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  1. #1
    Banned Gandrake's Avatar
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    i dont get the opposition to parsing in FFXIV

    the most common excuse is harassment but man i can tell you i really dont need a parser to tell that someone is doing really low damage and to be annoyed by it. i mean damn lol shouldn't we be telling Dragoons their AoE DPS is trash because they are spamming ring of thorns since they never noticed doom spike has a potency of 160? You'd kick a tank or healer without hesitation for not being able to fulfill the duty they queued as... why wouldn't you kick a DPS for the same thing?

    is what it really boils down to that being a dps is a "safe zone" for poor performance in spite of taking up the most critical role in a group's success?

    I mean... I can't help but laugh when there is a dps problem and I am doing 50% damage and the other bard passive aggressively asks me why I am using foes then motions a vote abandon when I tell him "because it's free damage". After dragging all 700 of his dps through sohm al this fucking boo boo ass bitch midget motherfucker is going to act like he was doing 1700 dps and I was doing 300? When he can't even read a tooltip?

    and i'm not even allowed to tell him how bad his damage really was.

    now in this scenario everyone has wasted their time because nobody had the balls to kick the McShitDPS Supreme. But if your healer or tank was doing that bad of a job they would have been kicked so much sooner.
    Last edited by Gandrake; 2017-05-20 at 09:16 AM.

  2. #2
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    Because it's a dick move and creates a toxic atmosphere with people parsing logs constantly in chat to belitte other people, something wow suffers greatly from. You don't wanna deal with shit dps, you go with your guild

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    After dragging all 700 of his dps through sohm al this fucking boo boo ass bitch midget motherfucker is going to act like he was doing 1700 dps and I was doing 300? When he can't even read a tooltip?

    and i'm not even allowed to tell him how bad his damage really was.

    now in this scenario everyone has wasted their time because nobody had the balls to kick the McShitDPS Supreme. But if your healer or tank was doing that bad of a job they would have been kicked so much sooner.
    Without any snark this kind of reaction is why.

  4. #4
    Banned Gandrake's Avatar
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    when dps players aren't doing their job it's "toxicity" to remove them from party

    but when a tank or healer isn't doing their job, it's a necessity

    explain that for me

    Without any snark this kind of reaction is why
    *shrug* its not like i said anything to him

    i'm way more bothered by the ungrateful attitude than shit dps. i don't just go around telling everyone their dps is shit, not everyone is a great player and that is ok. but i think that people should know where they stand before they speak.
    Last edited by Gandrake; 2017-05-20 at 09:34 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    when dps players aren't doing their job it's "toxicity" to remove them from party

    but when a tank or healer isn't doing their job, it's a necessity

    explain that for me
    Yes it is, according to SE guidelines. You think they're doing a subpar job of their role? Leave. Maybe from failing continously they'll eventually learn and adapt themselves to what's going on.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    Yes it is, according to SE guidelines. You think they're doing a subpar job of their role? Leave. Maybe from failing continously they'll eventually learn and adapt themselves to what's going on.
    when dps players aren't doing their job it's "toxicity" to remove them from party

    but when a tank or healer isn't doing their job, it's a necessity
    Since you can't read I re-quoted that post. Now try again and actually answer the question now instead of trying to change the conversation.

    Why is there this double standard where tanks/healers are on the hot plate and dps get to do whatever they want?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenryusho View Post
    Since you can't read I re-quoted that post. Now try again and actually answer the question now instead of trying to change the conversation.

    Why is there this double standard where tanks/healers are on the hot plate and dps get to do whatever they want?
    Because you can't kick dps without having knowledge about what dps is not up to par, unless you wanna name the person which again is against the rules and is "dps" shaming which SE doesn't want. It's really simple

  8. #8
    DPS meter is creating a "competition" among the team where there shouldn't been any. Yes you can already tell a bad DPS but this only when said DPS is under performing by a lot... lets say he is at least 40-50% lower than normal.

    DPS meters create a game within a game. Even the most matured players will cave in and stair at the meters, trying to "fix" the 5-10% loss dps, ignoring/failing at some boss mechanics.

    We dont need e-peen competition. Find out the very low DPS is easy enough without any parse/meter...
    Last edited by papajohn4; 2017-05-21 at 05:47 AM.
    The trick of selling a FFA-PvP MMO is creating the illusion among gankers that they are respectable fighters while protecting them from respectable fights, as their less skilled half would be massacred and quit instead of “HTFU” as they claim.

  9. #9
    Direct numbers will always result in abuse, but relativity or vague is better. I'm hoping, if FFXIV gets a parser, it will just have a range of descriptors if a DPS is doing what they should be doing. IE: If a DPS (Whatever class, specifically tailored to them) is doing awful, mediocre, or well for the content given. I think this is much better than giving out numbers, especially since ilvl lock is a thing.

  10. #10
    To put it bluntly that's exactly why. The entire concept of competing for top DPS isn't something the developers want to encourage, they allow parsing for your own progression and it's been shown that if parsing is discussed in private FC chat channels it doesn't get punished.
    Besides, without being on the nose numerically there are ways to circumvent this if you do want to tell someone they're not doing good for some reason. Cite enmity, or ability usage.

    And let's be honest here, can you really say, looking at WoW and FFXIV's communities side-by-side, they're really making the wrong choice? FFXIV has a nicer attitude than virtually any playerbase I've ever seen and while I don't think the lack of public parsing is solely to thank for that I don't think it plays a small part. It takes ammunition away from assholes, and I'm all for that.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by papajohn4 View Post
    We dont need e-peen competition. Find out the very low DPS is easy enough without any parse/meter...
    You can only tell when the overall dps is low, not which dps of the 2 or 4 isn't doing their job properly. Only a parser will let you know which person isn't dpsing properly (unless they make it painfully obvious, which isn't the case a lot of the time).

    It's easy to tell when a tank or healer isn't doing their job, it's not easy to tell which of the multiple dps aren't doing theirs unless you have something giving you numbers. I see dps meters as a necessity as long as you're not a dick about it. Most people aren't dicks about it luckily.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Xercin View Post
    It's easy to tell when a tank or healer isn't doing their job, it's not easy to tell which of the multiple dps aren't doing theirs unless you have something giving you numbers. I see dps meters as a necessity as long as you're not a dick about it. Most people aren't dicks about it luckily.
    If you know how the job works, a look at the party UI (you have all the time you need to do that when you are a PLD ) can tell you if they know how to play and for melees you can also look if they move from flank to rear or if they just stick in place.

    When all you see from a BLM is Fire 3 and Blizzard 3, you know.

  13. #13
    Banned Gandrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    Yes it is, according to SE guidelines. You think they're doing a subpar job of their role? Leave.
    why would i leave? i am not the problem. why should i take a 30min penalty because someone else isn't doing their job? shouldn't they be punished? I mean, that makes sense doesn't it?

    for as much as people complain about how its awesome where they have this thing at work where if you do your job really well that you get to do someone elses job too you'd think this topic would get more sympathy

    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    Because you can't kick dps without having knowledge about what dps is not up to par, unless you wanna name the person which again is against the rules and is "dps" shaming which SE doesn't want. It's really simple
    i came back to ffxiv a few weeks ago and was leveling my dragoon in sohm al. my damage all around is pretty good, stuff is dying when i lay into it. and because i am a dragoon, bard dps should be really good with me present. however i could tell this bard was doing horrendous damage... like i could have done more dps than him in item level 60 gear with my gae bolg

    i didn't have a parser then and i didn't have a parser when i was leveling my bard in the aery and i was grouped with a different bard either. He didn't have the dps to kill a sable price himself and was in like... CT gear. Ugh. As you could imagine, the dungeon was very long. the wipes were long. killing trash was long. being stuck in a sable price felt like waiting an eternity to die. it was awful.

    and well... i knew it was him because i dont do shit dps

    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    And let's be honest here, can you really say, looking at WoW and FFXIV's communities side-by-side, they're really making the wrong choice? FFXIV has a nicer attitude than virtually any playerbase I've ever seen and while I don't think the lack of public parsing is solely to thank for that I don't think it plays a small part. It takes ammunition away from assholes, and I'm all for that.
    well if the informed are assholes and the belligerently ignorant are a fresh breath of air in a barren land of toxicity, i'd rather be an asshole anyday. people really aren't polite once you start looking in their direction and just go the way any wow player would and get super defensive and upset about it.

    i remember 2.0 when dragoon combos would break and you wouldnt get buffs if you werent in position, say, if an enemy position were to suddenly change. asking a tank to stop moving so much would literally incite a mental breakdown or get you one of those super passive agressive tongue in cheek "go fuck yourself" moments.

    people are the same here as they are in wow.

  14. #14
    Pandaren Monk
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    Quote Originally Posted by Theprejudice View Post
    Because it's a dick move and creates a toxic atmosphere with people parsing logs constantly in chat to belitte other people, something wow suffers greatly from.
    I dunno how much WoW experience you have, but this really doesn't happen anywhere near to the extent you seem to think it is. It's months inbetween I see anyone randomly posting dps lists in chat. And if someone does post it, 9/10 times it's to say "look how good I am" instead of "look how bad player x is". And again, 9/10 times the group is gonna completely ignore what was posted.
    Last edited by Beace; 2017-05-20 at 11:06 AM.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    well if the informed are assholes and the belligerently ignorant are a fresh breath of air in a barren land of toxicity, i'd rather be an asshole anyday. people really aren't polite once you start looking in their direction and just go the way any wow player would and get super defensive and upset about it.
    They don't go the way a WoW player would, they go the way a sensible human being would. A lot of times when I see people give "advice" and merely cite low DPS they are not trying to teach the person they're criticizing.

    Allowing people to bring up numbers in public chats wouldn't benefit the game at all, because to be honest you already can if you're subtle about it, just don't say numbers. This keeps it from being a cultural thing within the game like it is in WoW.

    i remember 2.0 when dragoon combos would break and you wouldnt get buffs if you werent in position, say, if an enemy position were to suddenly change. asking a tank to stop moving so much would literally incite a mental breakdown or get you one of those super passive agressive tongue in cheek "go fuck yourself" moments.

    people are the same here as they are in wow.
    So you remember a time or two when a tank got upset at you speaking up. Okay, but without any context other than what you've said that's kind of a moot point. I'm not saying you were necessarily in the wrong but phrasing is pretty huge and "tank stop moving the fucking boss you window licker" will get taken a lot worse than "hey tank i need my positionals to get off can you try to keep from strafing as much?".

    I mean, nobody ever said that FFXIV's community didn't have shitty players, if they did then they didn't play FFXIV. However compare it to literally any other mainstream MMO out there and you can see a pretty significant difference.

  16. #16
    Banned Gandrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    So you remember a time or two when a tank got upset at you speaking up.
    last week a tank let me die because i ran a few feet ahead to get a couple more mobs for our bard to dps down and save time. when i called him out on it he started acting like you had to turn your head from side to side to see his whole dick. i ran pharos sirius for the first time in a few years and went the wrong way and the healer did not follow or heal me and got really upset when i mistakenly said this was the way to go up.

    i did grubal library hard for the first time as a dps the other day and barely even remembered the fight as a tank. died multiple times focusing too much on acquainting myself with new abilities and people were really rude to me. I even got accused of being afk every pull when i was doing better than or equal to dps to a player of the same class in better gear most of the dungeon.

    before hitting level 60 on my bard a mentor player (of all people) really grilled a bard in our group for not having wanderers minuet. when the dungeon was over i talked to them about it and apparently despite being level 59 they had not learned any of their HW abilities yet and i explained to them that they should go get them because they are the new foundation of bard dps and their damage wouldn't be competitive without it.

    Players in the ffxiv community may not be as whiny as wow players I'll give you that much but deep down many of them are all the same non-constructive shitty people lol.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Gandrake View Post
    last week a tank let me die because i ran a few feet ahead to get a couple more mobs for our bard to dps down and save time. when i called him out on it he started acting like you had to turn your head from side to side to see his whole dick. i ran pharos sirius for the first time in a few years and went the wrong way and the healer did not follow or heal me and got really upset when i mistakenly said this was the way to go up.

    i did grubal library hard for the first time as a dps the other day and barely even remembered the fight as a tank. died multiple times focusing too much on acquainting myself with new abilities and people were really rude to me. I even got accused of being afk every pull when i was doing better than or equal to dps to a player of the same class in better gear most of the dungeon.

    before hitting level 60 on my bard a mentor player (of all people) really grilled a bard in our group for not having wanderers minuet. when the dungeon was over i talked to them about it and apparently despite being level 59 they had not learned any of their HW abilities yet and i explained to them that they should go get them because they are the new foundation of bard dps and their damage wouldn't be competitive without it.

    Players in the ffxiv community may not be as whiny as wow players I'll give you that much but deep down many of them are all the same non-constructive shitty people lol.
    Well I mean, to be honest two of those were actually really understandable from the player's perspective with the context you've given.

    Tank letting you die? As someone who main-alt tanks, if I wasn't prepared for an extra pull do the same thing because honestly grabbing and holding aggro in this game can be an absolute bitch if mobs end up yoyoing and you're not ready for extra mobs.

    And as for the level 59 BRD not having Minuet...yeah I agree with the mentor player (although they should really not be a mentor). Why the everliving hell are you 59 without learning your abilities before doing a dungeon.

    But you're never going to get rid of shitbags in a game, but I could count four shitty things that happened in a month of playing WoW that were unquestionably bad. Of course people are still going to show their douchebag sides when stuff they just anticipate is farm content for everyone suddenly isn't, but I wouldn't say that makes the community bad and isn't an indicator of any kind of similarity between WoW and FFXIV's playerbase attitude.

  18. #18
    Banned Gandrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Irian View Post
    Tank letting you die? As someone who main-alt tanks, if I wasn't prepared for an extra pull do the same thing because honestly grabbing and holding aggro in this game can be an absolute bitch if mobs end up yoyoing and you're not ready for extra mobs.
    it was the vault. the three adds by the door past the first boss. oh god, six guys. you probably shouldn't be a tank if you can't tank 6 mobs considering what you dealt with only minutes beforehand. to do things like that denotes a severe level incompetence and narcissim if you do not even try to control the situation. it'd be different if they had tried, but they did not. i have never given up on getting aggro. that's just stupid. you shouldn't be a tank if you do that.

    at least not until you figure out how to change your tampon and hit unleash/flash/overpower and deal with it.

    me doing that for him just means he doesn't have to do all of the shenanigans to los the mage and slow the group down. instead, he just gets all shitty about it because of some moronic level of entitlement.

    I also never said the community was bad. I just said it's really not that different. If you think the wow community is bad... well, that's your own opinion. I think they whine a lot and people are too worried about what "the pros" are doing but it's like that in every community.

    for example, Monks are acting like the sky is falling because of Dragoon raid comp synergy when most of these people raid final bosses in full raid gear where the people maximizing every little detail are clearing the most content with the least amount of gear.
    Last edited by Gandrake; 2017-05-20 at 01:47 PM.

  19. #19
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    I would say it's because parsing creates a competitive environment in something that doesn't need to be competitive. Doing dungeons and whatever is a teamwork experience, not a competition. If parsing were to be used the teamwork flies off the window and there's people screaming at each other because they're not doing enough damage. I like the current community, I don't want to see it fall into toxic hell.

    I would rather it stay as it is.

  20. #20
    You are the embodiment of every reason there is opposition to parsing.

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