[05/17/17] - How are Rets doing ?

[Deleted]

Y right.
We are doing great that's why we receive constant nerfs. No worries. U will see tons of ret paladins participating in first kills. And they are doing great in rated arena . Literally everywhere in pvp tournaments.
So yeah just sit there and enjoy. The king is nakid

[Morally Grey Storm]

So yeah just sit there and enjoy. The king is nakid

kukuku ^_^

Stating the obvious is next best thing to, well, anything.

Less is not new more.
We are not any better.
We have less, we have worse.

[Jester Joe]

Still, the feel of being in control, of having means to customize your character has dwindled.

Which is irrelevant to your original claim that "you had options"

The illusion of options is not actual options.

Sure as sure.
Which brings us back again to your claim that now we, to quote: "have less but better".

ALL offhealing potential removed, HoSac and Hosalv removed, mobility gutted into negative zone(granted, Ret was never king of mobility, but we held our own and were pretty mobile on our own), selfdefence gutted due to removal of DivProt and Sacred Shield, yet we have it somehow "better" now?
How and where?

And I'm not even touching PvP here, purely from Dragonslaying point.

That's odd, I never said we had "less but better".

I said "We're better than normal" in regards to DPS. Yet again, you're misinterpreting what I'm saying, which is odd, because even the OP was asking "how we are in raids regarding damage". Nothing about utility which you're focusing so hard on.

And your point being...?

That you made up something that I said, tried to argue it, didn't want to accept that I didn't say it was a big impact or anything, and now we're going in a circle because my original claim still stands?

[Deleted]

ST struggles. We used to be strong at it and nowadays we are mid of the pack.

Sustained AoE is strong. Burst is ok but DH is getting nerfed.

If the new legendary ring is a thing though, we might become stronger. We'll see.

[Morally Grey Storm]

That's odd, I never said we had "less but better".

Also yeah, we lost a bit of utility like Devo Aura, Sac, etc, but what we do have left is better now

huh?

Which is irrelevant to your original claim that "you had options"
The illusion of options is not actual options.

No, it is not.
F.E. Curently, if you get an awesome piece of gear which unfortunately has a huge amount of Mastery on it, it's an instant reject.
back then, you could make it work via reforging and gemming,
Now you're not even allowed to gem unless slotmachine procs some gemslots for you.
Less is the new more indeed.

Yet again, you're misinterpreting what I'm saying, which is odd, because even the OP was asking "how we are in raids regarding damage". Nothing about utility which you're focusing so hard on.

No, I am not.
I see devil's advocate approach for what it is.
Which brings us back to this statement:

Also yeah, we lost a bit of utility like Devo Aura, Sac, etc, but what we do have left is better now (BoP doesn't stop melee from attacking now)

That you made up something that I said, tried to argue it, didn't want to accept that I didn't say it was a big impact or anything, and now we're going in a circle because my original claim still stands?

Doubt it.
There is no strawmanning from my side.
But feel free to think so.
I couldn't care less if you do, after being enlightened by this new paradigm of "less but better".

[Jester Joe]

huh?

Like I said, you misinterpeting.

What they left was buffed, AKA- it became better.

Ergo, what we have now is better. Not that we have more, but what was left over is now better than it was then.

No, it is not.
F.E. Curently, if you get an awesome piece of gear which unfortunately has a huge amount of Mastery on it, it's an instant reject.
back then, you could make it work via reforging and gemming,
Now you're not even allowed to gem unless slotmachine procs some gemslots for you.
Less is the new more indeed.

Is it still a big ilvl upgrade? You suck it up and stick it on anyway, because the strength gain.
Back then? You'd still want something without the low stat.

No, I am not.
I see devil's advocate approach for what it is.
Which brings us back to this statement:
Doubt it.
There is no strawmanning from my side.
But feel free to think so.
I couldn't care less if you do, after being enlightened by this new paradigm of "less but better".

Which brings me back to the first part of my post. It's you misinterpreting what I said. Whether intentional or not, you were arguing a strawman.

[Deleted]

Hey guys, I have a somewhat related question, its about the Ret playstyle. Right now im trying to decide on which melee DPS I want to play, and its between Pala and Warrior. However, with warrior I fear that it might be a bit too much of a "routine", in the sense that it pretty much always the same rotation with very few procs. I kind of enjoy having some whack-a-mole elements in my DPS. Do you think paladin would be the right choice for me?

In between the ranting regarding the degree of uselessness that is Justice Gaze, Paladin isn't very proc-reliant right now. With the new ring and speccing into BoJ, you would have a more casino-play style in 7.2.5 though. I haven't played my Warrior much since NH release, but I definitely enjoyed my Retri a lot more and stuck with it. Retri feels a lot more satisfying to play and you're also less reliant on having DoS to deal the majority of your big numbers.

[Morally Grey Storm]

Like I said, you misinterpeting.

What they left was buffed, AKA- it became better.

Ergo, what we have now is better. Not that we have more, but what was left over is now better than it was then.

No, I am not.
Our entire Utility toolkit was gutted and ripped to pieces and turned into a shadow of a copy of a copy of a copy of it's former glory, but hey! - BoP now allows to attack while in it, which instantly turns all my points regarding our dwindled, pathetic, nonexistant utility, null and void.
You're arguing semantics. BoP is slightly better, entire toolkit though, is massively worse.
Not to mention BoP is not even spec-esxclusive.
But feel free to continue with this line of loldefence.

Is it still a big ilvl upgrade? You suck it up and stick it on anyway, because the strength gain.
Back then? You'd still want something without the low stat.

Back then you would consider your options.
You would conssider if this new piece claashes with your BiS list, you would consider if your stat caps can manage it.
Now though, you do indeed suck it up.

Which brings me back to the first part of my post. It's you misinterpreting what I said. Whether intentional or not, you were arguing a strawman.

The irony of situation is not lost on me, when you are the one arguing a strawman over one single spell being slightly buffed when the whole wide entirety of our toolkit was reduced to ashes.

Ashes to ashes, huh.

[Jester Joe]

No, I am not.
Our entire Utility toolkit was gutted and ripped to pieces and turned into a shadow of a copy of a copy of a copy of it's former glory, but hey! - BoP now allows to attack while in it, which instantly turns all my points regarding our dwindled, pathetic, nonexistant utility, null and void.
You're arguing semantics. BoP is slightly better, entire toolkit though, is massively worse.
Not to mention BoP is not even spec-esxclusive.
But feel free to continue with this line of loldefence.


Back then you would consider your options.
You would conssider if this new piece claashes with your BiS list, you would consider if your stat caps can manage it.
Now though, you do indeed suck it up.


The irony of situation is not lost on me, when you are the one arguing a strawman over one single spell being slightly buffed when the whole wide entirety of our toolkit was reduced to ashes.

Ashes to ashes, huh.

I'm just gonna drop this here then.

It's quite clear you misunderstood what I said, which yeah maybe I should have worded it better.

But it seems instead of going "oh okay, miscommunication", you insist on pushing it, when there's no point.

Also that's not what a strawman is. Strawman is when you take someone else's argument and misrepresent it.

[Fiftyonred]

But still, it was there.

So having nothing but FoL is better than SH FoL casts, WoG, HRadiance, Dl, HL?
having nothing but BoP is better than SoV and Sac?


I'm not "trying" to say , I've said it there and then.

Who cares about nivhe things?
HW has niche uses, does it make any good?

Are you actively trying to be annoying, or is it just how you roll?
He said it was a niche and fun at that. you not caring about something being a fun niche, dosnt chance the fact that it can be.

Jesus, everyday this just gets more and more cancerous...

[Reith]

Are you actively trying to be annoying, or is it just how you roll?
He said it was a niche and fun at that. you not caring about something being a fun niche, dosnt chance the fact that it can be.

It's a fact ret has lost a lot of its utility, healing and mobility. The talent tree is also quite a mess. It hasn't been structured properly since MoP. A mobility talent shouldn't be competing with a talent that's basically mandatory for progression.

[Fiftyonred]

It's a fact ret has lost a lot of its utility, healing and mobility. The talent tree is also quite a mess. It hasn't been structured properly since MoP. A mobility talent shouldn't be competing with a talent that's basically mandatory for progression.

And that statement of yours has what to do with what I wrote exactly?

[Nition]

Amid all the complaining that ret lost everything, I actually prefer it. Being an original warrior player, not having to be a hybrid healing all the time, and the CS playstyle, ret is basically what I wanted arms to be. Its why I re-rolled at the start of Legion.

Ah well, no doubt Storm will say I'm the issue with this class moving forward

[Thylight]

bad, please dont reroll, we don't people who can't check Warcraft logs on class performance.

[Reith]

Amid all the complaining that ret lost everything, I actually prefer it. Being an original warrior player, not having to be a hybrid healing all the time, and the CS playstyle, ret is basically what I wanted arms to be. Its why I re-rolled at the start of Legion.

Ah well, no doubt Storm will say I'm the issue with this class moving forward

Ret is okay right now, but it could obviously be better, and it has been better before. The class fantasy overhaul was a step backwards. Only reason I'm sticking with it is because I dislike every other class and spec more tbh.

[Nition]

Ret is okay right now, but it could obviously be better, and it has been better before. The class fantasy overhaul was a step backwards. Only reason I'm sticking with it is because I dislike every other class and spec more tbh.

Personally the fantasy overhaul is what drew me. I've always liked ret as a concept but there was just something lacking. Its why I played holy back in vanilla/bc, and then later transitioned to warrior. It now actually feels like a holy warrior, which for me is ideal.

[Deleted]

Stockholm syndrome

[Kantoro]

Get a room, jeez.

[Ellarielle]

Amid all the complaining that ret lost everything, I actually prefer it. Being an original warrior player, not having to be a hybrid healing all the time, and the CS playstyle, ret is basically what I wanted arms to be. Its why I re-rolled at the start of Legion.

Ah well, no doubt Storm will say I'm the issue with this class moving forward

I'm actually really happy with Ret right now, but I also am not originally a ret or pally player. I've been a resto druid since Vanilla and decided to come back for legion (after playing maybe a month of Draenor) but I wanted to try something else. I was supposed to be a holy pally but we ended up not needing heals so I ended up rolling ret. I don't even normally like melee in any game so this has been new and a ton of fun for me. The only thing that is "kind" of annoying right now is I finally got my cloak & belt so I feel like a monster with crusade... but then not so much while it is on CD

[Deleted]

bad, please dont reroll, we don't people who can't check Warcraft logs on class performance.

indeed........