Poland's Prime Minister says country will accept no refugees as EU threatens them

[Nitro Fun]

No, next question.

Then you can deport them.

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According to german law, not helpin someone who struggles for his live is punishable by up to 5 years in jail. It's not technically murder, but "unterlassene Hilfeleistung" - denial of assistance, any yeah - its illegal.

Ridiculous law.

[Pannonian]

Then you can deport them.

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Ridiculous law.

I'm actually surprised that it's legal in the USA/Taipei...

[Nitro Fun]

I'm actually surprised that it's legal in the USA/Taipei...

Depends on where you are in USA. It's still ridiculous.

[Mayhem]

Letting them die on the shore is obviously what some people want. The problem is: this could be illegal.

There was an excellent article 2 years ago from on of the highest judges of germany which argues that letting people die can be considered murder:

http://www.zeit.de/gesellschaft/zeit...eer-strafrecht

Very interesting read (sadly in german)

Interesting indeed.

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Then you can deport them.

I have no idea why you quoted me the first time and i have even less of an idea why you quoted me now. Have i said somewhere that you can't deport people?

[Nitro Fun]

I have no idea why you quoted me the first time and i have even less of an idea why you quoted me now. Have i said somewhere that you can't deport people?

Because of your implication in this post:

Who do you think voted for to let them in? Should we just let them die ìn the Mediterranean and let greece and italy handle the washed up bodies?

That you have to let them in or they die.

[Mayhem]

Because of your implication in this post:



That you have to let them in or they die.

You kind of have to let them in first if you want to deport them later.

[Nitro Fun]

You kind of have to let them in first if you want to deport them later.

No, you detain them instantly and lock them up until deportation.

[Mayhem]

No, you detain them instantly and lock them up until deportation.

Look, to being able to detain them you still have to let them in first, unless of course you have a detention center right in the ocean.

[Nitro Fun]

Look, to being able to detain them you still have to let them in first, unless of course you have a detention center right in the ocean.

What country are letting them in? As far as I'm aware you need visas or other things that makes you eligible to be in a country to, you know, be let in. Arriving in a country without the proper arrangements in place doesn't mean you are being let in. It means you are entering without the countries' permission, which as far as I'm concerned should be grounds to allow lethal violence to be used against you if you do not comply.

[Mayhem]

What country are letting them in? As far as I'm aware you need visas or other things that makes you eligible to be in a country to, you know, be let in. Arriving in a country without the proper arrangements in place doesn't mean you are being let in. It means you are entering without the countries' permission, which as far as I'm concerned should be grounds to allow lethal violence to be used against you if you do not comply.

You would've loved east germany and their wall.

[Malacrass]

I assume the EU will wait until the next election in Poland, which is in about two years. Brexit negotiations should be "over" by then as well, at least when it comes to purely leaving the EU (disregarding any immediate trade partnership deals).

After that they need to evaluate what can be done about rogue members like Poland, who threaten to not sign treaties for unrelated reasons (like, not liking the face of Donald Dusk).
An official two-speed Europe will probably be the consequence of their behavior, and if they don't like it there is always [-exit].

[Acidbaron]

I assume the EU will wait until the next election in Poland, which is in about two years. Brexit negotiations should be "over" by then as well, at least when it comes to purely leaving the EU (disregarding any immediate trade partnership deals).

After that they need to evaluate what can be done about rogue members like Poland, who threaten to not sign treaties for unrelated reasons (like, not liking the face of Donald Dusk).
An official two-speed Europe will probably be the consequence of their behavior, and if they don't like it there is always [-exit].

A two speed europe is a term coined for the Euro market where southern countries need a different approach than the north. It is not really applicable to countries who have the intend to reap all the benefits but refuse to contribute when requested. These political parties won't survive an european exit vote, let alone an actual exit. There are whole towns dependent on the income of eastern european immigrants working in the west sending money back home.

Brexit won't be over in 2 years as the people in power there have not stopped but upped their antics and political games. Since it never happened before they are banking on the idea of endless extensions.

[Lilija]

This is kinda silly. Even if Poland takes those people in how they will make them stay here? Because middle eastern migrants are hardly interested in staying in a country without strong social benefits. So this is a lot of talk about an irrelevant issue. Polish government is just trying to show off how "independent" they are. It's rather dumb position because it will end with Poland losing some of the EU's help for sure. Much better solution would be to actually tackle the real issues among the EU leaders. But that would require smart people and Poland's current government lacks that for sure.

The real issue is that no one is doing any serious screening of people coming here. Most people wouldn't oppose taking in people who run from war. But Europe simply cannot take all the economic migrants all at once. It's like anyone could possibly take in 1 or 2 homeless people into their home but taking 50 would be rather impossible.

The nationalistic trends rising in Europe aren't because of taking people in but because EU is completely irresponsible in the how they are dealing with the issue.

[Malacrass]

A two speed europe is a term coined for the Euro market where southern countries need a different approach than the north. It is not really applicable to countries who have the intend to reap all the benefits but refuse to contribute when requested. These political parties won't survive an european exit vote, let alone an actual exit. There are whole towns dependent on the income of eastern european immigrants working in the west sending money back home

That's correct, but it's also more than obvious that several EU members want to *evolve" the idea of a two speed Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...o-speed-europe

And honestly, that's the only way the EU will be able to function. Especially with figures like Orban in power, who openly admits that his aim is to erode Europe from within, while reaping all the benefits of course.
You either want to join the club or you don't, and if an -exit is not wanted, the alternative could be a second rate Europe formed out of the Visegrad 4. And I firmly believe that's the plan behind the mentioned "two speed Europe", even if the term used to have a different meaning.

Brexit won't be over in 2 years as the people in power there have not stopped but upped their antics and political games. Since it never happened before they are banking on the idea of endless extensions.

Hard to say how it will go. At the very least I expect the very basic formalities to be decided by then, like the legal status of those who work and live in the EU / Brtiain.

[Mehrunes]

I'm surprised that Szydło didn't bullshit about 2 million Ukrainian refugees that Poland totally took (if you gloss over the part where the number suffers from millionfold inflation).

Most people don't know or don't care but Poland has accepted literally hundreds of thousands of migrants/refugees from Ukraine.
And Poland has helped them. And it has not asked for help from other EU states.

And EU can't do shit about this either. This is a decision made by sovereign nation state.

God, Brussels is beginning to resemble Soviet Union more and more. One degree deviation from the autocratic norm and they flip out.

Then again, if she doesn't, someone will always bullshit it in her defense. Poland took just a few refugees from Ukraine (at the time she bullshitted it the first time at the end of 2015, Poland took only two refugees from Ukraine in that year). The rest are nothing more than economic migrants, which isn't anything new, exciting, specific to Poland (there are million Polish people working in western Europe for god's sake) or, despite what Szydło may delude herself about while she recites the gospel of "average MP" Kaczyński and Rydzyk, actually relevant in this discussion.

And yay, Poland is a sovereign state. No waii, who'd have thunk?! You're saying Poland is not a vassal state of EU but just a member state? Oh, wait, being a member state carries obligations that Poland can't handwave away with "decision by a sovereign nation state". An organization "flipping out" because a member doesn't fulfill their obligations? What a surprise!

Also, don't use words you don't understand. If EU was an autocracy, then who's the individual that's the autocrat? At best it'd be authoritarian or totalitarian, that'd still be euromyth rambling without any basis in reality, since EU is governed through democratic means

Shame on them, I hope the people of Poland are more reasonable than their government

It's not like this government elected itself (though the ruling party would love if things worked that way). Recently even the biggest opposition party, the one that ruled prior to the last elections, picked up a no refugee policy to steal voters from the current ruling party, even though they were in favor of it (to a degree) while they held power and negotiated the amounts with EU.

Who else would be living there?

Well, there's the spirit of paranoia and the embodiment of conspiracy theories, though they tend to overlap with some of the people.

Well, across the whole 20th century, polish people fled to american countries by the hundreds of thousands, running from poverty, hunger and war. Several countries have polish colonies to this day, such as Argentina, Uruguay and Brazil.

I love the irony in all of this.

Hell, there are Polish villages in Turkey (made during the partitions) and Iran (made during WWII by refugees). Both are full of "filthy infidels", with Iran being an Islamic Republic and Erdogan aspiring to turn Turkey back into a Sultanate.

[Acidbaron]

That's correct, but it's also more than obvious that several EU members want to *evolve" the idea of a two speed Europe.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...o-speed-europe

And honestly, that's the only way the EU will be able to function. Especially with figures like Orban in power, who openly admits that his aim is to erode Europe from within, while reaping all the benefits of course.
You either want to join the club or you don't, and if an -exit is not wanted, the alternative could be a second rate Europe formed out of the Visegrad 4. And I firmly believe that's the plan behind the mentioned "two speed Europe", even if the term used to have a different meaning.



Hard to say how it will go. At the very least I expect the very basic formalities to be decided by then, like the legal status of those who work and live in the EU / Brtiain.

There's a discussion to be had what the EU should be and that will take place over months if not years.

Orban in particular, is a lot of talk, he backs down often when he faces pressure from the EU. He is facing removal from the political fraction he belongs to in the EU what would greatly decrease his already limited voice he has when the christian democrats want nothing to do with him anymore and it will most likely be the start of the end of his political career. Identity politics become a non-issue when political instability creates economic uncertainty.

I don't see our structure changing based on such political figures, i see them changing for other reasons and such players to be simply be put in a position they have no voice, hardly any power on the great stage. People still remember how things where before in the EU in those regions, it hasn't been that long since communist rule ended there.

[Mehrunes]

You dont get all the benefits with none of the responsabilities, Poland.

Polish government: "It's an attack on our sovereignty and a breach of the fundamental values our Minister of Foreign Relations and Minister of Justice just pulled out of their ass."

[Malacrass]

This is kinda silly. Even if Poland takes those people in how they will make them stay here? Because middle eastern migrants are hardly interested in staying in a country without strong social benefits. So this is a lot of talk about an irrelevant issue.

The idea is that those who don't want to stay in Poland and jump the border can expect tougher sanctions, maybe even deportation. It would be much easier to filter the bad apples that way.
Apart from that, no one ever demanded that the East Block takes in an as many refugees as the wealthy EU members. It would be a symbolic gesture more than anything. A display of unity during a tough situation.
Though that also has to be said, it's not like Western Europe was the shining example of solidarity in the past as well....

[Mehrunes]

The entire structure of EU is autocratic. And increasingly, hostile to the idea of nation state. It hates, hates, absolutely hates countries who still insist on governing their internal affairs.

We see this with Greece, Poland, Hungary and other countries.

You do realize the structure of the EU is created in the image of continental Europe's model of governance? Autocratic, democratic, what's the difference, lel. Unless you think European countries are all autocracies, in which case hey, at least you'd be consistent in your ignorance. Also, it's almost as if EU member states ceded some competences to the EU and took upon themselves the obligation to follow EU law in even more areas upon joining the EU. Whoa, the magic of international organizations.

Oh, you mean all of those countries with corrupt, incompetent governments that consistently cause economic problems for greater Europe with their corruption and incompetence?

Good riddance. Greece would be vastly better off under rule from Brussels.

What economic problems did Poland create for EU?

[ati87]

This is kinda silly. Even if Poland takes those people in how they will make them stay here? Because middle eastern migrants are hardly interested in staying in a country without strong social benefits. So this is a lot of talk about an irrelevant issue. Polish government is just trying to show off how "independent" they are. It's rather dumb position because it will end with Poland losing some of the EU's help for sure. Much better solution would be to actually tackle the real issues among the EU leaders. But that would require smart people and Poland's current government lacks that for sure.

The real issue is that no one is doing any serious screening of people coming here. Most people wouldn't oppose taking in people who run from war. But Europe simply cannot take all the economic migrants all at once. It's like anyone could possibly take in 1 or 2 homeless people into their home but taking 50 would be rather impossible.

The nationalistic trends rising in Europe aren't because of taking people in but because EU is completely irresponsible in the how they are dealing with the issue.

Can you please take away all of those polish in the Netherlands then? Pretty sure I could use the same bullshit you just wrote and just apply to the Polish