Give LFR it's own loot lockout - the solution for all sides

[Svisalith]

I'm pretty sure the majority of high end raiders really don't care about LFR or " the plebs" getting lfr loot. This seems more like a personality issue that should be discussed with a trusted friend or if needed a licensed professional.

High end raiders clear/cleared LFR for legendary drops because blitzing LFR gives much better rates than doing other content like m+ that is actually challenging, that's the issue.

[Novakhoro]

Did you literally not read past the first sentence?
He's accepted it's a thing, but doesn't like the fact that higher end players are having to do content inappropriate for their level because it offers rewards that are on their level. Blizzard recently said they're on board with this philosophy with the rebalancing of Mythic+ rewards, they want players who are good enough to clear +10 to be incentivised to do that rather than spam MoS +2 or whatever.
The suggestion is to extend this to raiding so there's no reason for a player who's raiding mythic to enter lfr for a chance at gear, because mid level mythic guilds do put pressure on people to do everything to get all they can out of their character, whether it's AP or gear.

Of course he didn't read it. I AM NOT TRYING TO REMOVE LFR. I think LFR is strongly tied to the games continued success. Forfuckssake maybe if yall could read yall woudlnt be stuck in LFR

[Gevoth]

I'll file this under "sub-par solutions to non-existent problems"

+1 internets to you.

[f4ncybear]

For people to stop mentioning LFR it shouldn't award Valor/Runes/AP and have its own loot like WoD. These currencies draw people from trash casual hardcore guilds that can't even organize LFR for their raiders in LFR and they stink the place up because they believe they were forced in there and all these plebs are wasting their time.

[Dug]

Well I'm no high end raider but I find it hard to believe top end mythic raiders are running LFR. For what? AP and a chance for a ridiculous WF/TF?

With your idea it would limit players like me who run LFR and Normal

[MoanaLisa]

All of your points are based on how people feel basically. They feel as if LFR has a heavy incentive behind it to run it (it doesn't any longer); it diminishes the value of a heroic kill. One follows the other.

It would be helpful if people were more hard-headed about it. No one is required to run LFR for any reason other than their own self-imposed notions. A separate lockout would be fine although it would solve nothing at all. If anything it would exacerbate the division between those that run LFR and those that concentrate on higher difficulties. It's not that different from building a wall around it. But anyone that cares seriously about raiding should welcome the idea that there will be some that find LFR unsatisfying and want to do a pug or generally move up. Their opportunity to do so will be constrained considerably if they are locked out of rewards. LFR will do fine; higher difficulty raiding will see their prospective community shrink even further.

Would it stop the complaining? No, it wouldn't. The complaints since the start have been about bruised egos that people not worthy to see raid content are seeing it. It's been disguised in one way or another but that's one of the basic seeds that the whole argument has grown out of. "Raids used to be special and now they're not." It's a kind of country club thinking and I don't really have much of a problem with it. But if it were to settle in and things return to the way they were with two-thirds of everyone not seeing the inside of a raid instance, raiding would inevitably be seriously damaged. The developers have been implying this for years and it's not very smart to not listen to them in this case.

[seventysix]

Of course he didn't read it. I AM NOT TRYING TO REMOVE LFR. I think LFR is strongly tied to the games continued success. Forfuckssake maybe if yall could read yall woudlnt be stuck in LFR

Not everyone is here to flame you buddy, as someone who has a family, full time career children etc. and yet still raids mythic 2-3 days per week in a US top 100, I think this is an excellent idea! I Would love having to only do Normal/Heroic/Mythic etc 1 raid 1 time per week...right now it's fucking overboard, I have to do all 4 difficulties to keep up with AP. Anyone who thinks otherwise being in a high tiered mythic guild is delusional.

I think LFR is a fantastic addition to the game, prior to legion it's true we weren't required to do LFR and I did not, however with AP being introduced the gain from an LFR clear is too big to not be obligated to do it. Sad days.

[seventysix]

All of your points are based on how people feel basically. They feel as if LFR has a heavy incentive behind it to run it (it doesn't any longer)

Couldn't disagree more with what I said above, it has more incentive now than ever with titanforging and AP. that's an extra chance every week to get a super titanforged Metranome or Whispers.

[clevin]

Did you literally not read past the first sentence?
He's accepted it's a thing, but doesn't like the fact that higher end players are having to do content inappropriate for their level because it offers rewards that are on their level. Blizzard recently said they're on board with this philosophy with the rebalancing of Mythic+ rewards, they want players who are good enough to clear +10 to be incentivised to do that rather than spam MoS +2 or whatever.
The suggestion is to extend this to raiding so there's no reason for a player who's raiding mythic to enter lfr for a chance at gear, because mid level mythic guilds do put pressure on people to do everything to get all they can out of their character, whether it's AP or gear.

They dont HAVE to do it. It does NOT offer rewards on the level unless they're VERY lucky and TF something. Chasing a very low percentage chance of that happening is the player's issue.

There's no reason for someone raiding mythic to enter LFR *now* - the only people who put this shit out there are tryhards who will complain about being forced to do something vs exercising self control. OP wants the game to enforce a lockout because they can't act like an adult and limit themselves. How about... No.

[Svisalith]

Well I'm no high end raider but I find it hard to believe top end mythic raiders are running LFR. For what? AP and a chance for a ridiculous WF/TF?

With your idea it would limit players like me who run LFR and Normal

Clearing LFR and normal mode raids gives extremely good legendary droprates per hour so the best skilled&geared raiders in the game are highly incentivized to do it.

It does NOT offer rewards on the level unless they're VERY lucky

It offers a guaranteed amount of legendary multiplier.

[clevin]

Of course he didn't read it. I AM NOT TRYING TO REMOVE LFR. I think LFR is strongly tied to the games continued success. Forfuckssake maybe if yall could read yall woudlnt be stuck in LFR

Sure I read it. I want you to grow a fucking spine and realize that chasing a low percentage TF chance (made even lower by chasing a specific item TFing) is YOUR CHOICE. No real high end raider does that.

- - - Updated - - -

Clearing LFR and normal mode raids gives extremely good legendary droprates per hour so the best skilled&geared raiders in the game are highly incentivized to do it.

Fucking hell you children. AGAIN, it's YOUR CHOICE. If you want to, great, do that. If you don't, don't. Quit asking the game to control your play because you all cannot. PS: Oh, now it's not just LFR it's normal? Shall we have that on its own lockout? If not, why LFR and not normal?

- - - Updated - - -

Not everyone is here to flame you buddy, as someone who has a family, full time career children etc. and yet still raids mythic 2-3 days per week in a US top 100, I think this is an excellent idea! I Would love having to only do Normal/Heroic/Mythic etc 1 raid 1 time per week...right now it's fucking overboard, I have to do all 4 difficulties to keep up with AP. Anyone who thinks otherwise being in a high tiered mythic guild is delusional.

I think LFR is a fantastic addition to the game, prior to legion it's true we weren't required to do LFR and I did not, however with AP being introduced the gain from an LFR clear is too big to not be obligated to do it. Sad days.

(laughs hysterically at person thinking they have to clear all 4 difficulties for tiny chance at TF gear)

And if your raid makes you - YOU chose to raid with them. Man up.

- - - Updated - - -

High end raiders clear/cleared LFR for legendary drops because blitzing LFR gives much better rates than doing other content like m+ that is actually challenging, that's the issue.

And who, among the players who've been doing this for months, doesn't have several legendaries already? "But not my BiS!!" uh huh. See above about self control and choice.

[Accendor]

yeah take stuff away that I can do on my own free will, sounds awesome.

[iamthedevil]

Lol, what a horrible idea.

[Atherius]

100% agree. I've said many times that each difficulty should have it's own lockout, and this shouldn't just apply to lfr. "Forcing" players to run nm/hc on top of mythic progress for that small chance for a titanforge upgrade + artifact power is making players burnout. Blizzard have managed to keep old content somewhat relevant throughout the expansion, but to me this hasn't been a good experience. Introducing lockouts to each difficulty is a step in the right direction if you ask me. Giving players something to do all the time isn't always a positive thing. And no, no one is forcing me to do anything. It's more a state of mind where players don't want to miss out on opportunities for a potential upgrade or to fall behind. I realise most players aren't like this, but for me and a lot of others, it is.

[Noxina]

This wouldn't solve anything at all.

And who are these high end raiders you're talking about? Because, as far as I know, all high end raiders I know don't give a shit about LFR. And if they do want/feel like they have to do it, they form a group of 5 and breeze through and kill the certain bosses they need for a certain Tier piece or trinket, in the hope for insane TF.

Locking the loot as you speak of is just idiotic. What if I want to complete LFR/Normal/HC on my alts, because I want to, got the time for it and like the small gamble of TF/WF items.

If they where to implement such a feature, they should also expand it to every difficulty. You've done normal this week? Well shame, you won't get gear from LFR, HC nor Mythic, better luck next week! People should, after all, not feel forced to do content they don't want to.



Also, all low end raiders I know demise Mythic, we should remove it. /s

[pansertjald]

100% agree. I've said many times that each difficulty should have it's own lockout, and this shouldn't just apply to lfr. "Forcing" players to run nm/hc on top of mythic progress for that small chance for a titanforge upgrade + artifact power is making players burnout. Blizzard have managed to keep old content somewhat relevant throughout the expansion, but to me this hasn't been a good experience. Introducing lockouts to each difficulty is a step in the right direction if you ask me. Giving players something to do all the time isn't always a positive thing. And no, no one is forcing me to do anything. It's more a state of mind where players don't want to miss out on opportunities for a potential upgrade or to fall behind. I realise most players aren't like this, but for me and a lot of others, it is.

No one is beeing forced into doing any thing they don't want to. It's the players who are forcing them self into it and NOT Blizzard

[Jimson]

Not everyone is here to flame you buddy, as someone who has a family, full time career children etc. and yet still raids mythic 2-3 days per week in a US top 100, I think this is an excellent idea! I Would love having to only do Normal/Heroic/Mythic etc 1 raid 1 time per week...right now it's fucking overboard, I have to do all 4 difficulties to keep up with AP. Anyone who thinks otherwise being in a high tiered mythic guild is delusional.

I think LFR is a fantastic addition to the game, prior to legion it's true we weren't required to do LFR and I did not, however with AP being introduced the gain from an LFR clear is too big to not be obligated to do it. Sad days.

I had to check the date on this post 3 or 4 times. "Keep up with AP?" How're you falling behind on AP running 4 difficulties of raids/week? What are your RL requirements?

[hyphnos]

A better solution is "let players exercise self-restraint" since there is no problem other than lack thereof.

[kamuimac]

I'll start this by saying that I can't stand the idea of LFR. I don't believe that it is interesting in any way shape or form. I believe that it is neither engaging, nor conducive to any kind of personal enjoyment, for me. I do acknowledge that it is here to say and how a vast majority of the playerbase experiences the content

The reason that high end raiders dislike it is primarily two-fold (there are arguments for a third, but I will deal with two) in that: 1) they are strongly incentived to participate in it and 2) it diminishes the sentimental value of getting the kill on whatever difficulty you aspire to complete when Johnny No-Hands and Kelly Keyboard-Turner's blind cats can kill it while maintaining around 8% of optimal DPS/HPS/tankingpersecond.

The second has been addressed by Blizzard and is why we have wings released on a delayed schedule for LFR. Sounds good. The third argument that I mentioned is that new players will see the herp-derp mode, feel like they've completed the game, and decide they're done until the new stuff.

The former point, I believe, can be remedied by having a loot lockout that is solely for LFR. If you complete a boss on LFR then you cannot receive anything from that boss in any other difficulty throughout the reset. The same goes vice versa for the other difficulties meaning that if a boss is killed on Heroic difficulty there is nothing to be gained from killing it on LFR difficulty.

There would then be no reason for anyone who does not wish to run LFR to feel like they have to, and LFR people would finally be free of all the elitist-scum who come into their LFR. They'd be left to their own devices to progress through the raid at whatever speed that randomly assigned group can muster.

TL;DR - Give LFR its own loot lockout. You can either get loot from LFR or the other three difficulties. Higher end raiders won't have to subject themselves to LFR for any kind of gain, and LFR raiders wont have to get bitched at for trying to experience the game in a way that suits them

Flame on if you disagree. I might have a terrible idea and that's fine, but I feel that this would satisfy both the LFR crowd and the anti-LFR crowd. Thoughts?

seems like problem with self control - people who have that should seek proffesional help

alternatively we can remove mythic raiding to remove all those non existing problems - i bet this would help much more

[Jimson]

I'll start this by saying that I can't stand the idea of LFR. I don't believe that it is interesting in any way shape or form. I believe that it is neither engaging, nor conducive to any kind of personal enjoyment, for me. I do acknowledge that it is here to say and how a vast majority of the playerbase experiences the content

The reason that high end raiders dislike it is primarily two-fold (there are arguments for a third, but I will deal with two) in that: 1) they are strongly incentived to participate in it and 2) it diminishes the sentimental value of getting the kill on whatever difficulty you aspire to complete when Johnny No-Hands and Kelly Keyboard-Turner's blind cats can kill it while maintaining around 8% of optimal DPS/HPS/tankingpersecond.

The second has been addressed by Blizzard and is why we have wings released on a delayed schedule for LFR. Sounds good. The third argument that I mentioned is that new players will see the herp-derp mode, feel like they've completed the game, and decide they're done until the new stuff.

The former point, I believe, can be remedied by having a loot lockout that is solely for LFR. If you complete a boss on LFR then you cannot receive anything from that boss in any other difficulty throughout the reset. The same goes vice versa for the other difficulties meaning that if a boss is killed on Heroic difficulty there is nothing to be gained from killing it on LFR difficulty.

There would then be no reason for anyone who does not wish to run LFR to feel like they have to, and LFR people would finally be free of all the elitist-scum who come into their LFR. They'd be left to their own devices to progress through the raid at whatever speed that randomly assigned group can muster.

TL;DR - Give LFR its own loot lockout. You can either get loot from LFR or the other three difficulties. Higher end raiders won't have to subject themselves to LFR for any kind of gain, and LFR raiders wont have to get bitched at for trying to experience the game in a way that suits them

Flame on if you disagree. I might have a terrible idea and that's fine, but I feel that this would satisfy both the LFR crowd and the anti-LFR crowd. Thoughts?

Guy in the forum posts about World First Guilds dying: It's because LFR is sucking all the players out of the raid pool, and they don't advance
Guy in the forum posts about LFR loot having a lockout: It would prevent LFR players from running other modes

:thinking: