8.0 What should be left behind

[Deleted]

That is really your opinion. I disagree completely, in fact I think there should be more RPG elements in the game.

That's also a solution. If the current system is removed and replaced by a more RPG one, I will be totally happy with that.

Removing Bags? How would we carry anything? .

With an inventory that isn't dependant on bags?

[Ehuehuecopter]

BAGS

Give us 40x4 BAGS and fuck off, give also a summonable bank like goblins one (if is still there) nobody care about summoning endless mount out of thin air.

PROFESSION

Really, Obliterum was a failure go back to TBC/WOTLK spec and try to fucking balance it.

FLYING

Give FLYING @Max level asap you ding, it is fine to gate behind "at least explore 3/4 of the -walkable- map assholes" ; no more rep/chain achiv, not everybody likes it and not everybody bother to get it as we saw with armory data.

Or if you want to make flying "gated" at least put some end content suited for flying, doing a quest in 2sec due to flying is turbo stupid.

[iamthedevil]

"Lets get rid of all the RPG elements of an MMORPG."

What a great idea.

[Pull My Finger]

How about no?

[Ehuehuecopter]

"Lets get rid of all the RPG elements of an MMORPG."

What a great idea.

There are less RPG element now than before.

Rogue poisons to craft before apply?

Hunter arrows/bullets?

Professions Spec?

Unique "spell/function" for class?

Exploration and Quest End game? Just fly and gg.




And suddenly the problems are "bags" and "cooking"



There are EVIDENT problem in Legion on the RPG aspect (class campaing + challenge for artifact skin + mount ARE A GOOD way to fix), yep if we compare to vanilla tbc woltk cata, we have done HUGE step forward, but some step backward too

[McFuu]

Old models

I don't disagree that the game needs an update, but for a 10+ year old game on an even older game engine, the game looks great. I think other than adding in more graphical "flair" here and there the only thing that will really update the game, is a new game. Honestly it doesn't need it, WoW has a charm, and all these better looking MMOs that continue to die show graphics mean little.

Bags

The bag system we have now is fine, it gives Tailors something to sell, if Legion even upgraded this. We have so much bag space now, does anyone even come close to running out of space?

Hearthstones

It's 1 slot, we aren't lacking for space.

Cooking fire
Forge and anvil requirements

Cooking fire doesn't take up any space and is a 2 second cast. Why get rid of something so ingrained in WoW for nothing better? Forge/Anvil same concept. It's part of the MMO world, not having them as requirements doesn't add anything to the game. QOL improvements need to actually add to the game, getting rid of gathering profession tools was an improvement, accidently selling your pickaxe or skinning knife was frustrating and happened. Honestly I think the system should be expanded, like with fishing, with mining tools, skinning knives that give + to skill or have other effects. The profession tab should have an equip slot for these items.

Flight paths

They are fine really, I think they are actually starting to add too many to the game. Everywhere you go there is a flight path now, most people just alt-tab anyway during flight. Leave it alone, changing this will only take away from the game experience.

The current talent system

Unless the game gets a major difficulty/power overhaul where a Path of Exile style system could work and truly free form characters would be viable for the majority of the game; the current system is actually pretty good. And even with a talent overhaul, there will always be a "right way" for the blind sheep.

Classes and specs

It's tough to address as you said. Really there should be more, not less. But some could be thrown away, kitty Druid doesn't need to exist, sub/ass rogue should be the same, arms/fury warrior could be combined and differentiated with talents, etc...

Weapon requirements for abilities

With the whole artifact system, this isn't even an issue. Lower levels it just matches class fantasy, which is a good thing. My warrior tank shouldn't be holding a two hand. It also avoids situations like weapon switch macros for rogues, even though they just blocked changing in combat. It also could somewhat help multiple class rolls on weapons. Playing enh shaman in Wrath was frustrating, ohh the weapon I wanted dropped, here is all the rogues rolling on it because it's a slight upgrade for them, even though its BiS for me.

Class trainers

They should give some of them something to do, some of them became loot pinatas after the quest that targeted them disappeared, hell one became Warchief. Definitely not delete them, I still like seeing them hanging around, they put in a lot of work in Vanilla onward, so I like to imagine that all their work has let them retire early, and now they like to stand around and BS with the other class trainers.

Epic mounts

Pet Journal and current mount mechanics have made these purely cosmetic, really there is nothing to change except going back on this feature. Which would piss too many people off because God forbid they earn the mount on the character they want to play it on.

Heirlooms

I think WoW's "alt friendly" environment is actually just a side effect of how easy it is to level, how little there is to do while leveling, and how little there is to do at max level. If the end game was more in depth there would be less people abusing low level heirlooms and zones.

copper and silver coins

This is really a non-issue, we've had a hundred expansion and the economy has inflated so much. But copper and silver are a harmless item to continue having, plus it will really screw up a lot of low level professions.

Bloodles, limbless, featherless quest mobs

Legacy quest design. It's really a non-issue, they've also cut down on this style quest or added other quests to coincide with this style search quest, making you stay in the same area anyway.

Quest lines that should be one quest in reality

These are for new players so they can get the FP for the capital city and get a quick look around. It's also an introduction to quest chains which to a veteran mmo player seems redundant, it helps new players understand the way the game will play out. Also on the occasional quest chain that just updates at a quest giver, it can be confusing on where to go next and you have to go searching through your quest journal to find the next part. When a new quest is added as opposed to an old updated, it usually stands out more, pops up on the side of the screen and you know your quest changed.

Dungeon and raid difficulties

LFR is fine for people who want to use it. Shit I use it, I usually play normal raiding at expansion release, but I always burn out and stop playing. I'm not going to see the rest of the raid content as conveniently as I can with LFR. Not everyone has time for raiding, LFR really does help on this front. Regardless of if it's an affront to your hardcore raiding roots. When I had time for Raiding in vanilla and TBC, I did. Now if I get to play for an hour I feel like all my bills haven't been paid in months.

Gimmicks that are only relevant for one expansion

I agree, but they also need something to draw people into the expansion. They've gotten increasingly worse though. Even though I didn't play during Pandaland, the farm wasn't an awful idea. From what I heard about it, it was basically an add-on to the experience but wasn't necessary. Garrisons sucked, I'm not a huge fan of artifact weapons, mainly because I like finding weapons and having my look based off of my actual weapons I'm using.
The only one I like is the Shadow Priest one, except it doesn't talk enough, so I stopped playing the class.

Random drop legendaries

They are trying to add new mechanics to the game, and in someways it's working giving classes a way to play differently, 2 MM Hunters can play differently now and still be effective because of legendaries. Before all MM Hunters would play the same with the same rotation because there was only one "right way" to play a class, as we discussed before.

[iamthedevil]

There are less RPG element now than before.

Rogue poisons to craft before apply?

Hunter arrows/bullets?

Professions Spec?

Unique "spell/function" for class?

Exploration and Quest End game? Just fly and gg.




And suddenly the problems are "bags" and "cooking"



There are EVIDENT problem in Legion on the RPG aspect (class campaing + challenge for artifact skin + mount ARE A GOOD way to fix), yep if we compare to vanilla tbc woltk cata, we have done HUGE step forward, but some step backward too

Yes, so then why gut even more of them? Most things they removed were for the better. But i mean come on, remove the fire from cooking? That's not quality of life like arrows, thats lazy. It's one click.

[Ehuehuecopter]

So QOL even for removing the useless "make campfire" if you can just use the toy.

Removing arrows/bullet for hunter was a stupid idea because a ranger class with ammo is just RPG.



Also some OP points are OK, other are just utterly trash talk.

[wulfnuts]

I always liked the whole Legendary weapon thing, like the warglaive/thunderfury/that bow/that one mace. but the problem i always had was that it was only for like 3 classes. i always thought it would be cool if you had like the same drop rate, but it was like a material that you can take to like khadgar or something, and he gives you a quest to turn it into a weapon for you, that way all classes have a chance.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

So QOL even for removing the useless "make campfire" if you can just use the toy.

Removing arrows/bullet for hunter was a stupid idea because a ranger class with ammo is just RPG.



Also some OP points are OK, other are just utterly trash talk.

It was tedious to suddenly run out of ammo during dungeon/raid or whatever your doing and having to restock. Not much engagement in doing such a thing.

[Danvash]

Gear


There are so many people who need gear and the only means of getting good raid gear is in the hands of the powerful elite who don't want anyone new to rise up to their level. What Blizzard should do is remove the loot system and make it so when an item drops, it goes to someone who really needs it automatically, even if the system has to find someone outside of the raid to give it to.

[Alvito]

Actually quite a lot can be done solo. Of course you will get subpar gear and will miss out on quite a bit of lore, but you can level alone. Not sure why someone would do that, but nothing is actually preventing it. If people could do pacifist runs, anything is possible.

There are plenty of things you can do in the game. They are also not what the game is designed around and isn't a new direction they should take with design. I am certainly not telling people not to play the game how they choose. What I am saying is Blizzard shouldn't fundamentally change the game to fit the wants of the few people that want it to go in a new direction.

- - - Updated - - -

You dont want to tell me a MMORPG is not also a RPG inherently, dont you?



You would not lose anything if the game was for a larger target audience. And Blizzard could address many more players and endure the game lifecycle a lot.

It is an RPG of sorts, a massive multiplayer online one to be exact. You want to reclassify it and turn it into your own private adventure. Big changes to design does take away from the current players too and you are assuming that this would somehow embolden new players to play. As you start knocking the legs out on the multiplayer features in the game you wittle away at everything as the game erodes then we are left with a big pile of solo player shit.

[Deleted]

Good list. I'll continue

Numbers
Let's be honest. Who gives a flying fuck about a specific number? If everything was percentage based, the whole game would be easier to balance. You hit a mob, dealing 10% of its health. If it's a boss, that's 0.01%. You get the idea. Numbers are meaningless

Stats
Honestly, who wants stats? What's even the point? You get a piece of gear, it has stats, big deal. Why not just have Power+ system? A gear has power+2. You get a drop that has power+3, you see right away that it's an upgrade. So on and so forth. Nobody wants to deal with shit like haste, crit or mastery. You look up the correct values from the internet anyway, makes no difference. Just use power and make our characters more powerful with every equipment

Chat
Let's face it, it's toxic. Most of it is pure cancer. What do we need it for, anyway? If you're doing hard content, you use voip. Nobody uses trade, nobody uses general, god knows half of the playerbase doesn't even know Local Defense exists. What's the point of chats again?

The world
Yes, it might've been important at some point. But modern WoW is all about the gameplay; why not just have a menu where you click what you want to do and the game teleports you to an instanced version of it? Who wants to waste time travelling, when you could just click a button? An outdated mechanic, to be sure

NPC dialogue
Again, a blast from the past. Once upon a time this was an RPG, but not anymore. Who even reads these things? All they do is make you waste an extra click

Leveling
Am I right ladies? Would you rather just right into the great action Blizzard provides at high level, or waste your time sluggishly going through the old, out-dated content? Yeah I think we all know the answer to that

Dungeons requiring actual players
Simmer down back there, it's not what you think. Dungeons should be solo-able, with the game providing bots to fulfill the role which you aren't. Why should solo players be left out on all the awesome group content Blizzard works so hard to provide? They shouldn't

No auto-pilot
Srs. What is this, what the fuck is this? I know my rotation, I fucking live and breath it. So what's the point of doing it? 1, 2, 3, 2, 3, 1, repeat. Yawn. The hard part is positioning anyway so why am I required to play this stupid minigame with my buttons? Literally pointless, anyone could do it. So just let the computer do it. Wake up, it's 2017

[Sastank]

Lol so you want to play a different game? Go find it.

[Deleted]

From the title, i thought this was going to be about what to keep from legion.

I am still gonna make that post.

What i would like to see kept from legion:

Brawls
They mix things up and usually negate the group up and zerg tactics that dominate bg's.

The prestige system and ilvl dictating your pvp power

Invasions. Like from various forces instead of the legion. Give life to the world.
World quests. Not the static ones, the ones in invasions. I hate having a bunch of world quests to do at the same time and constantly repeating. If its a temporary thing, i become more motivated to do it, and the rewards could be buffed more. Remember Fun > Repetition.

Class halls They give class identity.
Mission table. I know alot of people aren't fans but i love this mini-game. I would just say not to tie it to progression.
Reputation rewards past cap

Now for negativity:
Remove random drop legendaries.
Remove titanforged
reduce the number of raid difficulties or lock them.
As a mythic raider it pains me to say, but make mythic flex. It doesn't matter if it gets a bit easier. Guilds can't keep up with people leaving and it would allow those smaller 10m groups to finally have their due back. Just make achievements bound to the number you want, if you must really challenge top guilds.
AP. Burn it with fire. You can have a progression system with catch up mechanisms but with slow progress that people can't just brute force grind. Have people do their daily or their weekly and have the choice to stack them and get only 1 progression point from it. Actually, you could do the story campaigns be this. Again fun > repetition.
Mythic + needs a weekly lock. Again fun > repetitions. You wan't your players to regularly log in and do fun activities. You don't want to bore them with X activity ad nauseum.

[Deleted]

I haven't had a heartstone in my inventory since they added archeology. Kinda agree on bags, but they are there more for immersion, for whatever it's worth, same as anvils.

Kinda surprised you are not getting inched alive for suggesting to remove cooking fire, I think it has bigger fan base than Arthas, Illidan and murlocks combined.

Some quests would benefit from a second look, but it's a lot of work for next to no pay off.

Would agree on the flightpaths, we have enough examples that it can be done way faster. Maybe a gold purchase, akin to riding skill?

Legendaries will not stay the same, I'm 90% sure of that, too much backlash overall. Still, a valuable experiment.

Rest of your suggestions sound nonsensical to me.


What I personally would like to see go:

Titanforged system, or at least impose heavy restriction, like the max level is normal raid gear, no TF in heroic and mythic. If m+ dungeons stay, let their gear reach heroic raid level.

World quests. Sure, it's a better system than daily quests, but it's still daily quests in disguise.

Endless farming. I actually like the artifact trait system, but I do not like how 54 in 7.1 was unreachable without extensive m+ farm or how it's impossible to max out current weapons, even at AK 50. Let there be a reachable goal, it always feels better.

Separate, clearly distinguished zones. It had to be done in the past, but I think technology now allows us to have one big zone for the continent, where landscape and flora changes naturally and actually make sense from a geographical point of view?

[Deleted]

It is an RPG of sorts

I am happy you agree. So your idea about turning a racing game and a first person shooter was a void argument. Dont compare apples with oranges.

You want to reclassify it and turn it into your own private adventure.

No, i want to play a RPG as an RPG. Just that it allows group play, but moves away from group play to be mandatory to get anywhere close to endgame character progression.

A nice example is The Elder Scrolls Online, where you are able to craft your best gear. And where you progress no matter what you actually play.

Big changes to design does take away from the current players too and you are assuming that this would somehow embolden new players to play.

I dont believe that it would take away any players just because the progression system would make grouping up optional.

As you start knocking the legs out on the multiplayer features in the game you wittle away at everything as the game erodes then we are left with a big pile of solo player shit.

Rise, Lord Miserable.

[Alvito]

I am happy you agree. So your idea about turning a racing game and a first person shooter was a void argument. Dont compare apples with oranges.



No, i want to play a RPG as an RPG. Just that it allows group play, but moves away from group play to be mandatory to get anywhere close to endgame character progression.

A nice example is The Elder Scrolls Online, where you are able to craft your best gear. And where you progress no matter what you actually play.



I dont believe that it would take away any players just because the progression system would make grouping up optional.



Rise, Lord Miserable.

There you go you said it yourself you like ESO system, sounds like your problem is solved. Have fun.

[Deleted]

There you go you said it yourself you like ESO system, sounds like your problem is solved. Have fun.

Is ESO playing in the world of warcraft? Is it an azeroth RPG?

I love it when it is so easy to refute arguments.

[toxicrusader]

Old models

This one is obvious. The game is old. The graphics are old. An engine update is long overdue. But that can't happen in a simple expansion. What can be done is to update all the NPC , gear and monster models that haven't been updated in the recent expansions. You might not think it is a big deal that kids still look like the way they did in Vanilla for example, but it totally is. Also, throw out the cataclysm leveling gear. Ditching all the unique looking equipment in favour of generic stuff that don't fit any racial or class aesthetics was a mistake. Let's take the engine as far as possible.

The current talent system

AKA the only thing I really disliked about MoP. Hey, we threw out the old talent system because there was a "correct way" to allocate talent points and we want to avoid that. Well news flash. That's still a thing. Also we don't get talents at the same intervals. For non hero classes it's mostly every 15 levels with the last comming after 10. But for Death Knights it is a total clusterfuck. 56, 57, 58, 60, 75, 90, 100. Let's try again, shall we? Or if they really don't want correct and incorrect ways, let's just forget about talents.

Weapon requirements for abilities

No, I don't want to decapitate mobs with arrows, but when every warrior skill needs a two handed weapon, but all quest rewards are one handed I start to get irritated. Let's forget about this nonsense and just go with melee weapon, ranged weapon, dual wield and shield.

Class trainers

You know. All the NPCs that are still present but have absolutely no use. It would be nice to give them class quest that reward core abilities or gear. If not, remove them.

Bloodless, limbless, featherless quest mobs

You know these types of quests. Get ten wolf paws. Okay. But only every third wolf has a paw and even they have only one. I know this extends game time and maintains the illusion of content, but it is still super irritating. And Final Fantasy XIV does not do it.

Quest lines that should be one quest in reality

The typical: we have tons of new quests lie. Well that's cool. Provided there aren't quests like: go talk to this guy right next to me. The flight path introduction quest goes like this. 1. go to the flight master. 2. fly to the capital and talk to the merchant. 3. go to the capital flight master. 4. talk to the original quest giver. Four quests that should be one.

Dungeon and raid difficulties

Pitchfork time, I know. But seriously. Do we need four difficulties for dungeons and raids? Nah. That's just the illusion of having more content, when in fact we don't. Having normal and mythic + is more than enough for one dungeon. When Final Fantasy XIV does a hard mode of a dungeon it is continues the story of the regular one and uses a different layout, with new bosses. Like old and new deadmines. Also, ditch LFR ASAP. I am perfectly fine with raiding being too difficult for me. No need to dumb it down to a level where you can kill Archimonde at level 100 without paying attention to what you are doing. Raids aren't meant to be facerolled.


Gimmicks that are only relevant for one expansion

A no brainer really. Garrisons are only used between 90 and 100. We already know that artifact weapons won't stick around after 110. I know nothing can be done retroactively, but I really really really hope that the next expansion won't bring a new system that is only used for 10 levels out of 120.


Random drop legendaries

Nope. Bad idea. Nothing legendary about them now. Let's go back to insanely long difficult questlines.

With these I can agree, specially about the old models, RNG legendaries and garrisons.