insane ilvl reqs vs low ilvl dps

[Reofrax]

In order to do this you'd need to get titanforged on all pieces, get 2 legendaries, get 3 relics of different kinds, etc, thats a lot of things to go right and a lot of items in 5-6 days. I'm not saying I don't believe you but people claim a lot of things to bash someone who has a opinion about something

in 1 reset, you can do the following: heroic spam during downtime (nothing to group for), wqs for a few pieces MAYBE, ALL mythic0+s, if you get lucky you can do a m+ key or two (your own, invite higher geared players obviously), ALL LFRS, n/hc EN, n/hc ToV - get lucky enough in these things prior you can do a NH N run, then theres the random dauntless drop that CAN titanforge, Sentinax farming and nethershard turning for 880+ item.
im not saying this is easy or not time consuming, but its possible and you dont need titanforge on literally every piece.
doing this during emissary of war week is a big bonus. i got 875 in 10 hours without doing nearly half of this last reset.

[gushDH]

Since 900+ will anyway sign up, might as well ask for it. Because everything is relevant now, from mythic +0, that's why people ask for 900.

[Ichifails]

If the stat balance is managed properly a ilvl 880 player can out dps a ilvl 900 by huge amount..

The 95th percentile players at 880 ilvl do 550k TOP and 509k on average.

The 20th percentile players at 900 ilvl do 565k TOP and 490k on average.
The 95th percentile players at 900 ilvl do 900k TOP and 823k on average.

So what you said is factually untrue. Why the fuck would I risk taking someone at 880ilvl that even if he is close to perfection he'll perform almost the same as someone at 900 ilvl that clicks buttons from time to time while being afk half the fight.

You wanted a % difference between 880 and 900 players of the same skill? 61.8%... not 30%, SIXTY FUCKING ONE POINT EIGHT PERCENT.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I would perhaps understand demanding something around 900 ilvl for NH HC, but 890 is enough for this. Same goes for mythic+, they all demand such high ilvl because the expansion is going on for a while now and getting ilvl 900 isn't a big feet anymore.

But you're right that i also have seen groups that go like m+ 8 and demand 900 ilvl, which is really dumb, often you will also join raid groups where the leader himself either does no dmg/heal at all and isn't even ilvl 900.

Just try more, maybe get some friends that have around that ilvl and will help you get your gear further up, you could also try to get some ilvl via PVP.

But what difference does it make what any of us think about how someone else makes their group? They get to make their group their way, and we get to make our groups our way. What could be more fair?

[Ichifails]

That was the point I wanted to make thanks. 900 on a rogue can be the 870 of a mage easily.

The maximum a mage spec at 870 can do in Nighthold is 516k, ilvl 900 rogues of the same skill do 878k, 993k and 1058k on average.
50th percentile ilvl 870 mages can do 453k(275k on average) and ilvl 900 rogues at 50th percentile do 577k, 604k and 663 on average.

So yeaaaaah, no.

[W1shm4ster]

But what difference does it make what any of us think about how someone else makes their group? They get to make their group their way, and we get to make our groups our way. What could be more fair?

I tend to not try to demand things i don't have myself.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

If only select people got to start groups in group finder, I would understand why we all deserved to kibitz on how they do it. Given that we al have equal access and equal freedom to start groups for whatever activity and with whatever requirements we think are appropriate, I really feel it's "To each their own."

Another way to think of it:
Pugging through group finder is Free Market grouping. If you want Socialized grouping, where the haves are responsible for looking after the have-nots, then join a guild. That's what they are for.

[Beckers]

You can't get 895 in a few days by nethershards or by any means unless you got boosted.. Also I did mention that I tried making a group but no healer or tank joins, so what can I do.

Yes you can, since 7.2 it's super easy with shards.

[Jtbrig7390]

Well, yeah. Isn't it kinda obvious?

At lease u admit it and by admitting it you also admit that just looking at ilvl is stupid.

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Yes, that's a good idea.
Or you know, you could just set ridiculously high itemlevel and fill your raid even quicker without all that hazzle.

And as I have already proven ilvl doesn't mean dick.

[Baconeggcheese]

Am I just another lower ilvl DPS in a unlimited pool of 900+ super experienced dpsers?

This would be it, even if you *can* do it you'll likely lack experience and not be up to date with strats etc and people will have to spend time on you. Most people value their time and have their own goals in mind, so they go with the thing that'll make the most efficient use of their time.

Really I'll echo many others and say the best course of action is to find yourself a guild of like minded players. The entire concept of mmo's is to be social games as much as people try to push back against that. You can either put in the time and effort to find a group of like minded people to run with regularly, or waste time attempting to find a new group of like minded people every single time you play through the group finder. Up to you.

[Puri]

And as I have already proven ilvl doesn't mean dick.

As others have shown it obviously does.

[Mlz]

I join as high-ilvl requirement (905/910+) groups as possible for N/HC runs on my main but on my alts that don't have that kind of an ilvl I join those that require 880+ or so. Both groups get applicants and I'd argue that the higher ones fill up even faster. Also, the speed they clear the content at is quite different - N NH takes about 40 minutes with high ilvl groups while lower ones tend to take hours (2-3+). Furthermore, I can't remember the last time I wiped on anything on my main and the groups stayed intact till the end while lower groups tended to break up - needless to explain why I thoroughly enjoy the high-ilvl groups more. So, there's enough interested playerbase for high ilvl requirement groups and if you are 880 ilvl and just returned, you're probably not their target-audience anyway. Just find a lower group - there are plenty if you actually stick around and refresh the group finder. They just take a lot longer to clear stuff, have wipes and more often than not disband at some point, so be prepared for that. Or as suggested - make your own group/join a guild.

[Tech614]

And as I have already proven ilvl doesn't mean dick.

The 95th percentile players at 880 ilvl do 550k TOP and 509k on average.

The 20th percentile players at 900 ilvl do 565k TOP and 490k on average.
The 95th percentile players at 900 ilvl do 900k TOP and 823k on average.

So what you said is factually untrue. Why the fuck would I risk taking someone at 880ilvl that even if he is close to perfection he'll perform almost the same as someone at 900 ilvl that clicks buttons from time to time while being afk half the fight.

You wanted a % difference between 880 and 900 players of the same skill? 61.8%... not 30%, SIXTY FUCKING ONE POINT EIGHT PERCENT.

Now did you really prove that? Because it seems the opposite happened.

[Magicpot]

Nethershards.

Also do a reg mythic and get your own key to form groups for. Make your own NH groups.

I wouldn't invite an 882 dps to anything these days in spite of it being high enough for a lot of stuff. Why? Because I can make an alt 895+ in the span of a few days if I wanted to.

If you have a group to boost you in NH hc or high lvl m+ dungeons. Otherwise, no way to gear an alt in 895 in a couple days. Specially not if these couple days don't also include 2 legendaries dropping.

[Daffan]

It's easy to understand;

The welfare in this game has made EVERYONES base ilvl way higher then normal/should be

Why would they pick someone who is 880 when 900 is so easy to get

[Tech614]

If you have a group to boost you in NH hc or high lvl m+ dungeons. Otherwise, no way to gear an alt in 895 in a couple days. Specially not if these couple days don't also include 2 legendaries dropping.

Rogue hit 892 within 40 hours of dinging 110, and no it never got boosted. Sorry try again.

Also if you don't get 2 legos in a couple of days you're not doing content to get gear anyways. The first 2 are basically free handouts at this point.

[Magicpot]

Rogue hit 892 within 40 hours of dinging 110, and no it never got boosted. Sorry try again.

Also if you don't get 2 legos in a couple of days you're not doing content to get gear anyways. The first 2 are basically free handouts at this point.

Pray then, how did you gear your rogue? Farm sentinax for 38 of those 40 hours?

[Eggroll]

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Time. Time is the real life resource you spend playing video games. I found that being bad at what you do means you'll spend a lot more time doing that.

Yeah, but how much "more time" could it be in an m+ like Maw? Three minutes? Five? I mean, playing video games is in it self no "efficient" way to spend your time if you are looking at it like that...

[ReD-EyeD]

At lease u admit it and by admitting it you also admit that just looking at ilvl is stupid.

What? No. What logic is this? Why would I invite a 880 guy who can POSSIBLY dps like 900 when I can easily invite 910 who would do at least the level of 900?

[krille20]

I'd recommend, like others already said, that you do a regular mythic so you get a key (pretty sure you'll get one guaranteed) and then you pug for that key and they can't kick you since its your key. 882 is definitely enough for a regular mythic.