Professor claims all white men should quit or be demoted

[Dextroden]

Sigh. Is it really that hard to comprehend? I can agree with the basic assumption without automatically agreeing with all the conclusion she draws.

Btw. the text gets much more interesting if it isn't dissected by a story trying to spin a narrative based on the most outrageous passages.

If i would read the original i would also find this:

"This is a blog post, an opinion piece, and a provocation to think. As Piper says, it is about “shifting perspective”. It is not being written by a university president, nor is it something we are acting upon. We are not actually firing anyone. A common argumentation device is to take something to the extreme to really help us do the shifting (and often with things regarding race and gender, this is an effective device, albeit upsetting for some). This also does not necessarily represent the opinions of the AMS and its members, it represents the point of view of the editors of this particular blog."

It is provocative, and i don't agree with every conclusion the author draws, but that's the essence of honest discussion. Just ripping it apart, spinning it and crying "look at the stupid SJW" may be a nice entertainment for some here, but if that's the case this whole discussion is unnecessary, and we can just circle-jerk about leftist. Isn't it?

I'm sure she had honest discussion on her mind. It's not like shit like this is a holdover for blaming all your ills on the white man. She seems to be in a fanfuckingtastic position despite the white man holding her back.

Also, do you try to have an honest discussion with the guy saying African Americans are destroying their own communities? If not, you're full of shit. And I'm sure that guy has an opinion blog, too. So, everyone should work to understand him instead, right?

[Pannonian]

I'm sure she had honest discussion on her mind. It's not like shit like this is a holdover for blaming all your ills on the white man. She seems to be in a fanfuckingtastic position despite the white man holding her back.

Also, do you try to have an honest discussion with the guy saying African Americans are destroying their own communities? If not, you're full of shit. And I'm sure that guy has an opinion blog, too. So, everyone should work to understand him instead, right?

"We are not actually firing anyone. A common argumentation device is to take something to the extreme to really help us do the shifting " - again, if you just take the blog that uses hyperbole word by word, yeah - its stupid. but that wasn't the intention. Of course you can deny this, but then we have no basis to talk to begin with.

Again, hard for me to compare, but i'll try: If you mean that i try to have a honest discussion with someone that has completely different world views. Yes, i actually do. In my case that would probably be anti-islam/refugee people. They have arguments, and they have their reasons to come to their conclusions. Outright dismissing them...not really my style.

[tehealadin]

Indeed, justice is punishing people for the crimes of others who share similar physical characteristics that they had no say in having. Someone who looks a bit like me did something bad to someone who looks a bit like you, therefore I owe you a debt. Justice.

[Dextroden]

"We are not actually firing anyone. A common argumentation device is to take something to the extreme to really help us do the shifting " - again, if you just take the blog that uses hyperbole word by word, yeah - its stupid. but that wasn't the intention. Of course you can deny this, but then we have no basis to talk to begin with.

Again, hard for me to compare, but i'll try: If you mean that i try to have a honest discussion with someone that has completely different world views. Yes, i actually do. In my case that would probably be anti-islam/refugee people. They have arguments, and they have their reasons to come to their conclusions. Outright dismissing them...not really my style.

I don't care about the school covering it's ass.

Actually listen to a minority that lives here. People like her actually believe the garbage from her mouth. People pretend like it's still the 60s while enjoying modern protections. Do you really think people say shit like this to have a conversation? You disagree with sins of the father but apparently ignored her"pay back the debt" statement. What debt and who owes it?

But please. Tell me how you understand American race relations SOOOO well.

[Pannonian]

Honestly, if you just read the butchered version of this spinsite you cannot really talk about the content of the actual blog. I challenge, you read the blog, and then i will gladly lay out where in my opinion she's right and wrong, but just based on this clearly biased article.

Just to give you an example. The most damning abstract:

I know you’re not going to quit your job, but I want you to understand that you should. And to understand that by keeping your job and your other unearned privileges, you are running a continued debt to marginalized people and you should always be seeking ways to pay us back.

conveniently leaves out the sentence just before (which would've been the whole block):

This is not about shame or guilt. Those things are useless. This is about shifting perspective. I know you’re not going to quit your job, but I want you to understand that you should. And to understand that by keeping your job and your other unearned privileges, you are running a continued debt to marginalized people and you should always be seeking ways to pay us back.

which completely changes the message. So please, read the actual blog, and if you don't agree that's fine. But the article in the OP is just a butchered version to stir shit up.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't care about the school covering it's ass.

Actually listen to a minority that lives here. People like her actually believe the garbage from her mouth. People pretend like it's still the 60s while enjoying modern protections. Do you really think people say shit like this to have a conversation? You disagree with sins of the father but apparently ignored her"pay back the debt" statement. What debt and who owes it?

But please. Tell me how you understand American race relations SOOOO well.

I don't have to agree with paying back the debts, because SHE doesn't do it. Please read her blog, she uses this hyperbole to get her message across.

And no, i don't claim to understand american race relations well, in fact i already denied it. What i do understand is discrimination, because that happens here to, but differently, just that the results are the same.

Really, read the article, try to understand it, and it is much less outrageous than the OP wants you make believe.

[Independent voter]

A University of Hawaii assistant math professor who holds a PhD degree in mathematics from Princeton University has a new racist equation she wants to promote: white + man + job = her order for white males to quit or be demoted.

Piper Harron wrote on a blog for the American Mathematical Society (AMS), titling her piece, “Get Out The Way.”

She was being politically incorrect, telling it like it is. I'm not saying she's right but I'm sure she's sincere, she's not trolling she's just saying what she believes.

[Dextroden]

Honestly, if you just read the butchered version of this spinsite you cannot really talk about the content of the actual blog. I challenge, you read the blog, and then i will gladly lay out where in my opinion she's right and wrong, but just based on this clearly biased article.

Just to give you an example. The most damning abstract:

I know you’re not going to quit your job, but I want you to understand that you should. And to understand that by keeping your job and your other unearned privileges, you are running a continued debt to marginalized people and you should always be seeking ways to pay us back.

conveniently leaves out the sentence just before (which would've been the whole block):

This is not about shame or guilt. Those things are useless. This is about shifting perspective. I know you’re not going to quit your job, but I want you to understand that you should. And to understand that by keeping your job and your other unearned privileges, you are running a continued debt to marginalized people and you should always be seeking ways to pay us back.

which completely changes the message. So please, read the actual blog, and if you don't agree that's fine. But the article in the OP is just a butchered version to stir shit up.

- - - Updated - - -



I don't have to agree with paying back the debts, because SHE doesn't do it. Please read her blog, she uses this hyperbole to get her message across.

And no, i don't claim to understand american race relations well, in fact i already denied it. What i do understand is discrimination, because that happens here to, but differently, just that the results are the same.

Really, read the article, try to understand it, and it is much less outrageous than the OP wants you make believe.

I gave her until she went on a tangent about family structures. What the fuck does this have to do with the topic?

Note:

I wonder if she'll quit her job because of her Princeton PhD being made on the backs of others.

[Pannonian]

She uses hyperbole (every man should quit) to describe her theory of how discriminatory principles effect the society. That would be a thought experiment.

Like say some scientist wants to describe a problem in quantum mechanics. Therefore he argues about a cat in a box. That would be a thought experiment.

Now i can argue against her theory on basis of her assumptions, like i can argue about the cat in the box.

But just butchering the article and being outraged, is like PETA attacking Schördinger for the treatment of the cat. It isn't based on reality and is just outrage for the sake of it.

- - - Updated - - -

I gave her until she went on a tangent about family structures. What the fuck does this have to do with the topic?

Note:

I wonder if she'll quit her job because of her Princeton PhD being made on the backs of others.

That would probably imply this, as she as a privileged member of society is also leeching on some lees fortunate people. That's the whole point of it. Everyone of us profits from someone else. At least i would include everyone from europe/USA in this. I dont argue for crushing the system, but for the awareness to not built on it further. In this case i probably disagree with her, but i can understand her point.

[Dextroden]

She uses hyperbole (every man should quit) to describe her theory of how discriminatory principles effect the society. That would be a thought experiment.

Like say some scientist wants to describe a problem in quantum mechanics. Therefore he argues about a cat in a box. That would be a thought experiment.

Now i can argue against her theory on basis of her assumptions, like i can argue about the cat in the box.

But just butchering the article and being outraged, is like PETA attacking Schördinger for the treatment of the cat. It isn't based on reality and is just outrage for the sake of it.

- - - Updated - - -



That would probably imply this, as she as a privileged member of society is also leeching on some lees fortunate people. That's the whole point of it. Everyone of us profits from someone else. At least i would include everyone from europe/USA in this. I dont argue for crushing the system, but for the awareness to not built on it further. In this case i probably disagree with her, but i can understand her point.

What can universities do? Well, that’s easier. Stop hiring white cis men (except as needed to get/retain people who are not white cis men) until the problem goes away. If you think this is a bad or un-serious idea, your sexism/racism/transphobia is showing.

It is worth considering your complaints. Are you worried it’s unfair to men? Are you concerned the quality if your institution would plummet? Are you worried about all the brilliant minds you’d be missing? List your reasons and ask yourself which ones you’d value over your own freedom. Women are not free, and even our allies tend to only want us equal-ish. As long as we get there on their terms, as long as they lose nothing.

If you are on a hiring committee, and you are looking at applicants and you see a stellar white male applicant, think long and hard about whether your department needs another white man. You are not hiring a researching robot who will output papers from a dark closet. You are hiring an educator, a role model, a spokesperson, an advisor, a committee person. When you hire a non-marginalized person, you are not just supporting this one applicant whom you like, you are rewarding a person who has been rewarded his whole life. You are justifying the system that makes his application look so good. You are not innocent. You are perpetuating a system that requires your participation if not your consent. When your female students of color have no role models in your department, that’s not “meritocracy”; that’s on you. Again, if you think the “great mathematicians” are disproportionately male because of meritocracy, then your sexism is showing.

I'm not feeling moved by her as I keep reading.

[Pannonian]

I'm not feeling moved by her as I keep reading.

That's your right. If we would all agree this would be a very boring planet, but its a big difference between disagreeing and just taking snippets and be outraged about it.

I actually think you made a very strong point with her leeching off of others, which of course is true for everyone in western society. I also think she's a bit self-righteous to just skip over this.

[Macnessa]

She was being politically incorrect, telling it like it is. I'm not saying she's right but I'm sure she's sincere, she's not trolling she's just saying what she believes.

Well except let's say a white guy would respond to her saying that she only got to where she was cause of her skin color due to affirmative action, along with also saying that many qualified white people are denied jobs due to affirmative action.

Like how you claim she is saying just what she believes and is just be politically incorrect, for the white guy, he would be seen as a racist bigot and not as "politically incorrect and just what he believes".

[Dextroden]

That's your right. If we would all agree this would be a very boring planet, but its a big difference between disagreeing and just taking snippets and be outraged about it.

I actually think you made a very strong point with her leeching off of others, which of course is true for everyone in western society. I also think she's a bit self-righteous to just skip over this.

Here's a great theory. She's trying to give herself an easier time getting jobs/promotions by getting her coworkers fired/to quit.

[Pannonian]

Well except let's say a white guy would respond to her saying that she only got to where she was cause of her skin color due to affirmative action, along with also saying that many qualified white people are denied jobs due to affirmative action.

Like how you claim she is saying just what she believes and is just be politically incorrect, for the white guy, he would be seen as a racist bigot and not as "politically incorrect and just what he believes".

But that's just guessing? She may be in her position because of her skin color, or despite it. Both could be possible. The same goes for every white dude. You cannot judge a person. What you can say: Statistically speaking white men will profit of their skin color. Also, and i will say this as white dude: Statistically speaking black people with lower skills than their competition got the job because of the skin color.

The difference is if you use it to attack a person, or to describe a system.

(and yeah, there are extreme left people who will still call this racists, which i response to with calling them idiots)

- - - Updated - - -

Here's a great theory. She's trying to give herself an easier time getting jobs/promotions by getting her coworkers fired/to quit.

Seems unlikely to me, as i cannot imagine that there a really people that would quit their jobs over this. Because either they deny her theory and would therefore never do it, or like in my case, agreeing with her theory but seeing the hyperbole as it is. Maybe there are people who are that weak minded, but i cannot imagine them being in high positions to begin with. Anyway, you can of course have your own theory and i will gladly talk about other concerns, just as long as we aren't stuck in outrage-mode

[Dextroden]

But that's just guessing? She may be in her position because of her skin color, or despite it. Both could be possible. The same goes for every white dude. You cannot judge a person. What you can say: Statistically speaking white men will profit of their skin color. Also, and i will say this as white dude: Statistically speaking black people with lower skills than their competition got the job because of the skin color.

The difference is if you use it to attack a person, or to describe a system.

(and yeah, there are extreme left people who will still call this racists, which i response to with calling them idiots)

- - - Updated - - -



Seems unlikely to me, as i cannot imagine that there a really people that would quit their jobs over this. Because either they deny her theory and would therefore never do it, or like in my case, agreeing with her theory but seeing the hyperbole as it is. Maybe there are people who are that weak minded, but i cannot imagine them being in high positions to begin with. Anyway, you can of course have your own theory and i will gladly talk about other concerns, just as long as we aren't stuck in outrage-mode

What's to be outraged about? It's just the continued acceptance of racism against whites in higher education. You kind of have to accept the idea racism is fine now.

[Deleted]

We do not allow threads/discussions about race.

Closing.