[TV] The Flash!

[Khime]

then who will save barry?

Duhn duhn duhnnnnnn! Cliffhanger!

[Immitis]

Duhn duhn duhnnnnnn! Cliffhanger!

[roflwaffle]

well if nothing else, in the promo cisco has hands

[Ahsanraza]

If the future Barry created time remnants to defeat Savitar and one of them became new/future Savitar, Then WHO THE HELL was original savitar?

[ravenmoon]

Why is it black lightning instead of just Lightning? it's weird !!

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Plot Twist:The real Iris is off locked in a cage someplace and he killed her time remanent! lol

I thought it may have been Iris from Earth 2 that was hanging with HR and Savitar just grabbed her without thinking.

The thing is, the secret of Iris' survival must be kept until Barry traps him in the speed force, AND past Barry visits the future, then Iris can return and Savitar will be none the wiser. CLosing off that loop

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WEll, there is also the possibility that Iris actually died...and the actress will step down into a recurring role for next season. Should check if she is starring in any new film or shooting any new series.

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Was i the only one who felt that Aurora's Murder song elevated the episode to a different level? They don't often play songs or good ones to fit, but once in a while they really hit the nail on the head. This was one. The episode was so beautiful for it, hauntingly. Knowing it was going to happen didn't make it any less touching and hearbreaking when it actually did.

[Arbiter]

Why is it black lightning instead of just Lightning? it's weird !!

His daughters are super heroes with the aliases of Thunder and Lightning.

Not positive about WHY he calls himself Black Lightning, but this is what I found:

Years later, he would tell fellow African American superhero Mister Terrific that he chose the name Black Lightning because he "was the only one of us around" at the time, and he "wanted to make sure everyone knew who they were dealing with."

[TJ]

Holy shit.. Best episode of the entire series imo, was so well done at the end, the slow mo running, the music, the acting. Damn, blown away by that soo good.

Although, I'd bet money that it's not Iris, going to be HR disguised as her or something similar. They can't kill Iris.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Duhn duhn duhnnnnnn! Cliffhanger!

Jay pays back the favor maybe? I dunno...Tuesday can't come soon enough.

[Svifnymr]

Oh, I agree it's silly. But I also think it's been set up as something that could have happened, no matter how silly.

Me, I still think this will end with Barry somehow preventing Savitar from ever existing, either by accepting Iris' death or by going into the Speed Force trap in Jay's place, thus making Iris magically reappear and everyone forgetting this whole season ever happened.

Interestingly, since he failed to imprison Savitar with the Bazooka, why is there even a trap for Jay to be stuck in?

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Interestingly, since he failed to imprison Savitar with the Bazooka, why is there even a trap for Jay to be stuck in?

Well it's in the Speedforce and that is pretty much outside time and space. It's always there. >.>

[Svifnymr]

If the future Barry created time remnants to defeat Savitar and one of them became new/future Savitar, Then WHO THE HELL was original savitar?

The original time loop is simple, a remnant becomes Savitar, travels back in time to kill Iris and thus the remnants are formed to kill Savitar and one becomes him.

The loop has been broken though, possibly since Flashpoint, but at the least since Barry went forward in time. In the original loop, Barry and the others didn't know Savitar was a remnant. Possibly they just didn't want to admit it, but that seems off. At this point there is absolutely no reason for Barry to make a time remnant to avenge himself on Savitar. He not only knows it will fail, he knows it will create his worst enemy.

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Well it's in the Speedforce and that is pretty much outside time and space. It's always there. >.>

Then they wouldn't need to create it, just access it.

[ravenmoon]

His daughters are super heroes with the aliases of Thunder and Lightning.

Not positive about WHY he calls himself Black Lightning, but this is what I found:

Years later, he would tell fellow African American superhero Mister Terrific that he chose the name Black Lightning because he "was the only one of us around" at the time, and he "wanted to make sure everyone knew who they were dealing with.

I wonder if black people in America like being called/identified like that.. it's a bit weird, it's like insisting you put white infront of everything - i tell gay pride enthusiasts the same thing. I can imagine black people in the rest of the world would think this a bit odd, like you have to put the skin colour identifier first - like you're not human, you're black human or gay human - sooo weird.. but it might be an American thing/american history issue, racism of all sorts exists around the world, I know but i don't 0think anywhere else is nearly as conscious about it or fixates on skin colour as much as the yanks... i've been noticing this alot.. why is that? and is it coming from the blacs? or the whites? or just the culture?

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The original time loop is simple, a remnant becomes Savitar, travels back in time to kill Iris and thus the remnants are formed to kill Savitar and one becomes him.

The loop has been broken though, possibly since Flashpoint, but at the least since Barry went forward in time. In the original loop, Barry and the others didn't know Savitar was a remnant. Possibly they just didn't want to admit it, but that seems off. At this point there is absolutely no reason for Barry to make a time remnant to avenge himself on Savitar. He not only knows it will fail, he knows it will create his worst enemy.

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Then they wouldn't need to create it, just access it.

Wait... I thought Flashpoint created the loop and the whole SAvitar thing, IRis West lived on well into the 21st century before flashpoit.

And am I the only one thinking that Iris could survive hidden from Barry and thus Savitar all along to get rid of Savitar? AFterall, they have to hide she survived from him him until Savitar is trapped in the speed force AND Barry vistits the future.. -now the loop has an opening tha twould be the perfect way to execute save iris.

also she could actually be dead

[Arbiter]

I wonder if black people in America like being called/identified like that.. it's a bit weird, it's like insisting you put white infront of everything - i tell gay pride enthusiasts the same thing. I can imagine black people in the rest of the world would think this a bit odd, like you have to put the skin colour identifier first - like you're not human, you're black human or gay human - sooo weird.. but it might be an American thing/american history issue, racism of all sorts exists around the world, I know but i don't 0think anywhere else is nearly as conscious about it or fixates on skin colour as much as the yanks... i've been noticing this alot.. why is that? and is it coming from the blacs? or the whites? or just the culture?

You have to realize that this character was created in the 70s where race WAS a bigger issue. The quote is also from the character himself justifying his name to another character in the comics. One of the creators of Black Lightning is also black so obviously he felt it was a good idea to use the name.

Honestly you're making it a bigger deal than it needs to be. Really don't need need another "Iron Fist's actor shouldn't be white" kind of debate.

[Deleted]

I wonder if black people in America like being called/identified like that.. it's a bit weird, it's like insisting you put white infront of everything - i tell gay pride enthusiasts the same thing. I can imagine black people in the rest of the world would think this a bit odd, like you have to put the skin colour identifier first - like you're not human, you're black human or gay human - sooo weird.. but it might be an American thing/american history issue, racism of all sorts exists around the world, I know but i don't 0think anywhere else is nearly as conscious about it or fixates on skin colour as much as the yanks... i've been noticing this alot.. why is that? and is it coming from the blacs? or the whites? or just the culture?

I think its just an american thing, the country from which terms like afro-american came from....

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Honestly you're making it a bigger deal than it needs to be. Really don't need need another "Iron Fist's actor shouldn't be white" kind of debate.

Amen to that. Is it me or do only americans tend to start these discussions?

[Arbiter]

Amen to that. Is it me or do only americans tend to start these discussions?

I'm american and I don't get these type of discussions.

[Svifnymr]

Wait... I thought Flashpoint created the loop and the whole SAvitar thing, IRis West lived on well into the 21st century before flashpoit.

I'm honestly not positive with the impact of Flashpoint. Savitar says Flashpoint allowed him to use Wally to swap himself. It seems odd to me that Flashpoint would have created him but also be this opening. Since Flashpoint didn't affect Earth 2+, it seems odd that Jay knew about Savitar if he was solely due to Flashpoint.

I mean, I guess it's possible that FLashpoint created Savitar, then he did all this stuff that made him a "legend in the Speedforce", but still odd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKJy6ZRWO6Q

But Quick came to Earth1 and noticed the Flashpoint differences right away, so...

They probably just make it up as they go along and let the fans work out the details.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'm honestly not positive with the impact of Flashpoint. Savitar says Flashpoint allowed him to use Wally to swap himself. It seems odd to me that Flashpoint would have created him but also be this opening. Since Flashpoint didn't affect Earth 2+, it seems odd that Jay knew about Savitar if he was solely due to Flashpoint.

I mean, I guess it's possible that FLashpoint created Savitar, then he did all this stuff that made him a "legend in the Speedforce", but still odd.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qKJy6ZRWO6Q

But Quick came to Earth1 and noticed the Flashpoint differences right away, so...

They probably just make it up as they go along and let the fans work out the details.

Nah, a lot of this was made early on. I recall said TR Barry(Or Savitar) was around before Flashpoint but Flashpoint kinda caused Savitar to..be outside the prison but somehow stuck in the speedforce.

[ravenmoon]

I'm american and I don't get these type of discussions.

I'm not american, and i really struggle understanding them.. it just struck me as weird, i guess its been grating on me for a while... but i shall desist, lest I inadvertently turn this into another IF fiasco - one I thought was absolutely ridiculous... yanks

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Nah, a lot of this was made early on. I recall said TR Barry(Or Savitar) was around before Flashpoint but Flashpoint kinda caused Savitar to..be outside the prison but somehow stuck in the speedforce.

but how can that be? Savitar mentioned he was one of the time remnants Barry created for a specific purpose (to deal with flashpoint or something that Flashpoint casued that needed fixing), then just discarded him like the remenant he let die to erase Thorne.

[Khime]

but how can that be? Savitar mentioned he was one of the time remnants Barry created for a specific purpose (to deal with flashpoint or something that Flashpoint casued that needed fixing), then just discarded him like the remenant he let die to erase Thorne.

Pre-Flashpoint Timeline: Savitar kills Iris. Barry creates time remnants to try to defeat Savitar. Savitar kills all but one of them. Barry eventually traps Savitar in the Speed Force forever. The surviving time remnant is shunned by his family, and eventually becomes Savitar, who travels back in time to establish his own myth and to kill Iris. His existance is a bootstrap paradox.

3x15: "When you created Flashpoint, you unwittingly provided me with the means for my return. You gave me the idea to turn Wally into Kid Flash. To make him fast enough to replace me in your prison. His youth and ego were my allies."

Post-Flashpoint Timeline: Savitar kills Iris. Barry creates time remnants to try to defeat Savitar. Savitar kills all but one of them. Barry eventually traps Savitar in the Speed Force "forever". The surviving time remnant is shunned by his family, and eventually becomes Savitar, who travels back in time to establish his own myth and to kill Iris. Savitar (trapped in the Speed Force) gets the idea to turn Wally into Kid Flash thanks to Flashpoint, and uses his acolyte Alchemy to do so. Wally frees Savitar...

Wait, now I'm confused, why is the 'freed' Savitar the one to kill Iris? Shouldn't the original Savitar who killed Iris still be bouncing around, waiting to be "trapped forever" four years after killing Iris? Unless Iris' death isn't what originally led to Savitar's creation...

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Pre-Flashpoint Timeline: Savitar kills Iris. Barry creates time remnants to try to defeat Savitar. Savitar kills all but one of them. Barry eventually traps Savitar in the Speed Force forever. The surviving time remnant is shunned by his family, and eventually becomes Savitar, who travels back in time to establish his own myth and to kill Iris. His existance is a bootstrap paradox.

3x15: "When you created Flashpoint, you unwittingly provided me with the means for my return. You gave me the idea to turn Wally into Kid Flash. To make him fast enough to replace me in your prison. His youth and ego were my allies."

Post-Flashpoint Timeline: Savitar kills Iris. Barry creates time remnants to try to defeat Savitar. Savitar kills all but one of them. Barry eventually traps Savitar in the Speed Force "forever". The surviving time remnant is shunned by his family, and eventually becomes Savitar, who travels back in time to establish his own myth and to kill Iris. Savitar (trapped in the Speed Force) gets the idea to turn Wally into Kid Flash thanks to Flashpoint, and uses his acolyte Alchemy to do so. Wally frees Savitar...

Wait, now I'm confused, why is the 'freed' Savitar the one to kill Iris? Shouldn't the original Savitar who killed Iris still be bouncing around, waiting to be "trapped forever" four years after killing Iris? Unless Iris' death isn't what originally led to Savitar's creation...

Two Savitars hanging around. Or something.


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