Who cares? First, as people have noted, this happens. People in the guilds decide to do other things etc and guilds collapse. None of the guilds that are top 10 now existed when I started in TBC and I would bet that none of the TBC era raiders from those top guilds are still in the top guilds in Legion.
Others will bubble up and take top spots and if that doesn't happen? So? Let's say all top 100 guilds quit. Oh no, 2000 people quit! Wait, that's a tiny drop I the bucket. The fact is that virtually no one who plays normally even knows about these. I would bet that if Mythic disappeared we'd be fine - I'm not advocating that, but this community has a massively skewed take on the game simply because of who hangs out here.
"We got caught breaking the EULA multiple times over the course of the expansion. Better save face and quit the game."
Nothing of value lost.
There are no bathrooms, only Zuul.
I think most people are looking over the fact that many "top guilds" have a lot of WoW veterans (long-time players). Most of them are getting bored of WoW at this point or have more real-life commitments than they used to and just don't have time for hardcore raiding anymore. They're literally growing up and moving on.
That on top of the fact that less people are playing MMORPGs in general, causing there to be a lack of available skilled raiders, means a lot of top guilds just can't compete anymore.
That has more of an effect on the situation than mechanics like AP grind and what not IMO.
Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.
With the overall player base declining it's only logical and natural that it also has an impact on high end raiding guilds as well. I guess that more and more high end raiders seem to realize that investing weeks and months of your time into an extreme niche playstyle is simply not worth the effort and effectively a massive waste of time and/or they're simply quitting for the same reasons the average player does (RL, lack of interest, WoW not fun anymore, friends quitting, ...)
If anything, high end raiding is shrinking itself back to healthy and sustainable levels. This would not be a bad thing actually.
#MakeBlizzardGreatAgain
He's specifically talking about WoW streaming.
Majority of viewers prefer relevant / current things, not a game that's almost a teenager.
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Bull-fucking-shit. And fuck you for even having the guts to say that. We're not even halfway through expansion yet and it's already bigger than BC and Cata.(maybe even MoP)
Infracted
Last edited by Wilderness; 2017-05-21 at 12:30 PM.
Second to the "Emo much" statement. While I personally feel we are well past the half way point of this xpac, Legion is on par with Burning Crusade as far as content and a close second for difficulty. Dungeon difficulty could be increased some, but with m+ its hard to gauge.
I would leave your buddy Jesus out of the convo though.
I don't agree though.
Legion gives the illusion of content because there's a lot of repeating in play. World quests, M+, LFR, Normal, Heroic, Mythic.
If you scrutinise what the content actually is, it's nothing more than repeating the same thing over and over again; World quests aren't interesting and are basically all the same. Dungeons are all the same, considering tactics don't matter but merely the composition that has the best AE capabilities. Raid content is trivialised by one small step in tiers. Seriously, EN doesn't even matter anymore. Compare that to BC where people were still doing Gruul's lair for the DST and guilds actually progressed through SSC and TK before setting foot in BT. Then we have our most recent 'content': The broken shore. Seriously, who would even call that content? It's just another bland island with the same boring world quests we've been doing since Legion's release.
In short: Legion is genius. Not because it's fun, but because it has people running in circles following multiple carrots on a stick; AP, Legendaries, M+ gear, Raid gear.
I've stopped doing world quests and every other thing people do to "farm" variable X a long time ago. I only do what's fun to me. Today it might be an M+, tomorrow a few BGs, the day after a transmog run in some old raid. But grinding, no. Never.
Last edited by nocturnus; 2017-05-20 at 11:15 PM.
People still run M Ursoc for BTI, and M Helya drops + Guarm trinket constitute many BiS pieces for many specs.
Guys, The Beatles split up. It's over. Music is dead. There is nobody else that will ever make music again.
The content is definately there, question is, do you like it or not.
How much i like BC, i don't know if you can even argue it had more content then Legion.
TBC PVE content
10 levels worth of leveling content.
A good set of dungeons
4 Raid tiers (for a total of 16 10 man bosses and 33 25 man bosses).
these are imho TBC strongest points as it was all good content.
However outside of Raiding / Dungeons there was not alot to do in terms of max level content, a few rep farms, however running dungeons would also farm you the most of the reps. Nether Drake, Sporregar, Skyguard and Ogri'la had some daily Quest content combined with a few other daily quests that was basicly the only outdoor content until the isle opened, except of course for farming stuff.
With Legion we will have atleast
10 levels worth of leveling content
a Good set of dungeons (and the M+ system)
3 Raidtiers (29 bosses confirmed over the first 2 tiers, 1 tier to be confirmed atleast with Argus)
While legion has vastly more outdoor content. WQ system is alot bigger then TBC dailies system. Alot more storyline content with the full suramar zone, Orderhall campaign and illidan lore stuff, Class quest content, Brokenshore (altough i agree its lacking), Class challenges, Pet Battles, "hidden mounts" content, and probably i forget some stuff i dislike.
I don't think atleast you can urgue in any way that Legion has less content overall then TBC. It can however have less content that you like to do. I mean not all ppl like to do pet battles, do WQ's and that stuff.
Last edited by chronia; 2017-05-21 at 09:59 AM.
TBC had 7 raids, gear tiers have nothing to do with content.
Karazhan
SSC
TK
MH
BT
SWPT
Zul Aman
Regardless, it's obvious that Legion has most content when you compare sheer quantity. But, imho, quality matters more. Can you consider world quests content? I don't; they're boring, trivial and only done for AP and the emissary chest.
M+ is great and I have been talking about such a system since tbc. The only thing I think Blizzard failed on (massively) is the timer (which they acknowledged and will be changing) and the focus on trash which is nigh unanimously considered the least fun thing about dungeons and raids.
Anyway, Legion is a nice xpac. But with the nice, came so, so much shit. It's a shame.
Last edited by nocturnus; 2017-05-21 at 01:35 PM.
Boomkin/Mage/Whatever in Fatsharkyes
This is why you are not in the position of getting world #1 *joke*
Instead of pumping endless AP in one char, it makes a lot more sense of course to bring all your raid relevant twinks also to concordance 1. But it should be quite unavoidable to get somewhat around paragon 6 to 7 automatically on your main char at the time ToS opens.
But I dont want to read something like "the other guilds members have +3 traits more on average, thats why we loose" in the next race.
Last edited by mmoca163a27034; 2017-05-22 at 07:42 AM.
You've basically described all wow expansions. All wow expansions make you run through the same shit a thousand times. Legion just has more variety. You had 20 dailies per patch? Now you get 50-100 dailies per patch. You had a tiny storyline per patch? Now you get sometimes a good one with some sexy rewards, sometimes a bad one with some sexy rewards (arcanist manasaber/class mount respectively). You had a huge amazing raid? You have a huge amazing raid. You had dungeons with stagnant boring loot you had to run a thousand times? Same now, only this time some of the dungeon loot might be BiS and the dungeons feel more varied and sometimes less or more difficult depending on the affixes. Pvp? More rewards than ever with the new prestige system. So Legion has had more content than any other expansion, aside from maybe MoP, but it might do at the end of its lifespan. Also, one more thing about raids, they might have 4 difficulties now, but nothing stops you from raiding only one. I only raid HC and some mythic, soon I will drop HC. Before I was doing normal with a bit of HC.
Unless you are cutting edge world first, you don't need to farm all 4 difficulties on ALL raids every week to stay competitive.
Remember it's a PROC with 200/400 extra stat points, that's like 60 extra stat points at best. Having bad luck with drops or slacking with m+ will make bigger difference. And for majority of fights individual skill is still far more important. With individual skill i also mean being able to squeeze out the most dps possible in different situations.
Even back in ToV hardcore guilds didn't completely nolife artifacts. While some had 35 others had 40-45. They could have forced everyone to play 24/7 and be like 50 traits, but they didn't. Those traits had far greater impact on dps, so if it didn't make sense to nolife it then, it certainly doesn't now.
Last edited by barackohmama; 2017-05-22 at 08:32 AM.