.

[yetgdhfgh]

I literally quoted most of them earlier in the thread. I don't see the need to requote things in the same thread.

No you didnt

Well we can go back and forth if we like

All my point was 'why did sleep survive evolution' and you made your point and i made mine.

Your a mod so you can ban me if you like

[Surfd]

All i asked was why did sleep survive evolution? Sleeping is a handicap in the wild cause it leaves yourself open to attack. Yes your cells can renew etc but after all these billions of years it seems sleep still survives when logically it shouldnt.

Evolution does not need to be inherently logical, by human standards. All it cares about is what works. Sleep survived because everything else didn't. The end.

I mean, the alternative to sleep is that you pretty much go bugfuck insane after only a handfull of days without it, and being batshit crazy is generally not a good way to stay alive.

[chazus]

All my point was 'why did sleep survive evolution' and you made your point and i made mine.

Your a mod so you can ban me if you like

Not sure what banning has to do with anything O_o

You didn't really make a point. You just kept asking 'why' with no reasons not to. (In fact, the vulnerability of sleep is in evolutions favor). That said, regardless of what I say, or what you think, you COULD just research it. There are hundreds of thousands of articles about why we need sleep, and why its part of evolution. Seriously. Just google it and find out for yourself if you don't believe everyone here.

That's the thing... If you are convinced of something, and unwilling to accept what others tell you, then there's no point in asking, is there? Saying "Why does this happen" and then responding "I don't believe that" is sort of a lesson in futility.

- - - Updated - - -

Sleep survived because everything else didn't. The end.

In so few words, this.

It's not that evolution 'didnt weed sleep out', but rather sleep proved to be the most effective way for creatures to survive.

The alternative is that they simply die. The body requires it, just as it requires air. Why haven't we 'evolutioned' out of breathing, or eating?

[Charge me Doctor]

motherfuckers go on DMT trips and speak latin, who the fuck knows what causes that shit.

our brains are essentially a computer. the coma is a crash and attempted reboot i guess. problem with a biological computer though, if it doesn't reboot, it dies.

Oversimplification in its finest. Had many laughs. Thanks.

To anyone who happen to read this - our brains are not essentially a computer, and person who says that they are should get proper education

- - - Updated - - -

So going offline so a predator can kill you is beneficial? Evolution does things for a reason and trust me that doesnt sound beneficial.

Well you either die, or recover, or get eaten while recovering. Guess who survive in these cases and who reproduces afterward.

- - - Updated - - -

it was a show about a guy that's trying to create artificial brains. it makes sense to me, we process and store incoming data and use our other bodily functions to pass that data to others. we're capable of massive storage of information.

This makes me cringe

[Aggrophobic]

My cat sleeps 18 hours a day what can justify that evolutionary wise?

Did you really think this one through befor you posted?

[LimunFTW]

Ask yourself why do we sleep?

Why does our bodies need to go offline for hours and hours when evolutionary speaking it makes no sense? But most animals does it!

Let me try to explain very slowly and progressively, since there are many mistakes in your reasoning.
Firstly, let me say that forms of sleep are present in all types of life. Let me start from the beginning. Many bacteria, simple cell organisms, and such, they have cycles of being. They have high and low energy (consumption) states, and not one medium state in order to maximize the effect of the state. Doing so, when they are active, they have much more possibilities. It is just like that. They preserve energy, so they can spend more when needed.
Also, plants, fungi, etc. also have energy phases, but mostly different than mammals. For example, trees stop growing and lose their leaves during winter to protect them from the cold, because the leaves and flowers contain much water and if they froze it would compromise the trees life. Similar with other "plant life". Also, there are animals which have similar kinds of protection. I learned in my school about a type of frog that completely freezes during winter just to continue life when it thaws. Also, most bears sleep during winter when they don't have enough ways to provide food, so they spend it in a cave in a low energy consuming state.
Now, I hope you understand that sleep didn't just happen as a weakness, but was integral part of life to increase its potency.
Now, to move to evolution. Evolution is a process process mostly done by mutation. Mutations happen when DNA replicators make a mistake in replicating your genetic material and cause something in your body to happen. It can kill you, it can leave you handicapped, it can change your hair color, it can even have no visible effect on you. These mutations are what drive evolution. To give you an example, scientists believe that polar bears were not always white, and that they were black/brown at the beginning. Then, once, in a bear, in his DNA, while replicating the part of code that decides the color of his fur, the nucleus made a mistake and arranged it so the bear had much lighter fur. By doing so, the bear was much more efficient at hunting as animals who were used to hiding from bears didn't expect something like that and were not prepared for that change. After that, that bear was much stronger than others because it could feed more efficiently and probably dominated other bears. By doing so, it produced a lot of offspring and in 50 generations, the number of light furred bears was quite large. Now, if something like that happened to the part of your DNA which regulates hormones which are used for sleep, the outcome would be much more bad than good. Animals are used to sleeping and try to find the most efficient and safe way to do so, so being awake more would not be enough of a positive thing compared to the downsides from the brain, body, skeleton tissue damage caused by not sleeping enough. You would live less, resulting in less possibility to create offspring and thus, less possibility for your branch of evolution to expand.
It is only in recent times (last 50-100 years) that you would actually gain benefit as a human who sleeps less than other as you would have more time to improve as a person and gain more knowledge and information, while today's medicine would help you with problems caused by the damage inflicted to your body from not sleeping enough. And I hope you know that evolutionary changes take as much as hundreds of thousand of years to be noticeable.

Edit: To make things clear, the bear didn't just one day change the color of the fur, I was referring to the process during his mama-bear pregnancy, a mistake happening during the genetic material transfer.

[Independent voter]

Sometimes doctors induce coma in patients, I don't know why. I think they do it when there is some brain damage so maybe comas are a bodies method of defense?

[chazus]

Sometimes doctors induce coma in patients, I don't know why. I think they do it when there is some brain damage so maybe comas are a bodies method of defense?

Yes and no.

Medically induced comas are a very specific thing, and it's been studied in a fashion that we know if we do X thing (in this case something like administering propofol), then we get Y result, which is a coma. There are many types of comas, caused by different things. In this case, we have a specific thing that we know works as anesthesia.

When you go into this type of coma, just like sleeping, your blood flow changes. The idea is that work can be done on the brain in this low energy, low blood flow state to try to repair damage without the body reacting. It also encourages the healing process when the brain enters a low energy state, without significant blood flow. Even if no work is being done (i.e. surgery), an induced coma can promote recovery. But if you're in a situation where your head took an injury that this is needed, you're already in bad shape. People don't always recover from this, and it has risks.

Again, comas are not a thing a body does for a reason. You faint because of a nervous system or blood flow issue. Fainting itself is not a mechanism your body does. It's a result of something else. A coma is a result of something else, be it trauma, blood loss, or some other issue.

[Thoughtful Trolli]

My favorite anecdote was about how they could only revive the voice actor of Bugs Bunny by calling him Bugs Bunny, because that was who he identified as during his coma.

From a strictly logical point of view, it's probably a case of only bad situations put people there, and their biological functions continue in an effort to survive. This would mean there's likely no point at which your body would say "If I go into a coma NOW, I can save *my life* but it has to be done NOW!" and then making the *choice* to go into a coma. That probably is not the case.

Something you might want to consider, that I've always found fascinating, is how when you've suffered brain or head injury, you're NOT supposed to go to sleep. You want to stay awake, to avoid slipping into a coma. This suggest being awake is more preferential than being in a coma.

For some medical surgery, they purposefully drug a person into a drug-induced coma. We should presume that this has benefits outside of generic anesthetic. There might be answers researching that.


As for sleep, here's my question; I know studies have shown people awoken during REM have the most vivid dreams, but I've deduced that we can ONLY *have* dreams by waking during REM. If you're awoken at any other stage, I don't believe you can remember having a dream. This also means that if you're dreaming, you MUST BE WAKING UP SOON. If you're NOT about to wake up, you wouldn't even *be dreaming* to begin with.

Yet somehow no one else believes this? Makes perfect sense to me. It's just mildly unnerving to think this means our ability to see real life means we're about to wake up.

[Aucald]

If you think the human mind as a computer analogy, then the stream of consciousness is a high-priority and highly resource-intensive program running on your organic hardware. If the hardware is compromised in some way, that program is one of the first to get taken offline either because there aren't enough resources to run it or the hardware on which it depends has been compromised. A coma is just the medical way of saying consciousness has been suspended - it may resume once the hardware of the body is repaired enough to bring it back up or whenever critical resources are freed up again. Lasting damage can corrupt the program, or cause it to run in a sub-optimal manner, resulting in a variety of strange outcomes.