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  1. #241
    Blademaster Rawwrz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by precious View Post
    Exept there is big money involved for many of those players in top guilds. Streaming (subs/donations) and dont forget ppl that are buying boosts one or two weeks after raid is over, and paying insane amounts of money to get the title early.

    There is a reason why they dont stream even after 10-20 guilds have killed the last boss if u know what i mean. They dont expect bllizard money. They have other sources.
    Big money compared to who? Any top Dota2/LoL/Overatch streamer shits on ANY and EVERY WoW streamer by quite a big margin. Throw in the sponsors who flock to those games/streamers/brand its not even remotely close.

    Even the "big" wow streamers have had to venture into other games because they realized WoW has zero future money wise. What the top WoW streamer left is Toweliee? Who doesn't hold a candle views wise to at least 10 LoL/CsGo streamers not even including the Dota2 ones. Nobody can watch world 1st race because of the strats and nobody watches the garbo wow arena tournaments so what money is there outside of donations? You have to be providing something other than your "top" guild to get donations aka be likable/personality/funny/entertaining.

  2. #242
    Quote Originally Posted by Rawwrz View Post
    Big money compared to who? Any top Dota2/LoL/Overatch streamer shits on ANY and EVERY WoW streamer by quite a big margin. Throw in the sponsors who flock to those games/streamers/brand its not even remotely close.

    Even the "big" wow streamers have had to venture into other games because they realized WoW has zero future money wise. What the top WoW streamer left is Toweliee? Who doesn't hold a candle views wise to at least 10 LoL/CsGo streamers not even including the Dota2 ones. Nobody can watch world 1st race because of the strats and nobody watches the garbo wow arena tournaments so what money is there outside of donations? You have to be providing something other than your "top" guild to get donations aka be likable/personality/funny/entertaining.
    Seriously. There are Overwatch streamers who got into the streaming game less than a year ago and have a ridiculous amount of subscribers and their viewerbase is growing by the day. Who the hell wants to give money to watch someone play a 12 year old game in the same raid that has been out for 4 months or do the same boring dailies?

    Hell right now there is almost as many people watching one guy play PUBG as there is the entire WoW category.

  3. #243
    Large portion of Blizzard's Content creator's that AREN'T Sponsored by Blizzard are quitting. I think this is the first time we've seen an exodus this large. Retail is dead.

  4. #244
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    There is no AP grind.

    You can hit 52 points in wep just doing your weekly clears leading up to ToS, such a grind /facepalm. Still have another 4-5 weeks before ToS hits and even the super casuals are probably rocking 48 points in wep.
    well, i just do all wq that gives ap + emissary + one mythic 8+ per week and i am still sitting at 51 (331m to 52)

    so not true... of course i'll hit this week 52, but for someone only doing emissary + weekly clears of raid will probably not hit 52 by ToS

    and for top guuilds, fighting for WF, every trait on the last trait matters, even if its only goes up by 200 stats...

    PS: I have a pally and i only do emissarys, well, he still at 44..

  5. #245
    I feel it is a blizzard issue. Let's just make everyone new stronger than the vets of the game. It feels like a liberal person took over WoW.

    Why try?

  6. #246
    Quote Originally Posted by Unforgivenn View Post
    well, i just do all wq that gives ap + emissary + one mythic 8+ per week and i am still sitting at 51 (331m to 52)

    so not true... of course i'll hit this week 52, but for someone only doing emissary + weekly clears of raid will probably not hit 52 by ToS

    and for top guuilds, fighting for WF, every trait on the last trait matters, even if its only goes up by 200 stats...

    PS: I have a pally and i only do emissarys, well, he still at 44..
    4-5 Weeks before Tomb still. Another 6+ AK pickups before Tomb still.

    You don't need to be a math expert to know your numbers are not adding up to disproving anything. You basically proved my point, you're doing a very casual amount of content and almost have 52 already. Yet there is weeks before ToS still. There was never an "AP Grind" post 7.2. Blizzard specifically designed it so it wouldn't be a grind like the previous tier and and paragon was.

    And no, points past 52 really won't matter for ToS progression. Learn how the trait works. Go look at how many top raiders are "grinding" past 52. Most have immediately switched to OSs after ward.

  7. #247
    Quote Originally Posted by Unforgivenn View Post
    well, i just do all wq that gives ap + emissary + one mythic 8+ per week and i am still sitting at 51 (331m to 52)

    so not true... of course i'll hit this week 52, but for someone only doing emissary + weekly clears of raid will probably not hit 52 by ToS

    and for top guuilds, fighting for WF, every trait on the last trait matters, even if its only goes up by 200 stats...

    PS: I have a pally and i only do emissarys, well, he still at 44..
    Main reason why ppl don't care. Above is a casual player ilvl of toon possibly +900 or close. He/she ilvl in my opinion should be about 875 to 865 if it was like bc time. Why? He is not raiding he is not pushing. Why would he need higher ilvl? That is this guys end game

  8. #248
    If the system was like this at the start less people would've quit. The game is fucking barren right now

  9. #249
    Quote Originally Posted by BananaHandsB View Post
    I think you missed the part where this post was about top 100 guilds, who indeed have to grind AP to insane levels. That or just give up on world firsts, which is what many are doing.
    Even top 100 guilds aren't hard ap farming anymore, because it's a waste of time. They're better off spending that time aiming for gear upgrades, they'll get more dps out of it. Go have a look at AP gained for a lot of these top raiders, ofc you'll get a few who want to do the ap grind, like in Method, Verdiisha is 54, Gingi and Bluen 53, but the rest are 52-50. Because there' no point in grinding your heart out anymore, even for them.

  10. #250
    Quote Originally Posted by Ulfric Trumpcloak View Post
    The AP system forces you to play every day.
    If you still think this today you clearly haven't been playing the game.

    Quote Originally Posted by zezel81 View Post
    I feel it is a blizzard issue. Let's just make everyone new stronger than the vets of the game. It feels like a liberal person took over WoW.

    Why try?
    Because what you said isn't demonstrably true. Your opinion doesn't mean it's a fact.
    Last edited by arcaneshot; 2017-05-19 at 08:46 PM.

  11. #251
    Bloodsail Admiral bowchikabow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Floopa View Post
    yeah that insane 0.01% hp increase with each concordance point is huge....
    Yes, it can. More importantly, if you have a raid with 20 people.. and lets say none of them went past 51. They get their 2000 in primary stat, which is awesome. If that same group had 4 dps that went a 2nd point.. that is exponentially higher than just 200 primary stat per. Furthermore, having 20 people with an extra 200 primary stat makes a HUUGGEE difference. And that is just one point extra. Imagine 5 points? Now each person has 3000 instead of 2000. Still think it is meaningless?

    I'm not saying its a good thing, but I do wish people better understood big picture when it comes to stuff like this. An edge is an edge. the difference between world 1st, 2nd, and 10th might come down to those 200 or 400 primary stat points.
    "When you build it, you love it!"

  12. #252
    By the time we reach max. AK (50), the ToS race for the top guilds will already be over. It's a smart move by blizzard - every 10 hours you're spamming m+ for AP right now can be done in 2 hours or so once ToS is released, and further decrease over the heroic week and early mythic progression. The power increase per trait is also much, much lower compared to the old 0.5% damage + 0.75% stamina per level.

    There is no "you need 54 (old) traits to survive this random boss aoe", at new 52 traits you're pretty much capped hp wise, and the damage increase is barely noticeable. And even if there will be a crazy dps check, guilds will just bring 5 S2M spriests or whatever is broken by then, instead of farming good old AP.

  13. #253
    Quote Originally Posted by roi View Post
    There is no "you need 54 (old) traits to survive this random boss aoe", at new 52 traits you're pretty much capped hp wise, and the damage increase is barely noticeable. And even if there will be a crazy dps check, guilds will just bring 5 S2M spriests or whatever is broken by then, instead of farming good old AP.
    truer words never spoken.

  14. #254
    High Overlord Dialout's Avatar
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    People need to stop assuming these things happen *only* due to changes within the game and within Blizzard itself.

    Unless they make a statement regarding unhappiness with the current game's content, I would *assume* (and coming from numerous guilds/raid teams that have broken up, regardless of what level of content), it comes down to raid structure, schedules, and filling (then potentially playing catch-up with) empty slots (there's a joke in there somewhere).

    People also need to stop assuming that when top guild A recruits players from top guild B and then top guild B disbands or quits pursuing world firsts, that it's because top guild A "stole" those players.

    Unless you know these people on a personal level or have legitimate information proving why any of these scenarios happen, you're not really in a place to make accusations as to why you "know" (think) they happened.

    On that note: shit happens, people grow up and their priorities and perspective changes. Drama happens. Unhappiness with the current meta happens etc. It could be any number of reasons beyond "WoW is dying because top guilds A-D split up."

    I admire top end guilds, but they don't make the game what it cannot are they even the majority if the player base so as far as I'm concerned unless these teams are directly sponsored by Blizzard or Activision, neither company needs to be up in arms and concerned over a top end guild digressing or quitting. It's sad to hear, sure, but it doesn't signal the end of all things.

  15. #255
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Rafoel View Post
    Does ANYONE actually like the way top guilds play (14 hours of raid per day with short food breaks, months of prep with min/maxing of 7 different characters), including the people who play in them?
    The upside of doing it like that is the frustration from progress is very intese, but for a very short period. What I didn't like in casual raiding is that the progress never really ends.

    And talking from experience, some people do quit because they can't be assed with the heavy grind, which in turn makes other people leave because they go full ham, while others do it with half effort. So the people who go full ham look at the people who slacks and thinks to themselves why even bother.

  16. #256
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Nephcyte View Post
    Its not about John or LFR guy getting extremly lucky via RNG and getting those items. Its about mythic raiders being unable to obtain those items via progression and effort. (925)

    WF/TF should just have a cap based on difficulty you do and the system would be fine.
    Why not if the base item is 910 your TF prock will makes him 925 no mater of what and TF procks alot but not always 50-60 Ilvs above base item level.The problem here is old items take BTI trinket for example who you need to farm like idiot because if that thing procs 910 is beter than new trinkets
    Back to topic
    If top guilds thinks that farming AP is pain in the A because players there are forced to have 10 alts that is their own problem if they are usin only 1 main will have no problems at all yes maybe they will clear the raid for month instead for week but who cares in this way they will have much more competition
    Last edited by mmoc2b5ad7a33a; 2017-05-20 at 04:36 PM.

  17. #257
    I'd argue that it's just too demanding to play at that level, especially with the raiding playerbase aging. There's not exactly a ton of new blood in the scene and more of the veterans are just hitting their wall, whether it be from real life, game changes, or both.

    The start of Legion also caused hella burnout with the way AP/AK were handled alongside Mythic+. It's not near as bad now but the damage is pretty much done. Then when you start factoring in real life responsibilities, the length of time some of these guys have been playing at that hardcore pace, etc, it's no wonder.
    Quote Originally Posted by Connal View Post
    From my perspective it is an uncle who was is a "simple" slat of the earth person, who has religous beliefs I may or may not fully agree with, but who in the end of the day wants to go hope, kiss his wife, and kids, and enjoy their company.
    Connal defending child molestation

  18. #258
    My main is 10/10m, 913-917 ilvl, raiding 3 days a week on mythic and heroic on offnights, with mostly competent people
    My alt is 0/10m, 902-910 ilvl (lol 860 Arcanocrystal), raiding 1-2 days a week (mostly 1 now), with 30-40% of the raid being competent.

    I can't speak for top end guilds because they have a different goal in mind, but if you look at how many just top world 500 guilds have folded you would see that there is something going on.

    People raid (or just play the game) to improve their characters. Everyone that say they raid "just for the challenge" is not being completely honest with themselves. The item quality jump from each difficulty (LFR>Normal>Heroic>Mythic) is a constant 15 ilvl jump but the difficulty jump, especially from heroic to mythic, is much bigger than any of the 3 before. Despite that, previously you can raid Mythic and know that you are reliably getting the best gear, even if it is only 15 ilvl higher for a lot more work, and in WoD with Warforge the gap can get closed to 5. Now with TF/WF it just feels bad (however rare) when you wipe 100+ on a boss only to see (on yourself, your raid team, or just another person) identical item of better quality obtained from a lower difficulty because it Titanforged.

    The sense of player advancement is very convoluted, and when you couple that with stress of Mythic raiding, especially for officers that also need to set time aside to recruit people, only makes the Mythic raiding scene even more undesirable.

    I personally still raid Mythic because I like beating the game on the highest difficulty setting, for games I like, but Blizzard is just making the scene less and less attractive to me with convoluted rewards.

  19. #259
    the worst part about the game right now is relinquished arcanocrystal :thinking:

    this is the real reason why top guilds are quitting or going casual.
    Last edited by Floopa; 2017-05-20 at 05:38 PM.

  20. #260
    Quote Originally Posted by Tech614 View Post
    You can hit 52 points in wep just doing your weekly clears leading up to ToS, such a grind /facepalm. Still have another 4-5 weeks before ToS hits and even the super casuals are probably rocking 48 points in wep.
    My raiding main has 52 points in its main spec weapon, and I am notoriously casual on these forums.
    "There is a pervasive myth that making content hard will induce players to rise to the occasion. We find the opposite. " -- Ghostcrawler
    "The bit about hardcore players not always caring about the long term interests of the game is spot on." -- Ghostcrawler
    "Do you want a game with no casuals so about 500 players?"

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