Rank 52 - Concordance of the Legionfall - Not a huge buff?

[Feuerbart]

When you are doing 900k dps, and then get an increase of 15k, that means your damage increased by ~1.7%. Which would be in the lower half of your estimated 1-4% per item. So yes, it means a single item upgrade might be better than the proc.

You do realise that 1,7% total is much more then 1-4% on one item? That Item is not 1% total better but the new item i a 1% increase compared to the old item. So it´s 1% from 1/15th of your items or about 0.0x% total.

[Delaios]

No, first reach the 52th rank, then go for offspecs. It's a descent dps increase

What? It's only a DPS increase when descending?

[Puri]

You do realise that 1,7% total is much more then 1-4% on one item? That Item is not 1% total better but the new item i a 1% increase compared to the old item. So it´s 1% from 1/15th of your items or about 0.0x% total.

Actually I don't use pawn, so I don't know what it shows. When it only increases the damage by 1-4% per slot than I would not even call it an upgrade.
But what I know is that if I replace 890 wrists with 905 wrists (with the same stats, it really is just an itemlevel upgrade) my hunter sims 9k better, which would be an overall increase of 1.2%. So my point still stands that upgrading a single item within realistical 10-20 itemlevel will grant a higher bonus than the trait.

[KaPe]

You do realise that 1,7% total is much more then 1-4% on one item? That Item is not 1% total better but the new item i a 1% increase compared to the old item. So it´s 1% from 1/15th of your items or about 0.0x% total.

Item levels do not work that way... What you're describing here is a linear increase of stats, which isn't true. Every single item level is 1% improvement over a previous one, so going 5 item levels is more than 5% increase it its power. And considering that 5ilvls is barely an upgrade, the actual numbers are usually higher.

Either way, Concordance is comparable to getting ~10-15 ilvl upgrade to a single item, depending on slot in question. Pretty minimal.

[Saroc]

What? It's only a DPS increase when descending?

OP DH gliding strikes again.

[Deleted]

Either way, Concordance is comparable to getting ~10-15 ilvl upgrade to a single item, depending on slot in question. Pretty minimal.

Does it depend on your spec? I know it gives 2000 main stat, but for example:

- I'm a 907 ilevel Arcane mage. I have 50,037 int. Concordance is a 3.4% buff to my main stat.
- My GM is a 908 ilevel BM hunter. He has 34,981 agi. Concordance is a 5.7% buff to his main stat.

[Puri]

Does it depend on your spec? I know it gives 2000 main stat, but for example:

- I'm a 907 ilevel Arcane mage. I have 50,037 int. Concordance is a 3.4% buff to my main stat.
- My GM is a 908 ilevel BM hunter. He has 34,981 agi. Concordance is a 5.7% buff to his main stat.

Obviously it depends on your spec. And you cannot simply compare two classes main stats so easily, as casters get increasing int on their weapon, while non-casters get increasing weapon damage.
But leaving everything as it is right now, you can imagine getting a chest that has 500 more int for the mage or agi for the hunter. This should roughly result in the same output increase, or else the general itemlevel scaling and hence balance would be differently for the classes (which it definitely is, the questions is how much they diverge).

[Tradu]

Does it depend on your spec? I know it gives 2000 main stat, but for example:

- I'm a 907 ilevel Arcane mage. I have 50,037 int. Concordance is a 3.4% buff to my main stat.
- My GM is a 908 ilevel BM hunter. He has 34,981 agi. Concordance is a 5.7% buff to his main stat.

Keep in mind that a huge part of your intellect is essentially your "weapon damage" or spellpower, so it's not directly comparable like that.

[Sting]

I'll probably grind my main weapon to trait 70. At current AK levels I feel like getting another 3 ranks orso is somewhat doable, add another 15 levels because of 15 extra AK and there you go. Not sure what I'll do after that, cba leveling offspecs. Finally time for something other than AP farming I guess.

[Xires]

THey won't increase AK at 7.2.5, you won't even have maxed out the current cap by then.

No, they have achieved their goal: a balanced playing field. All but the most casual players will have 52 points by the time ToS releases, any serious raider will have 52 points in all specs they play. Any points beyond 52 are largely negligible especially early on in ToS.

in 7.3 they will increase it again, and presumably add more traits too again, as a way to nerf ToS halfway through the tier, just like in NH.

As a Mage...there's literally no reason to have all 3 specs at 52 right now...to hell with that AP grind and it just isn't necessary. Any serious Mage raider will have atleast 52 points into Frost by ToS...nothing else really matters after that.

[Evilmoo]

IDK how it is about dps but 53 points that give me my 2200 verst buff is a small but useful proc in my tank damage / mitigation, however i'll finish 54th point (i have somewheere 200 mil left) and will put all remaining ap into ret weapon to boost it from 39 to 52.

[ONCHEhap]

It's a lot more worth it as a tank since it gives you also 0,5% damage and 0,75% stamina per rank of Legionfall,but if you're nottrying to min max it's still not really worth farming actively
get it on all your specs then it'll just come passively

[Tradu]

It's a lot more worth it as a tank since it gives you also 0,5% damage and 0,75% stamina per rank of Legionfall,but if you're nottrying to min max it's still not really worth farming actively
get it on all your specs then it'll just come passively

You don't get 0.5% damage and 0.75% stamina per point. It massively diminishes past the first point of Concordance.

[Rotted]

So 15k dps is nothing now? That´s 900k damage a minute. Most single updates you can get in a raid are much less but still many people obsess about those.

Just for the sake of math let´s say you have 15 items. So your 900k dps is 60k per item on average. So you would need an itemupgrade do be 125% the worth of your equipped item to be worth as much as concordance. Most of the time the upgrade on my items as shown by pawn is lower then 10% mostyl 1-4%.

I wouldn´t call concordance huge but it definitely was felt in my fist raid with it.

Not to mention once each DPS in your team unlocks it

[Evilmoo]

You don't get 0.5% damage and 0.75% stamina per point. It massively diminishes past the first point of Concordance.

even if it was 0,75% that is 47k hp for my current HP pool, not even a single hit from a boss or a second in a M+ pull.

[Arainie]

What I don't understand is all the randoms (not expressly in this thread just yet) who are so adamant that "AP grinding is no longer necessary" etc etc etc since Concordance is so weak etc.

Yeah. It is when the difference is 3-4 points vs 0 points.

When the months drag on, and the AP knowledge cap's in place for a while, try saying that then, when you're competing against people with 30+ points in Concordance and you're still on 10. The difference will be massive, and the time spent to get it to that stage will be extraordinary. And we'll have the same problem we did earlier, where people will be shunned if they haven't partaken in the colossal grind to get to that level.

It's not rocket science or advanced mathematics; just people are, for the most part, very short-sighted.

Actually, every point after concordance is worth less in terms of a relative DPS increase. In order to simplify let's ignore all randomness and simply state that you have 37k str/agi in mythic raiding gear (for int users it's around 50k, assuming around 910 ilvl). Let's also assume that Concordance has a 25% uptime and ignore trinket/cooldowns that improve or stack with it. Concordance in itself will then be a (2k/37k)*0.25=1.35% dps buff. Each successive point adds 200 mainstat, and I've also listed the increase in proc strength relative to the previous point:

1: 1.35%
2: 1.49% ~10% increase
3: 1.62% ~9% increase
...
30: 5.27%
31: 5.40% ~2.6% increase
32: 5.54% ~2.5% increase
...
49: 7.84%
50: 7.97% ~1.7% increase

All in all you can see that investing 50 points on Concordance is going to net you somewhere around an 8% dps increase with current stats in simplified terms (more with good CD usage, less with bad RNG), but the later points will give a much smaller relative DPS increase than the previous point (even if they give the same DPS increase in absolute numbers). With ToS stats the DPS increase will be a fair bit lower, perhaps 5-6% due to an increase in mainstat. Another interesting point is that casters have a lot more Int than melee/hunters have str/agi, resulting in a weaker buff.

Int increase:
1: 1%
30: 3.9%
50: 5.9%

[Tradu]

even if it was 0,75% that is 47k hp for my current HP pool, not even a single hit from a boss or a second in a M+ pull.

0.75% starts adding up quite quickly, though, which is what happened with the old infinite trait, and that's why they made it diminish heavily.

[Puri]

You don't get 0.5% damage and 0.75% stamina per point. It massively diminishes past the first point of Concordance.

Of course you do. It's what you get for every single trait in your weapon. The (tank's versatility) proc is what has huge diminishes.

[Tradu]

Of course you do. It's what you get for every single trait in your weapon. The (tank's versatility) proc is what has huge diminishes.

No, you don't. You did from the old infinite trait, but they specifically changed it for the new one, because especially the tank per-trait passive is extremely powerful, meaning Concordance points would be super important rather than more or less irrelevant. The proc has no DR past the 2nd point(first point being 10x as high as the 2nd and any further point), the gain stays the same in terms of rating, the relative strength diminishes, but that's not what DR means in this context.

[Puri]

No, you don't. You did from the old infinite trait, but they specifically changed it for the new one, because especially the tank per-trait passive is extremely powerful, meaning Concordance points would be super important rather than more or less irrelevant. The proc has no DR past the 2nd point(first point being 10x as high as the 2nd and any further point), the gain stays the same in terms of rating, the relative strength diminishes, but that's not what DR means in this context.

You seem to be right, no one seems to know the exact formula yet, but the second trait after 52 seems to give about 0.1% health for dps classes rendering it just as weak as the proc itself.