RIP double Ice Lance?

[antelope591]

my problem with double ice lance, and the reason im glad to see it go, is that it was just clunky and inconsistent. it obviously isnt intended as an actual class mechanic otherwise it would work 100% of the time without all the stupid range/haste level mental calculations. and even then 3 or 4 times out of 10 it just doesnt work anyway, which makes it a dps loss. and then it works even less often if you have bad ping or fps. and there are a lot of bosses where it just doesnt work period, maybe like 1 in 10 times, like krosus. i dont personally find it fun to do. i mean, its fun when it works, but its soul crushing when it doesnt.

It works 100% of the time if you run towards the boss when u cast, even on Krosus

[kheath812]

It works 100% of the time if you run towards the boss when u cast, even on Krosus

i know how double il works and no it doesnt.

[Helldragon]

i know how double il works and no it doesnt.

apparently you do not know, antelope591 is right you just have to run towards the boss to maintain 100% double il, even on krosus

[kheath812]

apparently you do not know, antelope591 is right you just have to run towards the boss to maintain 100% double il, even on krosus

like i said, it is dependent on fps and ping. i can stand still when i should be able to double ice lance while standing still and it will never work. i can run toward krosus at any range and it will never work. i know how to do it, it just doesnt work. i have all the charts and weakauras that tell me exactly when and how double ice lance should work and in what state and inexplicably it just doesnt do what its supposed to do.

saying it works 100% of the time is kinda bs.

[Deleted]

well, all i can say is that it works perfectly fine for me at 25-30ms when walking so you dont need to adjust the latency etc. but you're correct that it is about latency or rather about storing you actions on the client side, to be able to double icelance on the server side, only problem is that you can sometimes cast an extra icelance which sucks.

well, if its not working for you, sorta makes you the outlier and not the norm, coz it works for every1 else, and tbh sounds more like you dont actually know how to do it, bcoz it does work 100% of the time when the right conditions are met, if it doesnt work, then im afraid it has more to do with you than the mechanic.

[kheath812]

well, all i can say is that it works perfectly fine for me at 25-30ms when walking so you dont need to adjust the latency etc. but you're correct that it is about latency or rather about storing you actions on the client side, to be able to double icelance on the server side, only problem is that you can sometimes cast an extra icelance which sucks.

well, if its not working for you, sorta makes you the outlier and not the norm, coz it works for every1 else, and tbh sounds more like you dont actually know how to do it, bcoz it does work 100% of the time when the right conditions are met, if it doesnt work, then im afraid it has more to do with you than the mechanic.

you are a big fat liar if you say that every time you try to double ice lance it works 100% of the time. not even people in the top guilds in the world have a 100% successful double ice lance record. and it isnt a mechanic. its an oversight.

i know exactly how it works. i know the different range requirements at different haste levels and i know exactly what buttons to press and when. you're just being obtuse. im not saying that it never works. im just saying it doesnt work consistently. and it's not just me. you can look at any top log and see the same trend.

[kenoathcarn]

you are a big fat liar if you say that every time you try to double ice lance it works 100% of the time. not even people in the top guilds in the world have a 100% successful double ice lance record. and it isnt a mechanic. its an oversight.

i know exactly how it works. i know the different range requirements at different haste levels and i know exactly what buttons to press and when. you're just being obtuse. im not saying that it never works. im just saying it doesnt work consistently. and it's not just me. you can look at any top log and see the same trend.

Sorry buy i have to agree with him, I can get it to work 100% consistently even on krosus, if it doesn't work its because of a failure on my part movement-wise.

[Deleted]

well, all i can say is that it works perfectly fine for me at 25-30ms when walking so you dont need to adjust the latency etc. but you're correct that it is about latency or rather about storing you actions on the client side, to be able to double icelance on the server side, only problem is that you can sometimes cast an extra icelance which sucks.

well, if its not working for you, sorta makes you the outlier and not the norm, coz it works for every1 else, and tbh sounds more like you dont actually know how to do it, bcoz it does work 100% of the time when the right conditions are met, if it doesnt work, then im afraid it has more to do with you than the mechanic.

Well, this.

you are a big fat liar if you say that every time you try to double ice lance it works 100% of the time. not even people in the top guilds in the world have a 100% successful double ice lance record. and it isnt a mechanic. its an oversight.

i know exactly how it works. i know the different range requirements at different haste levels and i know exactly what buttons to press and when. you're just being obtuse. im not saying that it never works. im just saying it doesnt work consistently. and it's not just me. you can look at any top log and see the same trend.

He did not say that it works 100% of the time. He said it works 100% of the time when the right conditions are met, given that you are not misplaying.

It currently works consistently on Krosus, but you have to "dance". In fact, not playing this right is the #1 reason for low frost DPS on Krosus, which is precisely what the logs show and what you can see if you use the replay function. People are just not moving correctly. Take a look at the movement of the top mages in the rankings and tell me what you see.

Double IL on live is a reliable way to separate the great mages from the good ones. In case you're considering an application for a top tier raiding guild you might want to get good logs now because people will look at them even after this interaction get patched out.

[Keren]

easy fix for all of you guys, shatter into ebonbolt or glacial spike..How? well, the same some people already do it now... Cast ebonbolt/glacial spike -> shimmer -> flurry

[Xires]

Losing double ice lance isn't going to force us to another spec, Frost was just too strong to begin with and the other specs were simply too weak. From what I can tell, out of 20 5 min dummy pulls on live and 20 on ptr, it's about an avg dps loss of around 80k. So pmuch a flat 6-8% nerf. But still quite a bit ahead of the other 2 specs.

So it seems like, unless things change, they've not changed the spec we'll be playing, just the amount of damage the spec can produce.

- - - Updated - - -

People overestimate the amount of time you're actually able to double lance in a fight and assume that's all that makes the spec viable, and that's simply not true. Granted, the DPS variance will change significantly due to not being able to abuse double lance on those pulls where you have amazing flurry procs during high haste points, but outside of that the Thermal Void change probably hurts just as bad as losing the double lance.

No, frost was NOT too strong it was just in a good place versus the others. Melee still dominate the meters. Fire and Arcane need to be buffed up to Frosts standards. "too strong" the meters say otherwise.

[Deleted]

I really don't know where you people get your information from to be honest. You can still double Ice Lance on the PTR, but the conditions are a lot more strict. Things to consider when testing it and I know almost everyone in this thread will over look some of this stuff:

**A bit of background before I get in to more detail. It is still possible to double ice lance and you can do this 100% of the time, providing the conditions are met**

- The range - This is something that is apparent to everyone. Everyone talks about range. From my testing anything < 18 yards works fine for double ice lance, anything greater and you wont make it, flurry travels too fast.

- The Running - In Live this isn't so much an issue as you can double ice lance from quite close without moving. No on the PTR you have to be able to run the full distance while casting flurry ice lance and ice lance again.

- The Target - Something I'm guessing all you ney-sayers did not take in to account. The target is extremely important, I'm guessing you tried it in the order hall on the dummies there? This is most likely where you're failing, the dummies there are elevated and have a different hit box than most standard bosses, they're slightly larger than they appear. Go to your Garrison and test it there, or Orgrimmar, or Stormwind, anywhere but the class hall.

The Conclusion & tl;dr

Basically you can still double ice lance, but is it worth it? Probably not simply because the conditions are so strict it will likely leave you in a bad spot and apart from the an extra ice lance, the TV up isn't great, it will probably be a thing you do on farm, providing it stay that long.

Tl;dr - You can still double Ice Lance on your garrison dummy if you're < 18 yards from the target and can run the full distance while casting flurry and two ice lances

[D3athsting]

Tldr:
fire is shit
arcane is shit
frost is good but with upcoming nerfs/fixes will be shit too
No blue post about mages since november

Conclusion: blizz doesn't give a fuck so...
Reroll melee or unsub

[Deleted]

Tldr:
fire is shit
arcane is shit
frost is good but with upcoming nerfs/fixes will be shit too
No blue post about mages since november

Conclusion: blizz doesn't give a fuck so...
Reroll melee or unsub

TL;dr git gut and you will be fine with any spec.

[Deleted]

Tldr:
fire is shit
arcane is shit
frost is good but with upcoming nerfs/fixes will be shit too
No blue post about mages since november

Conclusion: blizz doesn't give a fuck so...
Reroll melee or unsub

Frost is "good" : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...y=4&dataset=90

Maybe you meant "god" and slipped in an extra "o" ?

[Deleted]

Frost is "good" : https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...y=4&dataset=90

Maybe you meant "god" and slipped in an extra "o" ?

Linking 90th percentile for such an RNG-dependent spec hardly seems fair. There's also the fact that Mythic is what matters. Try this instead:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount

Frost is GOOD, but it's nowhere near GOD. Their mobility might be, but their damage is not.

[D3athsting]

Linking 90th percentile for such an RNG-dependent spec hardly seems fair. There's also the fact that Mythic is what matters. Try this instead:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount

Frost is GOOD, but it's nowhere near GOD. Their mobility might be, but their damage is not.

Idd hc means nothing, frost is only strong when you can have 100% uptime on boss and don't have to move since it's totally based on direct dmg wihout any dot

[Deleted]

I am glad they nerf Frost mages.

I have seen so many trash players getting good dps with Frost that it was very bothersome.

With have some extremely strong speccs in this game who require actual skill like Frost DK, Assasination Rogue, Demonology Warlock, Survival Hunter and then some random frost mages come along with certain legendaries and abuse the game and think they are good.

I am very glad this is gone

[D3athsting]

I am glad they nerf Frost mages.

I have seen so many trash players getting good dps with Frost that it was very bothersome.

With have some extremely strong speccs in this game who require actual skill like Frost DK, Assasination Rogue, Demonology Warlock, Survival Hunter and then some random frost mages come along with certain legendaries and abuse the game and think they are good.

I am very glad this is gone

Rofl assa rogue waiting for energy regen 70% of the fight and frost dk being "press buttons that light up"

[Deleted]

Rofl assa rogue waiting for energy regen 70% of the fight and frost dk being "press buttons that light up"

assa rogue is hard because you have to survive the boredom

[Tehterokkar]

Idd hc means nothing, frost is only strong when you can have 100% uptime on boss and don't have to move since it's totally based on direct dmg wihout any dot

If you already don't have this as Frost, you are playing it wrong. Learn to Shimmer.